Dogman
Veteran
I haven't been around the website in some time so forgive me if this question is redundant. I tried a search and got exactly zero help.
Sometime over the summer, Bill mentioned that he had been using a Canon G9 with accessory finders. With the introduction of the Canon G10 and some interesting reviews of the camera, I've been intrigued with possibilities.
I've pretty much switched to digital for all my color and I've been very happy with the Canon 30D I bought about 18 months ago. I've still been using my Leica M6's and Pentax 645's for most of my black and white. After returning from a recent trip on which I carried a lot of equipment, I reviewed my pictures and realized I had done the vast majority of my photos (both in color and B&W) with the 30D and a Tokina 12-24mm zoom. A few were done with the 30D and a Canon 400L. I shot less than two rolls of film in the Leicas and I've yet to even process them. So why did I carry so much stuff?
I know the main criticism of the G10 is the noise at the higher ISO's. I don't think that will bother me very much--I've never lost any sleep over grain and loss of absolute technical quality in my pictures. Another criticism is the viewfinder but, at least, the G-series cameras have a viewfinder.
So, if any of you are using a G10 or any of the other Canon G models in lieu of your rangefinders, I'd like your opinions on how that's working out for you.
Sometime over the summer, Bill mentioned that he had been using a Canon G9 with accessory finders. With the introduction of the Canon G10 and some interesting reviews of the camera, I've been intrigued with possibilities.
I've pretty much switched to digital for all my color and I've been very happy with the Canon 30D I bought about 18 months ago. I've still been using my Leica M6's and Pentax 645's for most of my black and white. After returning from a recent trip on which I carried a lot of equipment, I reviewed my pictures and realized I had done the vast majority of my photos (both in color and B&W) with the 30D and a Tokina 12-24mm zoom. A few were done with the 30D and a Canon 400L. I shot less than two rolls of film in the Leicas and I've yet to even process them. So why did I carry so much stuff?
I know the main criticism of the G10 is the noise at the higher ISO's. I don't think that will bother me very much--I've never lost any sleep over grain and loss of absolute technical quality in my pictures. Another criticism is the viewfinder but, at least, the G-series cameras have a viewfinder.
So, if any of you are using a G10 or any of the other Canon G models in lieu of your rangefinders, I'd like your opinions on how that's working out for you.
I have a G7 and use it as a P&S, easy to carry camera. It is very good for that, in good light, or when I have an external flash and can use it indoors with flash, and ISO not higher than 200, it is fine.
The viewfinder is nice, but not usable. Much too small, too telescopic, it shows sooooo little of the captured image.
For me I carry it with a RF. I will shoot with the RF, and when I want a color shot, or telephoto, use the G7.
The other combo I would carry is the RF and a lens or two, and my DSLR. There is more of a cross over in this kit, and I don't like carrying a lot with me. But sometimes I get in a mood for one or the other and that can change at any time. I would rather shoot with a RF if I am with or shooting other people. DSLR for general walk around use.
I don't have a place for the G7 and DSLR together though.
The viewfinder is nice, but not usable. Much too small, too telescopic, it shows sooooo little of the captured image.
For me I carry it with a RF. I will shoot with the RF, and when I want a color shot, or telephoto, use the G7.
The other combo I would carry is the RF and a lens or two, and my DSLR. There is more of a cross over in this kit, and I don't like carrying a lot with me. But sometimes I get in a mood for one or the other and that can change at any time. I would rather shoot with a RF if I am with or shooting other people. DSLR for general walk around use.
I don't have a place for the G7 and DSLR together though.
RF-Addict
Well-known
I just moved from a G9 to a G10 because of the wider lens (28mm vs. 35mm) on the G10. As you said, high ISO shots require careful metering and they will show noise, but they ARE useable - I used the G9 in a museum at ISO1600, exposing to the right and the pictures came out very well.
