Turtle
Veteran
I just don't think about it. Sometimes I have an entire roll of 'good shots', but none of them quite bring me to the enlarger because one gem on another roll somehow renders them pale in comparison. Sometimes, shots are good but variations on something done before and whilst technically good and aesthetically fine, they once again don't make it.
It all depends on what you are doing it for and your personal standards/goals. I really don't think it is productive to think about and I would go so far as to say I think it is counterproductive. The last roll of 120 (6x7) I shot had 3-4 printers on it. The previous 5 rolls had none and the 10 before that I still can't decide, but there are a few that I am sure will end up being printed. It is not always a fixed thing. When I am finally done here in Afghanistan I will undoubtedly explore negs I dismissed and find some good shots, equally there will be those that I go off. I will not be counting the number of rolls shot and am content to shoot as much as I can simply to further my vision and other skills (such as kit packing, interpersonal skills, technical fluidity with kit etc). Rolls of film are rarely wasted if you are trying to achieve something. I have many rolls of rubbish that helped me work thru something or allowed me to see that my way of seeing a particular subject was not 'working'. Keep shooting and do not worry about the number of keepers - the better I get, the more discerning I am with what I print, so I am discarding shots I would have printed with glee 5 years ago. Nothing is taken away from a great print on the wall when one remembers the twenty rolls before it that produced plenty of nice but ultimately forgettable images.
When I have a number of rolls that don't inspire me, it makes the urge to go out and stretch my legs all the more powerful. It can be a good thing. Every day is different as is every location. This place is a pain in the ***** to photograph in and I find it very tough indeed and so I have more useless rolls than ever before, but I am equally sure that it is helping me to improve what I do.
It all depends on what you are doing it for and your personal standards/goals. I really don't think it is productive to think about and I would go so far as to say I think it is counterproductive. The last roll of 120 (6x7) I shot had 3-4 printers on it. The previous 5 rolls had none and the 10 before that I still can't decide, but there are a few that I am sure will end up being printed. It is not always a fixed thing. When I am finally done here in Afghanistan I will undoubtedly explore negs I dismissed and find some good shots, equally there will be those that I go off. I will not be counting the number of rolls shot and am content to shoot as much as I can simply to further my vision and other skills (such as kit packing, interpersonal skills, technical fluidity with kit etc). Rolls of film are rarely wasted if you are trying to achieve something. I have many rolls of rubbish that helped me work thru something or allowed me to see that my way of seeing a particular subject was not 'working'. Keep shooting and do not worry about the number of keepers - the better I get, the more discerning I am with what I print, so I am discarding shots I would have printed with glee 5 years ago. Nothing is taken away from a great print on the wall when one remembers the twenty rolls before it that produced plenty of nice but ultimately forgettable images.
When I have a number of rolls that don't inspire me, it makes the urge to go out and stretch my legs all the more powerful. It can be a good thing. Every day is different as is every location. This place is a pain in the ***** to photograph in and I find it very tough indeed and so I have more useless rolls than ever before, but I am equally sure that it is helping me to improve what I do.
Papa Smurf
Established
Keepers, we are suppse to have keepers?
Keepers, we are suppse to have keepers?
I voted for 3 because I read a long time ago that the Pro's were happy with 5 to 10 % keepers, but in reality I seldom get any that I really like. As some of the others have stated, technically, focus and exposure are my biggest issues and, well just forget composition, perspective, and timing.
Artistically, I am happy if I get one that others ooh and aah about. Mostly, the image that ends up on the negative is not the image that my mind saw the moment the shutter tripped! Is it possible to have dyslexic vision?
And fwiw, I prefer 24 exposure rolls, although at an event where I know that I will be shooting a lot, 36 Exp rolls mean fewer film changes.
Keepers, we are suppse to have keepers?
I voted for 3 because I read a long time ago that the Pro's were happy with 5 to 10 % keepers, but in reality I seldom get any that I really like. As some of the others have stated, technically, focus and exposure are my biggest issues and, well just forget composition, perspective, and timing.
Artistically, I am happy if I get one that others ooh and aah about. Mostly, the image that ends up on the negative is not the image that my mind saw the moment the shutter tripped! Is it possible to have dyslexic vision?
And fwiw, I prefer 24 exposure rolls, although at an event where I know that I will be shooting a lot, 36 Exp rolls mean fewer film changes.
mh2000
Well-known
Keep at it!
>>I haven't been photographing terribly long and have only shot a couple hundred rolls of film, but I have yet to have one I'm truly satisfied with yet.
>>I haven't been photographing terribly long and have only shot a couple hundred rolls of film, but I have yet to have one I'm truly satisfied with yet.
