eli griggs
Well-known
I just took a good look at a Kodak Tourist F12.5 - F32 I found while cleaning up a recently passed Cousins' house and it is in really nice shape, with a supple bellows and no fungus or rust. Other than the fold-out shutter 'button' needing a bit of exercising to smooth it out, the shutter and lens are in great shape and I'm wondering about the "I" setting speed.
The manual suggest using "Sunny 16" with Plus-X so I'm thinking the shutter was around 100-125 but elsewhere I'm seeing a different number about half or less than that, about a 40th or so.
Starting from the position that the shutter is in good, factory condition, what would you recommend as a starting point with Plus-X with mfg. iso?
Cheers
The manual suggest using "Sunny 16" with Plus-X so I'm thinking the shutter was around 100-125 but elsewhere I'm seeing a different number about half or less than that, about a 40th or so.
Starting from the position that the shutter is in good, factory condition, what would you recommend as a starting point with Plus-X with mfg. iso?
Cheers
oftheherd
Veteran
Where are you finding another number? I seem to recall that those old cameras that used an I and T were usually at about 1/25 or at most 1/50.
dmr
Registered Abuser
Curiosity got me here ...
My dad had a Tourist, as well as a Monitor. The Tourist I remember had the "old style" shutter speeds like 1/50 1/100.
Looking on Camerapedia, yes, the Tourist was available in a single speed fixed-focus version. Here's a brief cut-paste:
That looks like the version you have.
The things I most remember about the Tourist are the shutter release in the fold-out door, and the click-once-to-open, click-again-to-close time exposure, as opposed to the more common "bulb" time exposure.
Camerapedia article is here:
http://www.camerapedia.org/wiki/Kodak_Tourist
My dad had a Tourist, as well as a Monitor. The Tourist I remember had the "old style" shutter speeds like 1/50 1/100.
Looking on Camerapedia, yes, the Tourist was available in a single speed fixed-focus version. Here's a brief cut-paste:
That looks like the version you have.
The things I most remember about the Tourist are the shutter release in the fold-out door, and the click-once-to-open, click-again-to-close time exposure, as opposed to the more common "bulb" time exposure.
Camerapedia article is here:
http://www.camerapedia.org/wiki/Kodak_Tourist
eli griggs
Well-known
oftheherd, it was probably someplace like Camerapedia, I can't remember which sites gave similar numbers as I did a lot of surfing while looking but the point I'm trying to nail down is why is Kodak saying in the manual to use f16 with Verichrome or Plus-X under average daylight conditions if the shutter is only 1/50th. Sunny 16 with Plus-X would indicate 1/100-1/125th second. It's not critical as I'll bracket the aperture on the first roll but it is curious, no?
Cheers
Cheers
dmr
Registered Abuser
I don't know about 1940s-50s vintage Plus-X, but the Verichrome they are referring to is probably not the Verichrome Pan of the 1960s which was ASA 125. It was most likely the Verichrome ortho, which was something like ASA 50.
I have a feeling that the Plus-X that was around when the camera came out was lower than the 70s vintage Plus-X I knew, which was 125.
eli griggs
Well-known
"I don't know about 1940s-50s vintage Plus-X, but the Verichrome they are referring to is probably not the Verichrome Pan of the 1960s which was ASA 125. It was most likely the Verichrome ortho, which was something like ASA 50."
Now that makes a lot of sense and a quick check on Google seems to confirm your hunch, Plus-X was rated slower than ASA 125.
You know, I would have not thought to check that it was once rated at 50 ASA, instead I just assumed it was always the same basic product. I guess that's just one more lesson learned in the use of vintage gear and a mystery (to me at least) solved.
Thanks for pointing me in the right direction dmr.
Now that makes a lot of sense and a quick check on Google seems to confirm your hunch, Plus-X was rated slower than ASA 125.
You know, I would have not thought to check that it was once rated at 50 ASA, instead I just assumed it was always the same basic product. I guess that's just one more lesson learned in the use of vintage gear and a mystery (to me at least) solved.
