mooge
Well-known
I guess most people would expect 'outdated' technology to be cheap, but that doesn't seem to be the case for RFs. strange...
Hello, my name is Yevgenii Dragunov (not really) and I have rangefinder envy. after drooling over various makes and models far beyond my reach, I figured the Kiev RF system would suit my needs fairly well. so I got one, $20 for a busted Kiev 4 with lens. not bad for an interchangeable lens system, eh? well, after fixing it up and whatnot, opinions have changed. the viewfinder is squinty and dark, and not suitable for a glasses wearer. furthermore, now that I think properly, lenses are around $50 each and then I have to invest $70 or so for a presumably squinty turret-finder. probably not worth it.
so I can sell the Kiev, but then which system should I flock to next? Leica M is a dream for a person who spends less than $50 (yes, I don't have a job. not because of the globaleconomic crisis!, because I'm 16.) the on cameras, so I figured the next most competent thing was the Canon 7. but then the lenses... they're like $200. each. ouch.
so then where is the best place to find cheap deals? the classified section has some very reasonable deals, but they're still largely outta my reach. fleabay is the worst. the local vintage shop actually knows what they're selling, so they're not cheap (to say the least). but I am leaving for Singapore next summah, so are things cheaper in gadget-obsessed Asia? because running home with a bag full of rusted and jammed bodies and badly fungussed lenses is really appealing to me (no joke.)...
well, here's where it gets exciting, I guess...
I should really be building up my FD system, right? (50mm 1.8, 2x teleconverter. THAT'S ALL, though 5 more lenses, including a 300mm are borrowed)
your 2.47 cents?
cheers,
Dragunov
Hello, my name is Yevgenii Dragunov (not really) and I have rangefinder envy. after drooling over various makes and models far beyond my reach, I figured the Kiev RF system would suit my needs fairly well. so I got one, $20 for a busted Kiev 4 with lens. not bad for an interchangeable lens system, eh? well, after fixing it up and whatnot, opinions have changed. the viewfinder is squinty and dark, and not suitable for a glasses wearer. furthermore, now that I think properly, lenses are around $50 each and then I have to invest $70 or so for a presumably squinty turret-finder. probably not worth it.
so I can sell the Kiev, but then which system should I flock to next? Leica M is a dream for a person who spends less than $50 (yes, I don't have a job. not because of the globaleconomic crisis!, because I'm 16.) the on cameras, so I figured the next most competent thing was the Canon 7. but then the lenses... they're like $200. each. ouch.
so then where is the best place to find cheap deals? the classified section has some very reasonable deals, but they're still largely outta my reach. fleabay is the worst. the local vintage shop actually knows what they're selling, so they're not cheap (to say the least). but I am leaving for Singapore next summah, so are things cheaper in gadget-obsessed Asia? because running home with a bag full of rusted and jammed bodies and badly fungussed lenses is really appealing to me (no joke.)...
well, here's where it gets exciting, I guess...
I should really be building up my FD system, right? (50mm 1.8, 2x teleconverter. THAT'S ALL, though 5 more lenses, including a 300mm are borrowed)
your 2.47 cents?
cheers,
Dragunov
Kozhe
Well-known
I´m really looking for a Kiev, if possible with a Jupiter 8M 
If you´re interested in selling yours just drop me a line at kozhedub2000@yahoo.es and we might make a good deal.
I don´t think you can get a good complete system on a budget beside the FSU cameras. Maybe a Zorki 4 "might" be better and solve the viewfinder problem, but once again you´ll have to pay the same for the lenses and turret viewfinder.
I´ll allways prefer a slr camera like your F1 when using diferent lenses and keep the rf for more straight and spontaneous shooting.
If you´re interested in selling yours just drop me a line at kozhedub2000@yahoo.es and we might make a good deal.I don´t think you can get a good complete system on a budget beside the FSU cameras. Maybe a Zorki 4 "might" be better and solve the viewfinder problem, but once again you´ll have to pay the same for the lenses and turret viewfinder.
I´ll allways prefer a slr camera like your F1 when using diferent lenses and keep the rf for more straight and spontaneous shooting.
payasam
a.k.a. Mukul Dube
Any particular reason for not adding to your Canon SLR kit instead of hankering after RF cameras? From 1975 until 1985 I managed well enough with an FTb and 35, 50 and 100 lenses.
breathstealer
Established
Used gear is painfully expensive in Asia, because it's still quite popular. It's almost impossible to get one of those cheap garage sale bargains here.
