eleskin
Well-known
Hi Al,
I was online and i read your article about how you adapted a Spiratone to fit your Visoflex system. I am very interested in this, especially in a hard economy. Now there are some variations in Spiratone 400mm lens designs. I would like to get the latest model made. They are cheap on ebay. My question is do you have any photos on how you put this together, and how well has your mount stayed on the lens. I recall that you said you used epoxy to glue on the mount. I have used epoxy in the past for various projects and have found sometimes the bond fails, maybe J&B weld
would be stronger. I guess you do not use the mount on the Spiratone when you do this in that if the glue fails, your camera will be on the ground. You probably use the mount on the Visoflex. I would love to see some of the photos you have taken with this lens!
All the best,
Ed
I was online and i read your article about how you adapted a Spiratone to fit your Visoflex system. I am very interested in this, especially in a hard economy. Now there are some variations in Spiratone 400mm lens designs. I would like to get the latest model made. They are cheap on ebay. My question is do you have any photos on how you put this together, and how well has your mount stayed on the lens. I recall that you said you used epoxy to glue on the mount. I have used epoxy in the past for various projects and have found sometimes the bond fails, maybe J&B weld
would be stronger. I guess you do not use the mount on the Spiratone when you do this in that if the glue fails, your camera will be on the ground. You probably use the mount on the Visoflex. I would love to see some of the photos you have taken with this lens!
All the best,
Ed
Al Kaplan
Veteran
Hi Ed, the lens I used was a Sterling-Howard Tele-Astranar but there were a bunch of 400/6.3 T-mount lenses out there selling for about forty bucks back then, including the Spiratone. On mine I can unscrew the front barrel from just in front of the focusing mount. The front of the lens turns as you focus it. The pre-set diaphragm is behind the focusing section.
The front barrel has quite a long threaded section, so you can shorten the threaded section a fair amount and still have thread left.
You'll need a hacksaw, a half round file, maybe some medium grit emory paper and/or a large sharpening stone, plus the lens and the Leica M adapter (and just maybe a shot of bourbon).
OK, the front glass is a positive cemented pair of elements with a folal length of maybe 250 to 300mm give or take. The rear glass is a negative lens, essentialy a "tele-extender" to make the thing into a 400mm.
If we extend the entire lens away from the film it'll be focussed closer. We can compensate for that by moving just the front elements back closer to the rear group. Once you've determined that there's enough screw thread to do that it's time to swallow the bourbon and grab the file. Remove the T-mount adapter from the rear of the lens. T thread is 41mm, same diameter as Pentax but finer threads. The M adapter has 39mm Leica thread inside. Using the flat side of the file remove most all of the thread from the rear of the lens. The aluminum is fairly soft and this should go fast. Neatness doesn't count but do leave some semblence of thread. Now using the round side of the file attack the thread inside the Leica M adapter. The chrome is HARD but you'll soon be cutting through brass.
What you want to do is get enough of the threads out of the adapter and off of the lens so that you can cross-thread screw the M adapter onto the the lens. Don't kill yourself. Just a touch of friction is what you're seeking. Use your camera or Visoflex as a "wrench". During final assembly you can allign things so the focusing scale is on top.
The final step is shortening the front tube. Use the hacksaw, file, or for final adjustment the sharpening stone or Emory paper. Put the stone or paper on a flat surface and hold the lens in one hand as you move it back and forth, rotating it every few strokes. Kreep trying it assembled to check when you've achieved infinity focus.
Use regular epoxy, not "five minute", and it doesn't take much, on what's left of those screw threads. The wet epoxy acts as a lube. You can then mount the lens on your Visoflex, turning it until the distance engravings are on top. You can even drill a tiny hole near the butt end of the lens and glue a red dot in place. Stand in front of a mirror holding the finished rig in one hand, a shot glass in the other, congratulate yourself and have a final swig of that bourbon. Hell, have one for me too.
SOMEPLACE on the 'net is a photo I shot with the lens of a Christian rock group at sunset, late 1960's. They were standing on a little rise, sun behind them, and they used it on the cover of a record back when that meant 12" vinyl. If I can find it I'll edit a link in here.
The front barrel has quite a long threaded section, so you can shorten the threaded section a fair amount and still have thread left.
You'll need a hacksaw, a half round file, maybe some medium grit emory paper and/or a large sharpening stone, plus the lens and the Leica M adapter (and just maybe a shot of bourbon).