Thanks for pointing me in the right direction dmr.
oftheherd
Veteran
Don't feel bad. I know better. I have seen some of that old film as welll as having read about it. I didn't make the connection either. That's what's nice about RFF. There are people here who do make the connection when those of us who should, don't. Actually, we all support each other that way I guess. Thanks for the reality check dmr.
huffy49
Member
Verichrome Pan speed rating.
Verichrome Pan speed rating.
Until 1954 or so, Verichrome Pan was rated as having an ASA exposure index of 80 (daylight) and 64 (tungsten). With the revision of American Standard PH 2.5 - 1954, that rating was raised to ASA 125. Most, if not all, other films were similarly re-rated at that time. For example, Tri-X, which was heretofore rated ASA 200, was changed to the ASA 400 rating we've all used since. THERE WERE NO CHANGES TO THE FILMS THAT CAUSED THESE RATING CHANGES. The only thing that changed was the American Stndards Association (ASA) definition of film speed. The new standard used a lower safety factor in the basic exposure level. The old standard recommended an exposure 2.5X that needed to produce negatives of the highest quality; the new standard reduced that approximately 1.5X, depending on the film. Basically, the powers that be realized that the old standard was causing films to be overexposed to the point that in some cases, the resulting image was less than optimal.
Up to this point, Kodak film data sheets had actually recommended the possibility that "the exposure should be cut in half, in some caes even more" from the indicated settings of an exposure meter.
Given the above, using the sunny 16 rule with that old Tourist would be about right for the old ASA ratings.
BTW, the article on the Tourist in Camerpedia is one that I authored, so you might want to take it with a grain of salt <G>...
Verichrome Pan speed rating.
Until 1954 or so, Verichrome Pan was rated as having an ASA exposure index of 80 (daylight) and 64 (tungsten). With the revision of American Standard PH 2.5 - 1954, that rating was raised to ASA 125. Most, if not all, other films were similarly re-rated at that time. For example, Tri-X, which was heretofore rated ASA 200, was changed to the ASA 400 rating we've all used since. THERE WERE NO CHANGES TO THE FILMS THAT CAUSED THESE RATING CHANGES. The only thing that changed was the American Stndards Association (ASA) definition of film speed. The new standard used a lower safety factor in the basic exposure level. The old standard recommended an exposure 2.5X that needed to produce negatives of the highest quality; the new standard reduced that approximately 1.5X, depending on the film. Basically, the powers that be realized that the old standard was causing films to be overexposed to the point that in some cases, the resulting image was less than optimal.
Up to this point, Kodak film data sheets had actually recommended the possibility that "the exposure should be cut in half, in some caes even more" from the indicated settings of an exposure meter.
Given the above, using the sunny 16 rule with that old Tourist would be about right for the old ASA ratings.
BTW, the article on the Tourist in Camerpedia is one that I authored, so you might want to take it with a grain of salt <G>...
eli griggs
Well-known
Thanks for the additional information huffy49. It's almost funny that Tri-X was first rated at 200 and then 400 as I expose it at 200, like so many others have done for many years.
Just to be clear, using a figure of 1/80th at F16 should be the correct starting point for this early Tourist?
Cheers
Just to be clear, using a figure of 1/80th at F16 should be the correct starting point for this early Tourist?
Cheers
huffy49
Member
Eli:
Given that the Kodon shutter on your Tourist was allegedly about 1/50th (it could vary appreciably), I'd recommend shooting Tri-X at F/32 on the "I" setting in bright sunlight. That ought to get you pretty close.
John
Given that the Kodon shutter on your Tourist was allegedly about 1/50th (it could vary appreciably), I'd recommend shooting Tri-X at F/32 on the "I" setting in bright sunlight. That ought to get you pretty close.
John
athos
Still like film
I have a 25.5 Tourist and a shutter speed tester. It runs 1/50 - 1/60th, uneven but never above or below that range. I do not know what was supposed to be when new.
eli griggs
Well-known
Thanks athos, I am using 1/50th as my number and if I ever get the lens flipped and back on the body, we'll see what it can do. 
Cheers
Cheers