Al Kaplan
Veteran
I guess that I average between two and maybe six per roll. It depends on the subject matter, the lighting, and most of all my mood, how involved I'm feeling with what I'm photographing. Sometimes everything falls into place, and I FEEL it while it's happening!
Lately I've been going through my boxes of old negatives and contact sheets. I've had requests to come up with some "historical" photos of people and events here in North Miami going back to the 1960's, and another project involves my Seminole and Miccosukee Indian photos from the 1970's. Looking at the contact sheets from thirty and forty-plus years ago seems to reveal about the same percentage of good shots per roll as I get today. I can't even say that my style has changed very much. I still prefer shooting in B&W with Leica rangefinder cameras, 35mm is my standard focal length, and I love the effect of ultra-wide angle lenses ~ my 19mm Canon was the widest made in the late 1960's and I jumped on the 15mm Voigtlander Heliar when it first hit the market.
I think that if we just go with the flow, and don't try to immitate someone else's style, the percentage of good shots goes up. I've tried to shoot like H.C.B. and make prints like Gene Smith and Jerry Uelsmann, but I really don't "see" the way they do. I don't have their vision, their way of looking at the world. I can come up with a pretty good imitation but it becomes more work than pleasure and the prints never seem to have the "spark" that makes for a great photograph.
Lately I've been going through my boxes of old negatives and contact sheets. I've had requests to come up with some "historical" photos of people and events here in North Miami going back to the 1960's, and another project involves my Seminole and Miccosukee Indian photos from the 1970's. Looking at the contact sheets from thirty and forty-plus years ago seems to reveal about the same percentage of good shots per roll as I get today. I can't even say that my style has changed very much. I still prefer shooting in B&W with Leica rangefinder cameras, 35mm is my standard focal length, and I love the effect of ultra-wide angle lenses ~ my 19mm Canon was the widest made in the late 1960's and I jumped on the 15mm Voigtlander Heliar when it first hit the market.
I think that if we just go with the flow, and don't try to immitate someone else's style, the percentage of good shots goes up. I've tried to shoot like H.C.B. and make prints like Gene Smith and Jerry Uelsmann, but I really don't "see" the way they do. I don't have their vision, their way of looking at the world. I can come up with a pretty good imitation but it becomes more work than pleasure and the prints never seem to have the "spark" that makes for a great photograph.
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Jason808
Established
To a point - and I agree that the content should be most important.
But, I'll speak for only myself: I think getting the "technicals" right should be a subconscious process, thus allowing me to concentrate on the subject matter. I also think that in some cases, it's important to get the technical issues right in order to create the image I want to create, in the way I intended. There are certainly places where technical deficiencies can be overcome by the content, but if I fail to communicate because I was too lax in making sure the exposure/focus was right, then I've failed entirely.
I understand this argument could be spun in the reverse, but that's why I want to always strive to make the basics a natural movement so my brain can focus completely on what's in the frame, and I don't have to have faith in the "fudge factor" of the medium. I see things like focus, exposure, etc. as fundamentals, like dribbling and passing the ball.
I hope I don't come off as dismissive of your ideas - that's not my intent. I think you have correctly pointed out that the thought process goes too far into the mechanics sometimes. Indeed, there are times when I get upset about letting the technical invade my thought process.
As for the question: whether film or digital, I want to be "on" (focus, exp, framing) 75% of the time, and 25% were "keepers" I'd be happy. If one or two were "portfolio worthy", then all the better, but having that great pic doesn't make the difference between a good shoot and bad one to me.
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BillBingham2
Registered User
For me, anything less than 4 keepers (shots that I'm willing to show other people) is a bad roll. Great shots come along a lot less often, perhaps once every two or three rolls. I find I shoot a bit more with digital as I do not yet have the same control over my camera as I do with my film bodies. I usually shoot only one shot of a scene in film, where are about 10% of the time I shot two or three shots. Mostly because of questions I have over exposure (including flash).
B2 (;->
B2 (;->
Leigh Youdale
Well-known
Happiness is a Printable Frame
Happiness is a Printable Frame
I work on a 10% basis. If 10% are judged worth printing up to (say) 10x8 then I'm content. More, and I'm happy. Less and I have to try harder.
Happiness is a Printable Frame
I work on a 10% basis. If 10% are judged worth printing up to (say) 10x8 then I'm content. More, and I'm happy. Less and I have to try harder.
Tom A
RFF Sponsor
I tend to shoot all the time - averaging 2 rolls a day. Once processed, i make an effort to find 5 shots/roll for scanning - maybe not because they are that good, but looking at them on the screen teaches me something.