OK, the front glass is a positive cemented pair of elements with a folal length of maybe 250 to 300mm give or take. The rear glass is a negative lens, essentialy a "tele-extender" to make the thing into a 400mm.
If we extend the entire lens away from the film it'll be focussed closer. We can compensate for that by moving just the front elements back closer to the rear group. Once you've determined that there's enough screw thread to do that it's time to swallow the bourbon and grab the file. Remove the T-mount adapter from the rear of the lens. T thread is 41mm, same diameter as Pentax but finer threads. The M adapter has 39mm Leica thread inside. Using the flat side of the file remove most all of the thread from the rear of the lens. The aluminum is fairly soft and this should go fast. Neatness doesn't count but do leave some semblence of thread. Now using the round side of the file attack the thread inside the Leica M adapter. The chrome is HARD but you'll soon be cutting through brass.
What you want to do is get enough of the threads out of the adapter and off of the lens so that you can cross-thread screw the M adapter onto the the lens. Don't kill yourself. Just a touch of friction is what you're seeking. Use your camera or Visoflex as a "wrench". During final assembly you can allign things so the focusing scale is on top.
The final step is shortening the front tube. Use the hacksaw, file, or for final adjustment the sharpening stone or Emory paper. Put the stone or paper on a flat surface and hold the lens in one hand as you move it back and forth, rotating it every few strokes. Kreep trying it assembled to check when you've achieved infinity focus.
Use regular epoxy, not "five minute", and it doesn't take much, on what's left of those screw threads. The wet epoxy acts as a lube. You can then mount the lens on your Visoflex, turning it until the distance engravings are on top. You can even drill a tiny hole near the butt end of the lens and glue a red dot in place. Stand in front of a mirror holding the finished rig in one hand, a shot glass in the other, congratulate yourself and have a final swig of that bourbon. Hell, have one for me too.
SOMEPLACE on the 'net is a photo I shot with the lens of a Christian rock group at sunset, late 1960's. They were standing on a little rise, sun behind them, and they used it on the cover of a record back when that meant 12" vinyl. If I can find it I'll edit a link in here.
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eleskin
Well-known
Al,
Thank you so much for your information. Very useful indeed! When I get the parts, I will post some pics of this lens as I work on it. This should be fun. I hacked a Polaroid 250 to become a 4x5 film camera, so this job should be right for me. Best of all is thee fact that this stuff can be cheap to make!
Ed
PS: I had a glass of red wine my wife's father made (they are from northern Portugal) while reading your information!
Thank you so much for your information. Very useful indeed! When I get the parts, I will post some pics of this lens as I work on it. This should be fun. I hacked a Polaroid 250 to become a 4x5 film camera, so this job should be right for me. Best of all is thee fact that this stuff can be cheap to make!
Ed
PS: I had a glass of red wine my wife's father made (they are from northern Portugal) while reading your information!
Al Kaplan
Veteran
Ed, i have no idea where you live but you owe me a bowl of kale soup and a linguisa sandwich (Your wife will know what I'm talking about.) Good luck with the lens! I forgot to mention that by rearranging the spacing like that you'll end up with perhaps a 425mm lens or there abouts. You'll also lose a tiny fraction of an f/stop, not enough to notice.
I grew up in New Bedford, Massachusettes which has a huge Portuguese population.
I grew up in New Bedford, Massachusettes which has a huge Portuguese population.
eleskin
Well-known
Al,
I have been to Miami alot (My father lives in West Palm Bech, I live in Allentown Pa), I wish I could buy you a cup of soup and a corned beef on rye at the Rascal House. Pitty they tore that down!!!!
I have been to Miami alot (My father lives in West Palm Bech, I live in Allentown Pa), I wish I could buy you a cup of soup and a corned beef on rye at the Rascal House. Pitty they tore that down!!!!
Al Kaplan
Veteran
Eleskin, Yup, that generation of Jews who kept the Rascal House, Pumpernicks, Wolfies, etc. going for half a century have died off. There's still a place near here that has great corned beef on rye but no kaiser rolls, no stainless steel bowls of sour kraut, pickled tomatos, or half sour pickles, and no hot pastrami. Now it's the ederly Cubans who are dying off, and Cuban restaurants are being replaced with Central American, Colombian, Peruvian, etc. The middle aged Cubans complain about it and the younger Cubans eat at Burger King or Pizza Hut.
