calphotography
Member
A couple of years ago I bought some camera equipment for what I beleived to be a good deal. Two years later I find that I have not used the equipment. I am trying to decide if I want to liquidate it and use the money for some other things. The problem is that I have not able to find very much information about the equipment, particularly on value. ..... I am hoping that the forum maybe able to help me out and give me some insight.
The equipment is made by Orion Camera Co., Tokyo, and consists a MIRAX-B reflex housing for Nikon RFs, along with a Focabell Tele-Photo Lens SUPREME 1:2.8 F=10.5cm. short mount lens. These are both used with a Focabell bellows.
In the photo I have attached the equipment to my Nikon M for illustration. The bellows being used are Miranda Focabell and unfortunately are not the original Orion Focabell bellows that was with the equipment. ( i missed out purchasing the originals by 3 minutes). Orion later became Miranda. I do not believe that the Miranda bellows adds any value to the equipment because I think that they are rather common.
I wouild like to hear comments by anyone who have used the equipment , the qualiy of photos it produces (when you know what your doing) as well as guesses to value and demand for it. Any information that can be provided is appreciated .... thanks!
Dennis
The equipment is made by Orion Camera Co., Tokyo, and consists a MIRAX-B reflex housing for Nikon RFs, along with a Focabell Tele-Photo Lens SUPREME 1:2.8 F=10.5cm. short mount lens. These are both used with a Focabell bellows.
In the photo I have attached the equipment to my Nikon M for illustration. The bellows being used are Miranda Focabell and unfortunately are not the original Orion Focabell bellows that was with the equipment. ( i missed out purchasing the originals by 3 minutes). Orion later became Miranda. I do not believe that the Miranda bellows adds any value to the equipment because I think that they are rather common.
I wouild like to hear comments by anyone who have used the equipment , the qualiy of photos it produces (when you know what your doing) as well as guesses to value and demand for it. Any information that can be provided is appreciated .... thanks!
Dennis
Attachments
calphotography
Member
Sorry .... I should have posted this additional photo with the original post. I beleive it shows two releases. Besides having the equipment in my possession , I am unfamiliar with all of it. I have never attempted to use bellows and a macro lens. I know very little about macro photography which is why I have not attempted to use the equipment. I do not know if the releases are complete or not. Is there anything else that should go with the Mirax?
Another question I have is about the lens. Is it unusually fast for a macro lens? Is there any advantage to a fast or slow lens regarding the image assuming quality of lens are the same.
Thanks,
Dennis
Another question I have is about the lens. Is it unusually fast for a macro lens? Is there any advantage to a fast or slow lens regarding the image assuming quality of lens are the same.
Thanks,
Dennis
Attachments
roylaw102
Newbie
A Miranda collectors point of view
A Miranda collectors point of view
What you have here is an extremely nice collectible that any Miranda collector, like myself, would love to get our hands on. I believe that the collectors market, and not the users, is where the true value of this system lies. Not only do you have the Mirax-B and the Supreme lens but you have the original boxes with all the factory goodies inside. Here are a few sites you might like to look at:
http://www.mirandacamera.com/_collectibles/_mirax/mirax.htm
http://www.mirandacamera.com/_collectibles/_rare/rare.htm
I have one of the Orion Focabell bellows units and you are correct that your system would be more valuable with it than with the Miranda one that you have but not by a vast amount. I cannot really say just how much this would go for on Ebay but I know it would command a lot of attention. Suffice it to say that I would pony up the $500 figure that you mentioned in a heartbeat.
I have seen one complete system, like this one, up for sale in the past. It was on Ebay. The owner puts it up every now and again. To my knowledge it has never sold. He puts it up with a starting bid of well over a thousand dollars and, to my knowledge, has not gotten any hits. Note though that he does not have the boxes and all the goodies that you have. I think if he started lower he would exceed his price goal as folks just don't like to start out that high. That doesn't necessarily mean they will not go that high during the fervor of an auction.
I hope this ranting is of some value to you. Let me know if I can be of any more help. I have other collector friends that I might be able to contact if I cannot answer your question.