There's no need for you to get hung up on lens prices, especially if you're still at the stage of "200 each for a lens ouch". Every lens is very different - different enough that it's not worth even thinking about buying one until you're sure you need it. I'm sure a Canon RF and a 50/1.8 is well within your ability to save up for.
I'm not that much older than you (our age difference could be counted on one hand), and my camera budget is also miniscule, but I had a decently sized kit at your age (Canon 7, 35/3.5 Summaron, 90/4 Elmar, though all were in varying states of disrepair) through my grandfather. Perhaps you could ask your relatives?
There's no need for you to get hung up on lens prices, especially if you're still at the stage of "200 each for a lens ouch". Every lens is very different - different enough that it's not worth even thinking about buying one until you're sure you need it. I'm sure a Canon RF and a 50/1.8 is well within your ability to save up for.
I'm not that much older than you (our age difference could be counted on one hand), and my camera budget is also miniscule, but I had a decently sized kit at your age (Canon 7, 35/3.5 Summaron, 90/4 Elmar, though all were in varying states of disrepair) through my grandfather. Perhaps you could ask your relatives?
P. Lynn Miller
Well-known
The cheapest and best way to get into rangefinder photography is with a fixed lens rangefinder. I started with a Minolta Hi-Matic E that was whisper quiet with a sharp as a tack 45mm f1.7 lens. It still is a great camera. While I inherited mine from my grandfather, I think this camera and many just like it can bought for well under $50 even on eBay.
There is a whole cult of photography built around these cheap and cheerful little machines, with the most prized one being the Canon QL17(I think), the Ysahica Electro's, the various Minolta Hi-Matic's, and I am sure I have missed a few, like some of the Olympus offerings. These can be found at most Goodwill stores, yard-sales, etc for $10 or so. And the results from these little beauties can be simply amazing.
That my 2¢...
There is a whole cult of photography built around these cheap and cheerful little machines, with the most prized one being the Canon QL17(I think), the Ysahica Electro's, the various Minolta Hi-Matic's, and I am sure I have missed a few, like some of the Olympus offerings. These can be found at most Goodwill stores, yard-sales, etc for $10 or so. And the results from these little beauties can be simply amazing.
That my 2¢...
Fred Burton
Well-known
Get a Fed 2 and a couple of lenses. Then start saving your coin for a Bessa R or R2. Or perhaps a Zorki 4. Fixed lens 1970's rangefinders are, indeed, popular and will take great photos. There are a lot of options for a small budget.
Just be sure you actually take photos with them instead of just buying and selling them. There is that temptation.
And, as noted, that FD system is very good, and lenses have gotten pretty cheap.
Just be sure you actually take photos with them instead of just buying and selling them. There is that temptation.
And, as noted, that FD system is very good, and lenses have gotten pretty cheap.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Actually the turret finder is very good.
I'm intrigued by your location. North Korea?
Cheers,
R.
I'm intrigued by your location. North Korea?
Cheers,
R.
BillBingham2
Registered User
Dragunov,
Been there, done that, have the scars on the Kiev trip. I dropped a bit of coin on the trip and ending up selling the lot as I wanted something reliable. I ended up going Nikon and am very happy, wish I did not go there directly.
Is it logical to have RangeFinder Lust (RFL), yes! It's a lot of fun. They are different from SLRs (except perhaps the OM-1/2) and have an important place in your creative tool kit.
Options abound, I say take a look at http://www.cameraquest.com/classics.htm and scan the classifieds here and perhaps at APUG.org. If you can not find anything then look at the advertisers here, Woodmere Camera (Rich Rocks), Adorama and KEH as good places to order from.
As much fun as it is, I would strongly advise do some odd jobs to make some extra cash and get the camera you want the first time. It works a lot better.
B2 (;->
Been there, done that, have the scars on the Kiev trip. I dropped a bit of coin on the trip and ending up selling the lot as I wanted something reliable. I ended up going Nikon and am very happy, wish I did not go there directly.
Is it logical to have RangeFinder Lust (RFL), yes! It's a lot of fun. They are different from SLRs (except perhaps the OM-1/2) and have an important place in your creative tool kit.
Options abound, I say take a look at http://www.cameraquest.com/classics.htm and scan the classifieds here and perhaps at APUG.org. If you can not find anything then look at the advertisers here, Woodmere Camera (Rich Rocks), Adorama and KEH as good places to order from.
As much fun as it is, I would strongly advise do some odd jobs to make some extra cash and get the camera you want the first time. It works a lot better.
B2 (;->
bennyng
Benny Ng
I'm from Singapore and can honestly say that prices for used gear might not be as low as the West. The selection is small too. Most of the time, treasures and bargains are found online.