My wife always uses the G10 when we are hiking and I use one of the other cameras and she ONLY uses the viewfinder - she hates looking at the LCD to take a shot. Yes, the VF does not show 100% of the captured image, but it much better than no VF at all
My wife doesn't , mind and her results are good and with the 15MPs that you capture, you can always crop to what you "thought" you took a picture of.
DOF is a real issue with these tiny sensors - even with f2.8 at the wide end of the lens, the DOF is huge - so don't expect any nice OOF areas with these type of cameras.
I love this little camera - I added a RRS bracket, so I can esily mount it on my tripod in both portrait and landscape mode. I have this ultra light Gitzo tripod that goes anywhere I go and is great for the occasional long exposure capture.
My wife always uses the G10 when we are hiking and I use one of the other cameras and she ONLY uses the viewfinder - she hates looking at the LCD to take a shot. Yes, the VF does not show 100% of the captured image, but it much better than no VF at all
My wife doesn't , mind and her results are good and with the 15MPs that you capture, you can always crop to what you "thought" you took a picture of.DOF is a real issue with these tiny sensors - even with f2.8 at the wide end of the lens, the DOF is huge - so don't expect any nice OOF areas with these type of cameras.
I love this little camera - I added a RRS bracket, so I can esily mount it on my tripod in both portrait and landscape mode. I have this ultra light Gitzo tripod that goes anywhere I go and is great for the occasional long exposure capture.
RF-Addict
Well-known
You might also be interested in reading this article on Luminous Landscape - it compares prints of the G10 with those taken with a Hasselblad and a digital back - while the conditions have to be ideal for the G10 to favourably compare, it nevertheless tells a story about the IQ of the Canon.
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/kidding.shtml
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/kidding.shtml
kshapero
South Florida Man
I went the Ricoh CX200 route. A fabulous small sensor digital. But I will still take my ZI any day.
Avotius
Some guy
Dont be fooled by what seems like a viewfinder on the G10. Sure it looks bigger but it actually is not, it looks larger so it can give you a wider angle of view ala the 28mm lens. In reality the thing doesnt work for squat. Its too small to see out of and the framing is horrid.
Yes the G10 might be a good camera at low ISO but go over 200 and that cramped sensor starts to show its true colors. I really like the G10, I love that Canon put things that I use a lot like EV control on the outside of the camera, I like that what the LCD shows me is what its going to shoot, not like the LX3 where you have to half press the shutter to see even in manual mode, or the Ricoh GRD that shows you one thing then gives you something else.
The G10 is a neat camera yes and if I had to choose between it and a Lx3 I would choose the G10 but I would not choose either of those over the Ricoh GRD. The Canon and the panasonic as so....digital....souless smooth images with those typically digital qualities that so many of us dislike. The Ricoh's really do trump the others in this and thats good enough for me.
I had a major computer failure, thank goodness for backups though, in the next week or so when I am back on my feet I will be writing an article about these compact digi cams and I have a few good points to make that I have not seen being talked about yet.
Yes the G10 might be a good camera at low ISO but go over 200 and that cramped sensor starts to show its true colors. I really like the G10, I love that Canon put things that I use a lot like EV control on the outside of the camera, I like that what the LCD shows me is what its going to shoot, not like the LX3 where you have to half press the shutter to see even in manual mode, or the Ricoh GRD that shows you one thing then gives you something else.
The G10 is a neat camera yes and if I had to choose between it and a Lx3 I would choose the G10 but I would not choose either of those over the Ricoh GRD. The Canon and the panasonic as so....digital....souless smooth images with those typically digital qualities that so many of us dislike. The Ricoh's really do trump the others in this and thats good enough for me.
I had a major computer failure, thank goodness for backups though, in the next week or so when I am back on my feet I will be writing an article about these compact digi cams and I have a few good points to make that I have not seen being talked about yet.
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nightfly
Well-known
I'd be interested in your thoughts on the LX 3. The black and white images I've seen posted here and elsewhee from that camera look a lot better than anything I've seen from either the GR D or the G10.