It also depends on what I am doing, just a walk to the cafe or magazine store probably only would result in 1 shot worth looking twice at - but a conscious "expedition" would result in a better "keeper" rate.
There is "state of mind" that you occasionally get into - images pop up everywhere and you just shoot away and 1 or 2 rolls can result in 10-15 shots worth a darkroom session. I also use the camera as a notebook - buildings and places that I want to remember for some reason, and occasionally people, though i am not a portrait shooter.
I also find that you have to take pictures all the time - not necessarily with a camera, but in your mind to keep up the "flow"
We lived in Paris for a year in 1982/83 - the whole idea was to do only what we enjoyed (it was after several years of corporate work and a bit of a "burn out"). Tuulikki studied french 8-10 hours a day and I set out every morning with a couple of M's (usually 35f2 and 21/3,4) and wandered around rather aimlessly for a similar time. Maybe 1-2 rolls a day/average. Some days there were 30-40 shots that were interesting, other days none! Back home to our small studio apartment and process the films in D-76 in the bathtub. After having edited down the films quite "hard" - I ended up with about 150 rolls of TriX and all in all about 200 shots that I feel hold up, even 25 years later.
It was an immens feeling of luxury to a/have the time and b/ make the decision to do this and c/it firmly got me set to stop shooting industrial/commercial stuff and just shoot bl/w and 35. Had to come up something else to do, invented the Rapidwinder and as each winder that goes out is tested with at least one or two rolls - I keep shooting and the rate is still 4-5 shots per roll that might be interesting to me and maybe 1-2 that other people like!
It also depends on what I am doing, just a walk to the cafe or magazine store probably only would result in 1 shot worth looking twice at - but a conscious "expedition" would result in a better "keeper" rate.
There is "state of mind" that you occasionally get into - images pop up everywhere and you just shoot away and 1 or 2 rolls can result in 10-15 shots worth a darkroom session. I also use the camera as a notebook - buildings and places that I want to remember for some reason, and occasionally people, though i am not a portrait shooter.
I also find that you have to take pictures all the time - not necessarily with a camera, but in your mind to keep up the "flow"
We lived in Paris for a year in 1982/83 - the whole idea was to do only what we enjoyed (it was after several years of corporate work and a bit of a "burn out"). Tuulikki studied french 8-10 hours a day and I set out every morning with a couple of M's (usually 35f2 and 21/3,4) and wandered around rather aimlessly for a similar time. Maybe 1-2 rolls a day/average. Some days there were 30-40 shots that were interesting, other days none! Back home to our small studio apartment and process the films in D-76 in the bathtub. After having edited down the films quite "hard" - I ended up with about 150 rolls of TriX and all in all about 200 shots that I feel hold up, even 25 years later.
It was an immens feeling of luxury to a/have the time and b/ make the decision to do this and c/it firmly got me set to stop shooting industrial/commercial stuff and just shoot bl/w and 35. Had to come up something else to do, invented the Rapidwinder and as each winder that goes out is tested with at least one or two rolls - I keep shooting and the rate is still 4-5 shots per roll that might be interesting to me and maybe 1-2 that other people like!
LeicaTom
Watch that step!
I honesty try to keep about 8 to 12 on each roll, sometimes more.......my kill ratio is about 65/70% I really can`t afford to lose shots doing what I do, 90% of the time it`s the models fault or my assistant missed something going on if there`s a messed up shot.....
Also when I use LTM`s I have to allow for mechanical failure, once I had a IIIC K that was sometime`s capping, sometime`s not and I still have about 6 cameras that need to go to repairs
I`m currently using a M6, two 45' IIIC K`s and a 1970`s Canon F-1 for all my film work. (I need a M3 or another M6 to take up the slack) I also thow in the Canon IIF2 which is a really great camera to work with as well and for those who know me, I work mainly with fast 50`s so focusing is an issue sometimes, depending on how fast we are getting something done etc.
The worst thing really is proofing shot work, I try to do it together with all my gals, right after a shoot, that way they pick at least 5 pics per look and I pick 5 pics per look and somewhere inbetween there`s where I get the finished product and the number we use in the meanwhile it`s just very time consuming - (that`s the part I hate the most)
Tom
Also when I use LTM`s I have to allow for mechanical failure, once I had a IIIC K that was sometime`s capping, sometime`s not and I still have about 6 cameras that need to go to repairs
I`m currently using a M6, two 45' IIIC K`s and a 1970`s Canon F-1 for all my film work. (I need a M3 or another M6 to take up the slack) I also thow in the Canon IIF2 which is a really great camera to work with as well and for those who know me, I work mainly with fast 50`s so focusing is an issue sometimes, depending on how fast we are getting something done etc.