If you are looking at expanding your system, I think prices for the FD range is really much lower these days. I almost bought the Canon FD 500mm f/8.0 Reflex lens the other day for US$100 on the auction site.
Cheers,
mooge
Well-known
har har. true north, anyone? I'm from Canada, and that's a line from our national anthem.
about the kiev: it's not in terribly good mechanical condition (perhaps spacing issues, i.e. slight overlap, light leaks... and I call myself a camera repairman!) really nice looking, though... but I buggered up the lens coating inside, may affect your fotos. dunno if that sounds less attractive now, but I might not even sell it, we'll see.
well, the viewfinder is the biggest issue. I have to press my face against it, and then I still only get something vaguely close to what the actual field of view is. yeah, accurate framing is for SLRs, yes, but i'd like something less crude. and it's so dark...
but the Kiev has left an impact: the contax hold is used on my P&S sometimes.
the real purpose for a RF ourfit is so I don't have to lug around the FTb or F-1 with lenses on biking excursions that don't usually result in a picture taken. the mysterious "light kit".
would using Russian lenses on a Canon body be treason? I could probably find a reasonable (i.e. not working but not worn) Canon 7 but that's just a paperweight without a good lens. (speaking of which... Russian lenses... where to buy?)
and/or is there a cheap, reasonable 35 out there? I don't have one for my FD kit. apparently the Jupiter 12 doesn't fit on the Canon 7...
oh, I have an AWESOME [borrowed] kit, all SLR and all bulk (300mm f/5.6 anyone? sure, not as big as the 2.8, but heavy enough), that's all. and my relatives are like, over there. in Asia. so the pestering will have to wait for later.
sort of in the process of tracking down a GIII QL 17. i'd take that over the other sort because it's small and very capable, yashica ones look good, but I suspect they are rather large.
haha, a Bessa R can be had for the priced of a used M2 or M3, am I correct? guess which i'd go for... and besides, I drop all sorts of crap, so the less plastic, the better.
time is money, I have neither.
I agree, FD seems to be the cheapest semi-modern SLR system out there. hooray for backwards compatibility issues!
thanks, all!
BillBingham2
Registered User
Dragunov,
If you like the Contax hold, look into a Nikon S2. MUCH better view finder and can be found for a reasonable price with a 50/2. A bit more gets you a 50/1.4 which is not that much bigger. Add a CV 25/4, a Nikkor 105/2.5 and you are set.
I blame the Kievs for my learning to love the Contax hold and thank the day I moved over to Nikon rangefinders. It's my only rangefinder now, an S3-2000. I cut way down, sold off a LOT of stuff to pay bills.
Japan is a better place to find good used cameras at reasonable prices than Singapore. You can find an S2 in many different place, most are in good user shape or better.
What I do is use my S3 with either a 25/4, 35/2.5 (both CV) or 50/1.4 Millennium Nikkor and my FTn for anything above it. I have a 105/2.5 for both (different mounts) and a 28/2.8 AIs in F mount. It gives me the flexibility to use either if I only want one body. A kind of in-between option is to carry my RF kit and a SLR with a 180/2.8 and a 2X converter.
Good luck and don't give up the search.
B2 (;->
If you like the Contax hold, look into a Nikon S2. MUCH better view finder and can be found for a reasonable price with a 50/2. A bit more gets you a 50/1.4 which is not that much bigger. Add a CV 25/4, a Nikkor 105/2.5 and you are set.
I blame the Kievs for my learning to love the Contax hold and thank the day I moved over to Nikon rangefinders. It's my only rangefinder now, an S3-2000. I cut way down, sold off a LOT of stuff to pay bills.
Japan is a better place to find good used cameras at reasonable prices than Singapore. You can find an S2 in many different place, most are in good user shape or better.
What I do is use my S3 with either a 25/4, 35/2.5 (both CV) or 50/1.4 Millennium Nikkor and my FTn for anything above it. I have a 105/2.5 for both (different mounts) and a 28/2.8 AIs in F mount. It gives me the flexibility to use either if I only want one body. A kind of in-between option is to carry my RF kit and a SLR with a 180/2.8 and a 2X converter.
Good luck and don't give up the search.
B2 (;->
FrankS
Registered User
Yevgenii,
If you are into camera repair, I have a Minolta 7s that I'll give you. It's in great shape and reputed to have a very good lens. Its problem is sticky shutter blades. Let me know.
http://www.camerapedia.org/wiki/Minolta_Hi-Matic_7s
http://www.butkus.org/chinon/minolta/minolta_hi-matic_7s/minolta_hi-matic_7s.htm
.