Avotius
Some guy
Not in my experience, the LX3 is so typically digital black and white with that very plastic feeling, but I have a personally developed style so it may not fit with other peoples likings and my tastes on black and white might varry. Either way I will have the article up in about a week in the point and shoot section, or at least once I get my new computer.
nightfly
Well-known
I look forward to your article. I'm a big fan of both your color and black and white work and I think our styles and approach to film are similar so I'm interested in your thoughts on these digital cameras. I'll hold off my LX 3 order till I read your article.
Bill Pierce
Well-known
No question cameras like the G10, small, quiet (if you turn off all the bells and whistle) and discreet, are of real interest to M8 users as the M8 is not small and quiet. And for somebody who uses a large variety of tools for different tasks, the cost of an M8 can be a disadvantage (or an impossibility if you are just starting out in either photography or any other "just starting" that I can think of). I use the G9 and am just starting to use a G10.
The G10 is great on the street or anywhere the light is bright enough to let you use a low "film" speed. I find by converting to b&w and doing a few Photoshop tricks, I can get good, relatively large prints up to ISO 400.
There's the rub. I'm doing a lot of shooting with an inexpensive, small, quiet camera. And then the light goes down and I'm using a camera that cost $5000 before I snap on it's CV 35/1.2.
As all of you here know, I worry about young photojournalists and documentarians doing important work on a very limited budget. I'm still waiting for something small, light, quiet, that works in dim light and that they can afford.
The G10 is great on the street or anywhere the light is bright enough to let you use a low "film" speed. I find by converting to b&w and doing a few Photoshop tricks, I can get good, relatively large prints up to ISO 400.
There's the rub. I'm doing a lot of shooting with an inexpensive, small, quiet camera. And then the light goes down and I'm using a camera that cost $5000 before I snap on it's CV 35/1.2.
As all of you here know, I worry about young photojournalists and documentarians doing important work on a very limited budget. I'm still waiting for something small, light, quiet, that works in dim light and that they can afford.
Dogman
Veteran
Bill, are you still using accessory viewfinders on the G-series cameras? If so, do they work satisfactorily?
I see there is an accessory viewfinder listed on B&H's site for the new Leica/Panasonic P&S camera. I've not read any reviews or seen any specs for it but I wonder if it might be useful. It's a bit pricey for my taste.
I see there is an accessory viewfinder listed on B&H's site for the new Leica/Panasonic P&S camera. I've not read any reviews or seen any specs for it but I wonder if it might be useful. It's a bit pricey for my taste.
Bill Pierce
Well-known
I'm still using the bright line finders on the G9 and G10. You can just pop on the finder for the widest focal length (35 and 28, respectively) or you can use one of the other finders and match views by twiddling the zoom and checking out the viewfinder screen. (Just remember, don't turn the camera off or it will revert to its widest position and your viewfinder twiddling will be for not.) And, remember, the frame ratio is different between the 35mm film frame and the G frames. This is not a precision device for architectural photos, just a street shooter quicky.
The latest Leica/Panasonic not only lets you zoom, but allows you to shoot 3 different frame ratios. That must not be the camera you mean. If it is, no wonder the viewfinder is expensive.
Dogman
Veteran
I looked a little further into the viewfinder I mentioned. It's a Leica 24mm viewfinder advertised for the newest Leica (I forget the model number). I suppose it will fit the Panasonic Lumix as well since they're essentially the same camera.
The G10 still intrigues me despite the warnings about the built-in viewfinder. I generally use my Leicas for street-type photos--quick, candid and casual and without paying much attention to perfect framing. But I still must have a viewfinder because I don't tihnk I could use the LCD screen for diddlysquat. My eyes are pretty bad (make that old).