A Miranda collectors point of view
What you have here is an extremely nice collectible that any Miranda collector, like myself, would love to get our hands on. I believe that the collectors market, and not the users, is where the true value of this system lies. Not only do you have the Mirax-B and the Supreme lens but you have the original boxes with all the factory goodies inside. Here are a few sites you might like to look at:
http://www.mirandacamera.com/_collectibles/_mirax/mirax.htm
http://www.mirandacamera.com/_collectibles/_rare/rare.htm
I have one of the Orion Focabell bellows units and you are correct that your system would be more valuable with it than with the Miranda one that you have but not by a vast amount. I cannot really say just how much this would go for on Ebay but I know it would command a lot of attention. Suffice it to say that I would pony up the $500 figure that you mentioned in a heartbeat.
I have seen one complete system, like this one, up for sale in the past. It was on Ebay. The owner puts it up every now and again. To my knowledge it has never sold. He puts it up with a starting bid of well over a thousand dollars and, to my knowledge, has not gotten any hits. Note though that he does not have the boxes and all the goodies that you have. I think if he started lower he would exceed his price goal as folks just don't like to start out that high. That doesn't necessarily mean they will not go that high during the fervor of an auction.
I hope this ranting is of some value to you. Let me know if I can be of any more help. I have other collector friends that I might be able to contact if I cannot answer your question.
roylaw102
Newbie
I realize that you posted the $500 estimate. I was just saying that, if the OP considered that price that it is worth it to me. I too think that he would get more in an Ebay auction. His actual bellows unit is only worth about $25 to $60 where an Orion one would be about $50 to $125 or so. One of the Miranda Mirax Housings just sold, on Ebay Saturday morning, for $108 + shipping. It had a few issues though. Check here:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=130209967354&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=003
I do hope that if the OP does decide to sell this set that he let's me know when and where.
Roy
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=130209967354&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=003
I do hope that if the OP does decide to sell this set that he let's me know when and where.
Roy
roylaw102
Newbie
Glad you appreciated the web pages. I am just sorry that I can't find any info on past auctions of this equipment. I did find a photo of the set that seems to go up for sale every now and then but I apparently did not save a copy of the web page from the last time it was up.
I agree that you would be better off selling this system as a collectible and using part of the money to buy a new system as your user. The items you have now are to valuable the way they are now to a collector. If you try using this older equipment that has, presumably, been stored for a lot of years you are just asking for trouble unless you want to get into the repair and cleaning end of the hobby. Even then the likelihood of pin holes in the bellows and not being able to find parts for these items plus reducing their collectible value is great. The system you have looks too pristine to risk damage or loss of some parts. I cringe at the very thought.
I think that, in most cases, a collectible item with the Orion or Mirax name will command a higher price than the same item with the Miranda name. I know this to be true in the case of the Focabell bellows units and the first camera commercially produced by Miranda. That was the model T that was made, in lesser quantities, under the Orion name and later as a Miranda T. Poke around in our old MHS (Miranda Historical Society) web site for more history on the Miranda line.
http://www.mirandacamera.com/
Well enough for now. Let me know if you have any other questions.
Roy
I agree that you would be better off selling this system as a collectible and using part of the money to buy a new system as your user. The items you have now are to valuable the way they are now to a collector. If you try using this older equipment that has, presumably, been stored for a lot of years you are just asking for trouble unless you want to get into the repair and cleaning end of the hobby. Even then the likelihood of pin holes in the bellows and not being able to find parts for these items plus reducing their collectible value is great. The system you have looks too pristine to risk damage or loss of some parts. I cringe at the very thought.
I think that, in most cases, a collectible item with the Orion or Mirax name will command a higher price than the same item with the Miranda name. I know this to be true in the case of the Focabell bellows units and the first camera commercially produced by Miranda. That was the model T that was made, in lesser quantities, under the Orion name and later as a Miranda T. Poke around in our old MHS (Miranda Historical Society) web site for more history on the Miranda line.
http://www.mirandacamera.com/
Well enough for now. Let me know if you have any other questions.
Roy
calphotography
Member
I was just looking through the MHS website again and have another question. .... I hope your not tired of me yet.
I was looking at the section for Macro lenses and Focabell oufits {rare equipment). I noticed that the Supreme lens they show is a 1:3.5 F=10.5cm I have not found any reference to the lens I have which is a 1: 2.8 F=10.5. Is that indicating that my lens is more common since its not listed as a rare item or is it actually rarer than the 3.5 - just courious.
Thanks for the referal for the CLA. I'll try to look Pete up. I assume I can find his contact info. somewhere on nikonhs.org.
Roy - you will be the first I'll let know what I have decided to do with the equipment ( keep , sell, direct sale, auction ?)