If you are into camera repair, I have a Minolta 7s that I'll give you. It's in great shape and reputed to have a very good lens. Its problem is sticky shutter blades. Let me know.
http://www.camerapedia.org/wiki/Minolta_Hi-Matic_7s
http://www.butkus.org/chinon/minolta/minolta_hi-matic_7s/minolta_hi-matic_7s.htm
.
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JeremyLangford
I'd really Leica Leica
Its good to have another teenager here. I'm 17.
I too envy all the Leica owners and their $2,000 plus lenses on this forum. However, I am currently wondering how I can afford a new scanner. I am putting off my want for a Rangefinder at the moment. I have a refurbished Minolta SRT-101 SLR and I am trying to get a good range of wide lenses with that before I invest in a Rangefinder. I am hoping that this will help me to decide what two focal lengths I will get with my Rangefinder when I get one. I'll probably want a Bessa, but I'm still not sure.
I too envy all the Leica owners and their $2,000 plus lenses on this forum. However, I am currently wondering how I can afford a new scanner. I am putting off my want for a Rangefinder at the moment. I have a refurbished Minolta SRT-101 SLR and I am trying to get a good range of wide lenses with that before I invest in a Rangefinder. I am hoping that this will help me to decide what two focal lengths I will get with my Rangefinder when I get one. I'll probably want a Bessa, but I'm still not sure.
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BillBingham2
Registered User
Jeremy, where are you from (home city)? Might have a scanner for you.
Thanks.
B2 (;->
JeremyLangford
I'd really Leica Leica
Wow. I'm from Knoxville, Tennessee
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BillBingham2
Registered User
Let me look around. I have an old scanner that will not work with Macintoshes (I switched the family over to them about two years ago). If you can pay shipping and I can find her I will send her along. I will PM (Private Message) you if I can find her.
Let me know if you are interested.
B2 (;->
Let me know if you are interested.
B2 (;->
OurManInTangier
An Undesirable
Just another reason why I keep coming back here. Well done that man
JeremyLangford said:
Don't knock the Minolta SRT 101
That was my first, okay my dad's really, but my first proper camera and it was brilliant. I still have a soft spot for them, though of course I was fifteen then and I'm thirty five now so I'd probably not want to go back BTW - For my 2 cents on the 'what cheap RF to go with.' I'd go along with keeping and using your SLR gear and then getting a Yashica Electro. They can be had for peanuts and though they don't have interchangeable lenses the lens is excellent. I loved the pictures I got with mine before some toe-rag ran off with my camera bag with the Electro in it....along with some M lenses, Sekonic light meter, loads of exposed film ( containing images that surely would have had Magnum knocking at my door ) and a pack of cigarettes with only one smoked, the swine! Thankfully the M6 was in one hand and a pint was in the other, should've had the bag over my shoulder and not sat between my feet:bang:
EDIT: Didn't read the last few posts before posting so missed another generous and helpful offer from another RFF'er.
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mooge
Well-known
uhh, yes please? that's very generous... i'll send a PM.
I did, but they're a tad outta reach. nice camera for sure, bur probably not right for me. too collectorsy.
and I'm not a 'fan' of the contax hold, it's just like second nature now. (or was)
nice to know another lad my age won't stop to ask "how many megapixels?" or "how much zoom?". har har.
yeah, it's envy, but not so much, I gave up on the Leica dream a while ago. i'm too poor. that was one of the attractions of film: it's cheaper than a $600 plastik DSLR.
I looked at the Yashica, and other alternatives to the Canonet GIII blah blah. none I found were as compact and capable, but before then I'd never heard of the Minolta Hi-matic 7...
But interchangable lenses! ain't it a wonder?
and by the by, a friend and Leica M4p with $2000+ lenses (tri-elmar, anyone?) owner was the one who got me into all this trouble. I borrow his gear (complete Canon F-1 kit!) and beat it up. and take pictures. so my cheers to you, Spencer.
cheers, thanks....
dragunov.
FrankS
Registered User
PM returned. Just send me your mailing address.
breathstealer
Established
I love shooting film, but I wouldn't say that cost is a good reason to use it. Film and processing adds up quickly, especially if you don't own a scanner and pay for scanning. If you know what you want and get it in one go, a digital camera is pretty much a one time investment.
That makes three of us. I wonder how many others there are...
Try looking for a refurbished Epson V series. I think the low end model in that range can go for around 100USD, which is a steal.