The G10 still intrigues me despite the warnings about the built-in viewfinder. I generally use my Leicas for street-type photos--quick, candid and casual and without paying much attention to perfect framing. But I still must have a viewfinder because I don't tihnk I could use the LCD screen for diddlysquat. My eyes are pretty bad (make that old).
Bill Pierce
Well-known
As somebody else in contention for the "worst eyes" award, let me make a suggestion that will really seem stupid - at first. Try street shooting without looking through the viewfinder. Shoot from the hip. For a long while you will chop off people's heads, miss them entirely, e.t.c.. And then suddenly you will start holding the camera level and tilted up or down in the right way. Not raising the camera to your eye avoids one of the big problems of street photography - being attacked by irate subjects.
Even when I use a viewfinder on the street, i tend to bring the camera to my eye quickly, pretty much knowing the frame I want in advance even before I look through the finder (one of the advantages of sticking with single focal length) and just as quickly lowering it. Carl Mydans went shooting with Cartier Bresson one day and told me that was what Bresson did. And that he was really quick.
tbm
Established
Re the Leica M8, yesterday as I was visiting numerous Web sites that are authorized Leica dealers I noticed numerous used M8s for sale, none of which were labeled as store demos but there were a few store demos listed as well. Considering the M8's horrid price of approximately $5,500, I wonder why so many buyers are now dumping them after paying so much?
sojournerphoto
Veteran
I use a Ricoh GX100 with an old russian mulitfinder - I like the combo and the finder makes people smile
My daughter has a G7 bought second hand as a birthday rpesent and that's OK, but I muh prefer the GX100 to actualy use as the controls are more natural to me.
I wouldn't swap it for the dslrs or rfs, but at low iso it can still make nice prints.
Mike
My daughter has a G7 bought second hand as a birthday rpesent and that's OK, but I muh prefer the GX100 to actualy use as the controls are more natural to me.
I wouldn't swap it for the dslrs or rfs, but at low iso it can still make nice prints.
Mike
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
I carry an SLR sometimes in lieu of a rangefinder. Pretty much anything that is not a rangefinder I'll use it in lieu of a rangefinder.
mackigator
Well-known
I have the LX-3 and my office mate has the G10. The G10 can save the zoom location as a custom setting, allowing easy use of accessory finders. Very cool.
The LX3, sadly, does not remember zoom settings! This makes accessory finders a bit of a pain to use.
The LX3, sadly, does not remember zoom settings! This makes accessory finders a bit of a pain to use.
Graham Line
Well-known
It's probably heresy, but I've fooled around with friends' G-series cameras and haven't seen enough improvement in versatility or image quality to justify the difference in price between the G's and the $150 A-series 6 and 8 mp cameras. The A's aren't all that compact, but significantly smaller than the G's and until the newest G, both were 35mm equivalent on the wide end.
I'd love to have digital convenience in something the size and quality of the Minolta CLE, with a nice ISO 400 or 800 performance, but it just ain't there yet.
From an A560:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/74312783@N00/tags/canona560/
I'd love to have digital convenience in something the size and quality of the Minolta CLE, with a nice ISO 400 or 800 performance, but it just ain't there yet.
From an A560:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/74312783@N00/tags/canona560/
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ktmrider
Well-known
Perhaps I Had a Lemon
Perhaps I Had a Lemon
I had a G9 and in one year it was back at Canon for repair twice. And I don't think there were more then 600 images on the memory card. The second time the lens would not extend and the camera was 1 week out of warranty. Canon wanted $200 to repair it. I told them to keep it.
I was thinking of taking it with me on a motorcycle trip to TDF. Well, I will be taking either an M4 or Nikon F.
Perhaps I Had a Lemon
I had a G9 and in one year it was back at Canon for repair twice. And I don't think there were more then 600 images on the memory card. The second time the lens would not extend and the camera was 1 week out of warranty. Canon wanted $200 to repair it. I told them to keep it.
I was thinking of taking it with me on a motorcycle trip to TDF. Well, I will be taking either an M4 or Nikon F.