Dennis
I was looking at the section for Macro lenses and Focabell oufits {rare equipment). I noticed that the Supreme lens they show is a 1:3.5 F=10.5cm I have not found any reference to the lens I have which is a 1: 2.8 F=10.5. Is that indicating that my lens is more common since its not listed as a rare item or is it actually rarer than the 3.5 - just courious.
Thanks for the referal for the CLA. I'll try to look Pete up. I assume I can find his contact info. somewhere on nikonhs.org.
Roy - you will be the first I'll let know what I have decided to do with the equipment ( keep , sell, direct sale, auction ?)
Dennis
roylaw102
Newbie
Hello Again Dennis,
First thing is I am not tired of you. I enjoy discussing my passion (Mirandas) with anyone interested enough to listen. I bought my first one, brand new, right after I got my first real paycheck back in 1959 (how's that for dating myself). My first was a Miranda A and it got a real workout over the next 20 or 30 years. I didn't start collecting them until the late 80's and got deeper into it after my wife died in 2000.
If you look at this page, from the Miranda site, you will see mention of the supreme 2.8 lens. It came in a set with the Orion Focabell bellows unit. They came together in a red leatherette covered wooden case. I would send you a photo but I haven't gotten that figured out yet on this site. I am used to attaching photos to an email but not doing the http: stuff they want here. Which is rarer 2.8 or 3.5 I really do not know.
Sorry but I have to get back to church. I will check this site again later this evening.
Roy
First thing is I am not tired of you. I enjoy discussing my passion (Mirandas) with anyone interested enough to listen. I bought my first one, brand new, right after I got my first real paycheck back in 1959 (how's that for dating myself). My first was a Miranda A and it got a real workout over the next 20 or 30 years. I didn't start collecting them until the late 80's and got deeper into it after my wife died in 2000.
If you look at this page, from the Miranda site, you will see mention of the supreme 2.8 lens. It came in a set with the Orion Focabell bellows unit. They came together in a red leatherette covered wooden case. I would send you a photo but I haven't gotten that figured out yet on this site. I am used to attaching photos to an email but not doing the http: stuff they want here. Which is rarer 2.8 or 3.5 I really do not know.
Sorry but I have to get back to church. I will check this site again later this evening.
Roy
roylaw102
Newbie
Dennis,
Sorry but I forgot to put the site address I referred to in the last message.
http://www.mirandacamera.com/_accessories/_focabell/focabell.htm
Roy
Sorry but I forgot to put the site address I referred to in the last message.
http://www.mirandacamera.com/_accessories/_focabell/focabell.htm
Roy
roylaw102
Newbie
Hi Again,
In reference to your last post, you had the order correct the first time. The lever lock versions were on the Orion Focabells and all the early Miranda ones. The wheel type came in during the later life of the Focabells. Check this site where they list four distinct variations of the Focabell and one oddity. I have examples of all of them, I think. My observations stated above are backed up by the serial numbers on these bellows. The lower numbers are all lever locks and the high ones have wheels.
http://www.mirandacamera.com/_accessories/_focabell/focabell.htm
The variants appear to be listed in the order that they first appeared.
The segmented box you show is made that way because the complete bellows sets were sold with a bellows and lens. The early Orion Focabell came with the Supreme f2.8 lens.
Roy
In reference to your last post, you had the order correct the first time. The lever lock versions were on the Orion Focabells and all the early Miranda ones. The wheel type came in during the later life of the Focabells. Check this site where they list four distinct variations of the Focabell and one oddity. I have examples of all of them, I think. My observations stated above are backed up by the serial numbers on these bellows. The lower numbers are all lever locks and the high ones have wheels.
http://www.mirandacamera.com/_accessories/_focabell/focabell.htm
The variants appear to be listed in the order that they first appeared.
The segmented box you show is made that way because the complete bellows sets were sold with a bellows and lens. The early Orion Focabell came with the Supreme f2.8 lens.
Roy
Last edited:
calphotography
Member
Hmm... I wonder what was in the box that the lady bought . I remember seeing something. Since starting this post I thought it was more than likely the 90 degree prism, but could it actually have been the f3.5 lens since the f2.8 lens I have has its own boxes?
Roy, your going to get me in trouble - you're beginning to peak my interest in Miranda ( Orion ). I already have too many collections. ... Oh well.