Next time you're down this way let's meet up someplace. You can check out my 400mm and fondle a very rare variant of the Visoflex II.
Next time you're down this way let's meet up someplace. You can check out my 400mm and fondle a very rare variant of the Visoflex II.
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fotobiblios
Established
Great dialogue -- I used the Spiratone on an slr in the early 70s -- excellent.
I'm currently adapting some weird lenses to visoflex (Viso1 on a Leotax and Viso4 on a Hexar RF). Best results - V4 plus miscellaneous adapter plus Leica focus tube plus medium format enlarging lens - v sharp for close up also goes to infinity.
Next project -- to get 1950s/60s tele-Hexars 400f5.6 and 1000mmf8 to work -- the 400 has almost the correct adapter and focus tube already so I believe it was originally made for a mirror box.
My equivalent favourite sandwich was salt beef on rye with gherkin and English mustard from a couple of ancient Jewish boxing club/showbiz cafes in London - now gone, but I found a replacement lebanese/jewish place --not quite as good , but will do -- note -- quite different from salt beef I had in NYC -- the London version is warm, cut thick and moist -- mmm.
Danny
I'm currently adapting some weird lenses to visoflex (Viso1 on a Leotax and Viso4 on a Hexar RF). Best results - V4 plus miscellaneous adapter plus Leica focus tube plus medium format enlarging lens - v sharp for close up also goes to infinity.
Next project -- to get 1950s/60s tele-Hexars 400f5.6 and 1000mmf8 to work -- the 400 has almost the correct adapter and focus tube already so I believe it was originally made for a mirror box.
My equivalent favourite sandwich was salt beef on rye with gherkin and English mustard from a couple of ancient Jewish boxing club/showbiz cafes in London - now gone, but I found a replacement lebanese/jewish place --not quite as good , but will do -- note -- quite different from salt beef I had in NYC -- the London version is warm, cut thick and moist -- mmm.
Danny
Al Kaplan
Veteran
I found the picture of me holding the M with the Visoflex II-S and the customized 400mm Tele-Astranar. I bought the hood second hand. It has no markings on it other than chipps and scuffs on the paint. I also picked up a chrome Canon lenscap that's a perfect fit for the front of the hood. The evil yellow neckstrap is a ca 1980 Nikon nylon strap. The photo was shot with my Bessa L and 15mm Heliar combo in my left hand on Kodak 200.
Also, while "rebuilding" the lens I reversed the tripod mount on the lens for better balance with the heavy M/Visoflex combination.
http://bp0.blogger.com/_b7J54W1JOoc/Rx_U-epW54I/AAAAAAAAAoc/51d6uEwZtpQ/s1600-h/2.jpg
Also, while "rebuilding" the lens I reversed the tripod mount on the lens for better balance with the heavy M/Visoflex combination.
http://bp0.blogger.com/_b7J54W1JOoc/Rx_U-epW54I/AAAAAAAAAoc/51d6uEwZtpQ/s1600-h/2.jpg
jan normandale
Film is the other way
Al, about the lens... thass crazy! ;D
New Bedford, down the road from Fall River. Both also had large French Canadian populations from the mills. The 'portys' were fishing. Anyway chorizo sausages come here from Fall River and New Bedford via a Frenchie who now lives in Canada 'ou son frere' who lives in New Bedford. Interestingly there is also a large base of Portugese here in Toronto from the mainland as well as from the Acores
New Bedford, down the road from Fall River. Both also had large French Canadian populations from the mills. The 'portys' were fishing. Anyway chorizo sausages come here from Fall River and New Bedford via a Frenchie who now lives in Canada 'ou son frere' who lives in New Bedford. Interestingly there is also a large base of Portugese here in Toronto from the mainland as well as from the Acores
eleskin
Well-known
All this talk makes me hungry!
Al,
When I was little, my parents used to take me to the Diplomat hotel in Hollywood. From there, we used to have breakfast ay Pumperniks or the Rascal House. Remember the free danish in the baskets in the morning? My favorite was the rolled prune danish with almonds. Boy was that good!
Another thing I remember was the "Famous Restaurant" with real Jewish style food complete with the seltzer bottles.
I wish I was into photography then. I was too young at the time!
Ed
PS: here are some quotes printed on a card from the Famous Restaurant:
A Chochem - A person who eats at the FAMOUS
DIE BUBBEH - A pensioned off babysitter
DER ZADEH - Grandchild's press agent
ONGEBLOZZEN - Young father who wanted a boy.