The worst thing really is proofing shot work, I try to do it together with all my gals, right after a shoot, that way they pick at least 5 pics per look and I pick 5 pics per look and somewhere inbetween there`s where I get the finished product and the number we use in the meanwhile it`s just very time consuming - (that`s the part I hate the most)
Tom
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srichmond
Established
For me it depends on the subject. Some situations you are in mean that there are very rich opportunities presented, so your expectation of a good hit rate are high. Other times, I'd be happy with just one good shot per roll.
Pherdinand
the snow must go on
six plus, but then, i am never happy with myself.
DGA
Well-known
When I started taking pictures, 50% were keepers.
But as I grew into photography this number went down.
Currently, I'm happy with 3-4 nice frames in a roll.
I'm sure that as time passes, this number will continue to drop.
(I hope so)
It is a simple equation:
The more pictures you take, the better you know what good pictures are.
The better you know what good pictures are, less pictures are considered by your self as "good ones", hence - less "keepers" on your rolls.
Add to this the fact that you want to keep on improving your photography and you get "progress".
I'm in progress, at the moment.
But as I grew into photography this number went down.
Currently, I'm happy with 3-4 nice frames in a roll.
I'm sure that as time passes, this number will continue to drop.
(I hope so
) It is a simple equation:
The more pictures you take, the better you know what good pictures are.
The better you know what good pictures are, less pictures are considered by your self as "good ones", hence - less "keepers" on your rolls.
Add to this the fact that you want to keep on improving your photography and you get "progress".
I'm in progress, at the moment.
rbsinto
Well-known
I guess one or two good shots per roll is what I reasonably expect, although many times all 36 slides are digitally manipulated between my left index and middle fingers with a deft flick of the wrist into the blue Recycling Bin I keep beside the projector.
And I agree that as one gains experience, expertise, and become more discerning, the fewer images are considered to be worth keeping. That has been my experience over the thirty years I've been shooting.
And I agree that as one gains experience, expertise, and become more discerning, the fewer images are considered to be worth keeping. That has been my experience over the thirty years I've been shooting.
craygc
Well-known
Well for me the activity of scanning, post-processing & hand spotting (which is the killer) makes me think twice about whether or not I want to keep it. Typically I'd maintain 25% - 50% per roll these days...
craygc
Well-known
If you really think about it, this sort of success rate suggests you arent a photographer, your just playing statistics. Shoot enough and eventually something great will turn up
TomN
Established
when i'm shooting for myself, I usually expect one or two photos that I really like, and five or six that I am happy to upload to flickr. when i'm doing weddings, I expect 20 to 25 shots per roll that I can give to the b&g.
btgc
Veteran
happy? 37 keepers from 36exp roll
one (or couple at best) keepers from roll make me believing I can continue with my hobby. It happens often that whole roll is trash.
I've heard that good metric is 1 keeper per meter of film. So from 36exp roll good photographer has to have about 3 keepers.
Then we have to define keeper. Not ashamed to post online or to take at exhibition?
one (or couple at best) keepers from roll make me believing I can continue with my hobby. It happens often that whole roll is trash.
I've heard that good metric is 1 keeper per meter of film. So from 36exp roll good photographer has to have about 3 keepers.
Then we have to define keeper. Not ashamed to post online or to take at exhibition?
Lilserenity
Well-known
Generally I work on the basis of 1/3rd of the roll of good/acceptable frames is thumbs up, but from that I do like to have about 5 or 6 real goodies.
Especially at the moment as I am shooting for a book.
If I was shooting for just any old thing (which is usually what I do!) I'm not hard on myself.
Especially at the moment as I am shooting for a book.
If I was shooting for just any old thing (which is usually what I do!) I'm not hard on myself.
wgerrard
Veteran
I'm glad you said that. I don't make a practice of always carrying a camera, but I do try to frame possible images as I go, even if I'm treading back and forth on familiar ground.
To the question: I'm happy with 2-3 I'm willing to show others. I'm annoyed when I botch focus or exposure, and I'm really annoyed when a shot I worked hard at and that I thought would be a winner turns out to be a flop.
arseniii
Well-known
If you mean satisfied in terms of technically right and with good composition I would say I get 2-3 per roll. If we are talking about pictures I would print and/or put it on a web-site then it would be ONE for about 5-6 rolls. I am trying to be more "efficient" with a slide film, but in this case my pictures come out to be still and lifeless. It's all about luck anyway, sometimes you're lucky to get 2 exceptional pictures on one roll, and sometimes the whole roll goes to a garbage bin.
Interesting thread, btw! I always wanted to know how other folks do...
Interesting thread, btw! I always wanted to know how other folks do...