How many lenses did Miranda make for the bellows.? Glancing through the MHS I only see that they mention 2 in short mount - the 135mm Soligar-Miranda lens in different versions, and the 10.5cm lens in f2.8 and f3.5 . Are these lenses versatile enough so additional lenses are not needed?
Were any other lenses made by others that would fit the 44mm thread without an adapter? How difficult is it to find adapters that would work for other lenses.
What I am thinking is that maybe enlarger lenses can be used for a macro lens with proper stepdown ? Is there much difference in a macro lens short mount and enlarger lens?
I hope I do not sound like too much of a idiot. I''m new to macro photography and hope these questions aren't too basic for you.
Dennis
Roy, your going to get me in trouble - you're beginning to peak my interest in Miranda ( Orion ). I already have too many collections. ... Oh well.
How many lenses did Miranda make for the bellows.? Glancing through the MHS I only see that they mention 2 in short mount - the 135mm Soligar-Miranda lens in different versions, and the 10.5cm lens in f2.8 and f3.5 . Are these lenses versatile enough so additional lenses are not needed?
Were any other lenses made by others that would fit the 44mm thread without an adapter? How difficult is it to find adapters that would work for other lenses.
What I am thinking is that maybe enlarger lenses can be used for a macro lens with proper stepdown ? Is there much difference in a macro lens short mount and enlarger lens?
I hope I do not sound like too much of a idiot. I''m new to macro photography and hope these questions aren't too basic for you.
Dennis
NIKON KIU
Did you say Nippon Kogaku
If you guys say Miranda one more time, here in the Nikon forum, I am gonna cry.
I bet all of this(including the boxes) will not bring the price of a Orion Nikkor->Leica adapter, but then I have been wrong before.
Thanks for posting,
Kiu
I bet all of this(including the boxes) will not bring the price of a Orion Nikkor->Leica adapter, but then I have been wrong before.
Thanks for posting,
Kiu
roylaw102
Newbie
Kiu,
I would not want to have you come to tears over this. Remember this all started by discussing Orion (Early Miranda) equipment made to provide high quality macro capabilities for the Nikon. In some Miranda reviews back in the 60's & 70's the reviewers paid homage to the Nikon by referring to the Miranda as "The Poor Mans Nikon".
Roy
I would not want to have you come to tears over this. Remember this all started by discussing Orion (Early Miranda) equipment made to provide high quality macro capabilities for the Nikon. In some Miranda reviews back in the 60's & 70's the reviewers paid homage to the Nikon by referring to the Miranda as "The Poor Mans Nikon".
Roy
calphotography
Member
Kiu -
Sorry, I thought it was ok to talk about equipment made to use with Nikon RFs. I do not want to be the cause of you crying.
I do not understand your drift on the adapter. Comparing prices of the two does not make sense to me.The Orion equipment is not the same as an Orion Nikkor -> Leica adapter. Its like comparing a Nikon I with an Orion Nikkor -> Leica adapter.Both are different. They have different uses,and different supply and demand dictating value.
Perhaps you could suggest a user macro system that could be had for around the value of the Orion equipment. I'm guessing $750 - $1,000 ( if its more great if its less that's ok to ).
Thanks,
Dennis
Sorry, I thought it was ok to talk about equipment made to use with Nikon RFs. I do not want to be the cause of you crying.
I do not understand your drift on the adapter. Comparing prices of the two does not make sense to me.The Orion equipment is not the same as an Orion Nikkor -> Leica adapter. Its like comparing a Nikon I with an Orion Nikkor -> Leica adapter.Both are different. They have different uses,and different supply and demand dictating value.
Perhaps you could suggest a user macro system that could be had for around the value of the Orion equipment. I'm guessing $750 - $1,000 ( if its more great if its less that's ok to ).
Thanks,
Dennis
roylaw102
Newbie
Dennis,
The Ebay seller, from Germany, that I told you about has put his Orion system up for sale again. I still think it is high priced but maybe you might want to watch the auction to see if anyone takes him up on his "Buy it Now" offer. Check it out:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Orion-Camera-Co...ryZ15241QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
The Ebay seller, from Germany, that I told you about has put his Orion system up for sale again. I still think it is high priced but maybe you might want to watch the auction to see if anyone takes him up on his "Buy it Now" offer. Check it out:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Orion-Camera-Co...ryZ15241QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
calphotography
Member
Thanks for providing me the link... I am curious to see if he gets his price.