TZORRIS - Something you get from children.
NOCHES - Something you get from grandchildren.
A HARTZ VATIG - The lady next door buys the same hat.
A SHLIMOZZEL - A woman who is allergic to fur.
KREPLACH - The eternal triangle.
RETACH - Repeat performance.
LOX - A fish used to wake the family on Sunday A.M.
KASHEH - The Jewish version of Serutan.
GEHAKTEH TSORRIS - A five cent hamburger.
MONDLEN - Edible ping pong balls.
GRIBBENES - Jewish popcorn.
MATZOH - Temporary filling for cavities.
A MACHAYEH - Seltzer water.
KOVED - Allowing the other guy to pay the check.
BOACH VATIG - Something you ate in my competitor's.
A KOP VATIG - How much to tip the waiter.
RETACH & SELTZER - A belch with a flavor.
DER MALECH-HUMUVESS - Motorcycle Policeman.
LOX 'N' BAGLES - Romeo and Juliet.
Al,
When I was little, my parents used to take me to the Diplomat hotel in Hollywood. From there, we used to have breakfast ay Pumperniks or the Rascal House. Remember the free danish in the baskets in the morning? My favorite was the rolled prune danish with almonds. Boy was that good!
Another thing I remember was the "Famous Restaurant" with real Jewish style food complete with the seltzer bottles.
I wish I was into photography then. I was too young at the time!
Ed
PS: here are some quotes printed on a card from the Famous Restaurant:
A Chochem - A person who eats at the FAMOUS
DIE BUBBEH - A pensioned off babysitter
DER ZADEH - Grandchild's press agent
ONGEBLOZZEN - Young father who wanted a boy.
TZORRIS - Something you get from children.
NOCHES - Something you get from grandchildren.
A HARTZ VATIG - The lady next door buys the same hat.
A SHLIMOZZEL - A woman who is allergic to fur.
KREPLACH - The eternal triangle.
RETACH - Repeat performance.
LOX - A fish used to wake the family on Sunday A.M.
KASHEH - The Jewish version of Serutan.
GEHAKTEH TSORRIS - A five cent hamburger.
MONDLEN - Edible ping pong balls.
GRIBBENES - Jewish popcorn.
MATZOH - Temporary filling for cavities.
A MACHAYEH - Seltzer water.
KOVED - Allowing the other guy to pay the check.
BOACH VATIG - Something you ate in my competitor's.
A KOP VATIG - How much to tip the waiter.
RETACH & SELTZER - A belch with a flavor.
DER MALECH-HUMUVESS - Motorcycle Policeman.
LOX 'N' BAGLES - Romeo and Juliet.
Al Kaplan
Veteran
Memories! That's why now I say shoot everything, save everything, even the everyday and mundane, you never know what you might want a picture of and wish you'd shot it and/or kept it. Remember Thee Image, a rock venue in Sunny Isles made out of an old bowling alley, west side of Collins Ave. at about 170th Street? Late 1960's. A lot of MAJOR groups played there and a local group, Fantasy, got their start there, got a recording contract with Liberty/United Artists, had one big hit Stoned Cowboy.
There was a big obituary in yesterday's Miami Herald for a girl who got her start as their singer, went on to sing with War and Jerry Garcia (Grateful Dead) and others, by the name of Jamene Miller, dead at 55 a few days ago. Last time I ran into her must have been thirty years ago at least.
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/obituaries/story/731996.html The Herald doesn't keep these links active forever but it should work for a week or two.
My point is, I still have all those negatives I shot back then when Fantasy was still a bunch of high school kids of 15 and 16. I shot them live at various places like Thee Image, outdoor concerts at Greynolds Park, probably a rock fest or two. I did two record covers as well as studio shots for press releases. I just ran across an 8x10 glossy press handout, but that was shot during one of the intervals when she was with another group. Jamene isn't in the shot. It's also one of the few studio shots I did of the group.
I hate to sound like a vulture but I'm going to dig out those negatives & contacts, maybe print up a few, because no doubt there's going to be a market for them, at least for awhile. Plenty of kids used to take their Pentax and Nikon SLR's to those concerts, the Miami Herald no doubt shot a few pictures, but odds are my pictures are some of the very few surviving ones. At least the very few that anybody can locate after all these years.
Yup, Sunny Isles Beach was more than just pickled tomatoes and hot pastrami on rye. It was also creativity, Rock 'n Roll, fun times, good ganga, and some of the first acid to make it to South Florida. Back then nobody said "You're still shooting FILM?", not even "You're still shooting BLACK & WHITE?" Nobody said "You're still shooting rangefinder cameras? Get with the SLR revolution!" Hell, I still shoot with some of the same stuff I used for shooting Fantasy. Someplace around here is the Fantasy album cover that I shot with that 400mm.
To repeat, SHOOT EVERYTHING, SAVE EVERYTHING. I don't have any pictures, inside or out, of Pumpernick's, Wolfie's, or The Rascal House. Too everday, too mundane. Pickled tomatoes are just a memory.
Thanks to Google a number of people have stumbled onto my blog, my photos and writings about that long gone local music scene. I've gotten together with a few of them for lunch or whatnot. Those cute teenage girls mostly now look exactly like the grandmothers that they've become.
There was a big obituary in yesterday's Miami Herald for a girl who got her start as their singer, went on to sing with War and Jerry Garcia (Grateful Dead) and others, by the name of Jamene Miller, dead at 55 a few days ago. Last time I ran into her must have been thirty years ago at least.
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/obituaries/story/731996.html The Herald doesn't keep these links active forever but it should work for a week or two.
My point is, I still have all those negatives I shot back then when Fantasy was still a bunch of high school kids of 15 and 16. I shot them live at various places like Thee Image, outdoor concerts at Greynolds Park, probably a rock fest or two. I did two record covers as well as studio shots for press releases. I just ran across an 8x10 glossy press handout, but that was shot during one of the intervals when she was with another group. Jamene isn't in the shot. It's also one of the few studio shots I did of the group.
I hate to sound like a vulture but I'm going to dig out those negatives & contacts, maybe print up a few, because no doubt there's going to be a market for them, at least for awhile. Plenty of kids used to take their Pentax and Nikon SLR's to those concerts, the Miami Herald no doubt shot a few pictures, but odds are my pictures are some of the very few surviving ones. At least the very few that anybody can locate after all these years.
Yup, Sunny Isles Beach was more than just pickled tomatoes and hot pastrami on rye. It was also creativity, Rock 'n Roll, fun times, good ganga, and some of the first acid to make it to South Florida. Back then nobody said "You're still shooting FILM?", not even "You're still shooting BLACK & WHITE?" Nobody said "You're still shooting rangefinder cameras? Get with the SLR revolution!" Hell, I still shoot with some of the same stuff I used for shooting Fantasy. Someplace around here is the Fantasy album cover that I shot with that 400mm.
To repeat, SHOOT EVERYTHING, SAVE EVERYTHING. I don't have any pictures, inside or out, of Pumpernick's, Wolfie's, or The Rascal House. Too everday, too mundane. Pickled tomatoes are just a memory.
Thanks to Google a number of people have stumbled onto my blog, my photos and writings about that long gone local music scene. I've gotten together with a few of them for lunch or whatnot. Those cute teenage girls mostly now look exactly like the grandmothers that they've become.
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eleskin
Well-known
Al,
I also save everything too. I have taken many photos over the years of Bethlehem Steel's Bethlehem Plant (go to the Steelworkers Archives web site, and navigate to Galleries and then Workers to see portraits and stories). Now I am doing a portrait project of steelworkers that used to work there. With this digital stuff, alot of people edit out what they do not like. I shoot digital and film. As with film, I save everything I shoot in digital. That means very large hard drives, (I have 3 which back each other up and have the same files on them, both from my digital camera and drum scanned negatives).
What I noticed is when you age, you see your photos in a different way, and you sometimes look back at stuff you did not like in the past, and now do because of something you missed or see in another way due to changed life experiences.
Ed
I also save everything too. I have taken many photos over the years of Bethlehem Steel's Bethlehem Plant (go to the Steelworkers Archives web site, and navigate to Galleries and then Workers to see portraits and stories). Now I am doing a portrait project of steelworkers that used to work there. With this digital stuff, alot of people edit out what they do not like. I shoot digital and film. As with film, I save everything I shoot in digital. That means very large hard drives, (I have 3 which back each other up and have the same files on them, both from my digital camera and drum scanned negatives).
What I noticed is when you age, you see your photos in a different way, and you sometimes look back at stuff you did not like in the past, and now do because of something you missed or see in another way due to changed life experiences.