It appears that his is with the Miranda camera mount and mine is with the Nikon mount, Any idea to what the Nikon mount would do to value .... should it add or decrease the value.
I'm still thinking of user instead of collectable equipment.
If I wanted to get into macro. would a Nikon RF or a Nikon SLR be the way to go? It seems like the SLR bodies and lenses are a lot less expensive in general? Is there much difference in image quality and lens versitality? ... I know thats kind of an open ended question but I am wondering as a generalization.
Dennis
It appears that his is with the Miranda camera mount and mine is with the Nikon mount, Any idea to what the Nikon mount would do to value .... should it add or decrease the value.
I'm still thinking of user instead of collectable equipment.
If I wanted to get into macro. would a Nikon RF or a Nikon SLR be the way to go? It seems like the SLR bodies and lenses are a lot less expensive in general? Is there much difference in image quality and lens versitality? ... I know thats kind of an open ended question but I am wondering as a generalization.
Dennis
roylaw102
Newbie
Dennis,
The seller has had this system up many times over the last year or so and no sale yet. We will see if it sells this time. I don't remember the price he had on it last time. As to the Miranda mount vs Nikon bringing a higher price I would imagine that would depend on if the buyer was a Miranda or Nikon collector. Your macro questions will best be answered by the webmaster or other Nikon user/collector.
Roy
The seller has had this system up many times over the last year or so and no sale yet. We will see if it sells this time. I don't remember the price he had on it last time. As to the Miranda mount vs Nikon bringing a higher price I would imagine that would depend on if the buyer was a Miranda or Nikon collector. Your macro questions will best be answered by the webmaster or other Nikon user/collector.
Roy
calphotography
Member
Listed on Ebay
Listed on Ebay
I have reluctantly started reducing my collection and have now posted this Orion outfit on ebay. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/ebayISAPl.dll?ViewItem&item=260320967646&indexURL=0&photoDisplayType=2#ebayphotohosting
Listed on Ebay
I have reluctantly started reducing my collection and have now posted this Orion outfit on ebay. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/ebayISAPl.dll?ViewItem&item=260320967646&indexURL=0&photoDisplayType=2#ebayphotohosting
wes loder
Photographer/Historian
numbers of Nikon Model I bellows
numbers of Nikon Model I bellows
Fred proposed that only about 150 of the first model Nikon bellows for the RF reflex housing were made. Actually the highest number I have found is 56206. There are no significant gaps in the range of numbers (lowest found other than prototypes is 56002), so I believe that we can safely state that NK made more than 200. This is not much of a correction. It is still a rare item.
NK made two batches. The lot came in vertical boxes, the second in horizontal boxes.
WES
numbers of Nikon Model I bellows
Fred proposed that only about 150 of the first model Nikon bellows for the RF reflex housing were made. Actually the highest number I have found is 56206. There are no significant gaps in the range of numbers (lowest found other than prototypes is 56002), so I believe that we can safely state that NK made more than 200. This is not much of a correction. It is still a rare item.
NK made two batches. The lot came in vertical boxes, the second in horizontal boxes.
WES
1948nikon
Established
Mirax in Australia
Mirax in Australia
Reading through this thread brings back memories of some very sad transactions. In the mid 60s in Australia a company I was working for acquired the Miranda agency from Watson Victor who had just taken on Rollei. Part of the the deal involved a large range of Mirax and Orion stock. The decision was made to offload all of this equipment except the Mirax Laborec and of course Miranda. The Mirax and Orion equipment ended up in dump bins at the Milversons retail stores. Keith from Brisbane would remember this chain of camera retailers.
All of this equipment was sold at ridiculous prices. You have got to remember that this was at the time of the S.L.R. glory-days. Having worked for both Nikon and Canon I have seen similar tragic transactions.
Hindsight etc !!!!!
Mirax in Australia
Reading through this thread brings back memories of some very sad transactions. In the mid 60s in Australia a company I was working for acquired the Miranda agency from Watson Victor who had just taken on Rollei. Part of the the deal involved a large range of Mirax and Orion stock. The decision was made to offload all of this equipment except the Mirax Laborec and of course Miranda. The Mirax and Orion equipment ended up in dump bins at the Milversons retail stores. Keith from Brisbane would remember this chain of camera retailers.
All of this equipment was sold at ridiculous prices. You have got to remember that this was at the time of the S.L.R. glory-days. Having worked for both Nikon and Canon I have seen similar tragic transactions.
Hindsight etc !!!!!