Ed
Al Kaplan
Veteran
I certainly agree with that. Things come in and out of style. When late 1960's miniskirts went out of style, replaced by "Granny dresse"' brushing the floor in the 70's, nobody expected their revival 40 years later. Yet 40 years earlier the "flapper" girls of the 1920's were wearing pretty much the same thing. I'm enjoying it while I can because I'll be over 100 when minis come back in fashion...LOL. Same thing with hip hugger jeans. 1960's long straight hippy hair is back too.
On another front, the 1970's "Ms." revolt against pantyhose, stockings, and heels has given way to a new generation of girls embracing the style, even to the point of making sure that you KNOW that they're wearing real stockings because you can see the garters peeking out from under their skirts when they sit down, and spike heels do something to a woman's legs, and they damn well know it. Sore feetor not. Obvious make-up, bright red lipstick, nails to match, all back in style again. What I don't get is the penchant for splaying out the bra straps beyond the width of a halter top, or leaving the rear top of a thong 3 inches above the waistband of the jeans or the skirt. Is it "Look Ma! See! I AM wearing underwear!" or maybe "Take a good gander, you dirty old man you!"?
I think to a large degree we're now looking at both old pictures and new pictures in the same light. It's the ones in the middle (20 years old photos) that look so dated. Another thing is the resurgeance of classic hard and acid rock music, an interest in the sound of tube amps and vinyl records ~ analog vs. digital in the music world...LOL~ and the youngsters are always asking me if I'd seen this group or that LIVE. When I tell them that I still have a TURNTABLE and all my original records, WOW! They want to hear what the Stones or Cream REALLY sound like.
Most albums had one or two great songs. Listening to them now, through the filter of all the years, sometimes I wonder what anybody could have liked about a particular track while another that had mostly been included as a way to fill the album now resonates with something in my head. I just love it!
Time to load an M with Tri-X, stick on my 21/3.4 Super Angulon, and hit the streets.
On another front, the 1970's "Ms." revolt against pantyhose, stockings, and heels has given way to a new generation of girls embracing the style, even to the point of making sure that you KNOW that they're wearing real stockings because you can see the garters peeking out from under their skirts when they sit down, and spike heels do something to a woman's legs, and they damn well know it. Sore feetor not. Obvious make-up, bright red lipstick, nails to match, all back in style again. What I don't get is the penchant for splaying out the bra straps beyond the width of a halter top, or leaving the rear top of a thong 3 inches above the waistband of the jeans or the skirt. Is it "Look Ma! See! I AM wearing underwear!" or maybe "Take a good gander, you dirty old man you!"?
I think to a large degree we're now looking at both old pictures and new pictures in the same light. It's the ones in the middle (20 years old photos) that look so dated. Another thing is the resurgeance of classic hard and acid rock music, an interest in the sound of tube amps and vinyl records ~ analog vs. digital in the music world...LOL~ and the youngsters are always asking me if I'd seen this group or that LIVE. When I tell them that I still have a TURNTABLE and all my original records, WOW! They want to hear what the Stones or Cream REALLY sound like.
Most albums had one or two great songs. Listening to them now, through the filter of all the years, sometimes I wonder what anybody could have liked about a particular track while another that had mostly been included as a way to fill the album now resonates with something in my head. I just love it!
Time to load an M with Tri-X, stick on my 21/3.4 Super Angulon, and hit the streets.
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Al Kaplan
Veteran
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/6344/1997/1600/Blog 70 e.0.jpg
This was a common sight at those Greynolds Park Love-ins, the parking lot at Thee Image, and at Tito's head shop, The Mushroom, on West Dixie Highway in Ojus. It was my 1961 Volkswagen Microbus. Damn, I should have just put it up on blocks in my FRONT yard and told the code enforcement guy that it was a piece of mixed media ARTWORK. It even had a red "dot" on the side...LOL.
This was a common sight at those Greynolds Park Love-ins, the parking lot at Thee Image, and at Tito's head shop, The Mushroom, on West Dixie Highway in Ojus. It was my 1961 Volkswagen Microbus. Damn, I should have just put it up on blocks in my FRONT yard and told the code enforcement guy that it was a piece of mixed media ARTWORK. It even had a red "dot" on the side...LOL.
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jan normandale
Film is the other way
this is miles OT now however if you are doing what you say 'above' I'd suggest you look at my link below to ntropy.us from there go to the Archives section and check the 'steel' category. I also have some stuff in folders in my flickr account "someplace / somewhere"
enjoy...
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