Which 90mm - purchasing artistic ability...

[tedwin]

Hi

Please could someone help push me one way or the other.

I have a biogon 28mm which I wish could be faster sometimes but otherwise good. A nokton 40mm which I love. A current 50mm summicron which I am always impressed by, but more by the image quality than the image (?!)
I have had my eye out for a 90mm for ages and have finally saved the funds for one. I can buy a 90mm elmarit-m (newest) or a 90mm v3 summicron for the same price. I want the elmarit because every one says its brilliant, tack sharp from wide open and with some special sparkle. I want the summicron because everyone says it has character. A little soft wide open with a special transition to oof areas.
I often struggle to introduce that sort of 'softly transient' look into my pictures, and usually use my 50mm for people shots. Is this part of the problem? Am I making a poor choice of lens? Should I buy the elmarit and learn how to make better use of available light or will shots with super crisp modern lenses always lack the gentle touch? Can I just buy the summicron and give myself a head start? Or is that just wishful thinking?

I fly off on holiday tomorrow, and only have today left for purchasing. Asking here bit of a last hope for decision!

Thanks in advance for any advice. Please limit suggestion to these two lenses.

 

[WoolenMammoth]

I cant comment on either lens, but the hexanon 90mm 2.8 is frighteningly amazing. If you want a 90 with a ton of character Id consider a tele elmarit, every time I use it I always am impressed with the goodness.

 

[amateriat]

"Character" is a rather subjective aspect in a lens: one person's flaw becomes another's beloved signature (sort of like asking someone to name their favorite guitarist). Having said this, I second WM's endorsement of the 90 M-Hex: I've been using one for the better part of six years, and one of the best things I can say about it is that it doesn't get in the way of my artistic ability (such as it is) by way of any technical peculiarites. The visually interesting stuff, IMO, should be happening before the lens, not within it.


- Barrett

 

[dof]

Based on your stated desires and frustrations, I'd say you'd be better off with the version 3 Summicron 90mm than the Elmarit. The additional stop along with the differences in designs will have a noticeable impact in the potential softness of the rendering.

As for using a 50mm lens as portrait lens - this in and of itself is not entirely a limiting factor regarding a soft or flattering look, however the 50mm Summicron is so well corrected that you may never see the sort of creamy look you're interested in.

Have fun with whichever you choose!

-J.

 

[tedwin]

one of the best things I can say about it is that it doesn't get in the way of my artistic ability (such as it is) by way of any technical peculiarites. The visually interesting stuff, IMO, should be happening before the lens, not within it.


- Barrett

You've hit the nail on the head here. I was hoping it wasn't true! So you think no nuance should be added by lens selection? (other than the technical - dof, perspective)

Also, thanks for replies so far, but as I stated I have the choice of two lenses, I have been considering all the 90's for ages, and have decided to choose between the two in the op. I am aware of the Konica's excellent reputation but would pick the current elmarit over it.

 

[tedwin]

Based on your stated desires and frustrations, I'd say you'd be better off with the version 3 Summicron 90mm than the Elmarit. The additional stop along with the differences in designs will have a noticeable impact in the potential softness of the rendering.

As for using a 50mm lens as portrait lens - this in and of itself is not entirely a limiting factor regarding a soft or flattering look, however the 50mm Summicron is so well corrected that you may never see the sort of creamy look it sounds as though you're interested in.

Have fun with whichever you choose!

-J.

Thank you. Music to my ears. 🙂

 

[tedwin]

So I decided on the Summicron. Think I paid top dollar for it, especially as it wasn't the model I had expected (it takes 49mm filters not 55mm)

Anyway, it had been coded and is spotless. It was also quite a drive :-/

Thanks again to those with speedy responses.

Ted.

 

[WoolenMammoth]

As for using a 50mm lens as portrait lens - this in and of itself is not entirely a limiting factor regarding a soft or flattering look, however the 50mm Summicron is so well corrected that you may never see the sort of creamy look you're interested in.

I shoot probably %95 of my portraits on a 50 and for the past two years probably %90 of my work has been portraits. If I had to pick one 50 to use in all situations it would almost certainly be the black tabless cron from the 70's, thats what, the third version I guess? That lens is ideal for portraits. I dont think I would want to use a modern cron for this application, but that third version is some kind of magic for shooting people.

 

[rpsawin]

I too am a fan of the Hexanon 90/2.8 And take a look at the CV 90/3.5...not a speed demon but an excellent performer.

Bob

 

[maddoc]

I had two Elmarit-Ms 90/2.8, hardly used them, sold them. Since I got my 90mm Summicron-M (E55), this FL became interesting again for me, a very good lens. 🙂

 

[amateriat]

You've hit the nail on the head here. I was hoping it wasn't true! So you think no nuance should be added by lens selection? (other than the technical - dof, perspective)

To paraphrase Mr. Eastwood's Man With No Name, every lens has its own signature, even those deemed by certain in-the-know sorts as "perfect" or "as close to perfect as any have come." Contemporary optics technology does come to bear even on lenses utilizing "classic" formulae (the 90 M-Hex being regarded as a latter-day Ernostar variant). But there's nothing wrong with choosing a lens on account of a certain "look."

Good luck with that Summicron!


- Barrett

 

[Hacker]

What about Summarex 85mm f1.5 or even the Nkkor 8.5cm f2 for character?

 

[ferider]

Hi Ted,

if it is indeed E49, you got yourself an early copy of the latest pre-asph, version 3, product nr. 11136, built between 1980 and 82. Identical optically to the E55 version.

V3 is a great lens - congratulations. Very neutral in signature, and, in my experience, sharp enough wide open even for smaller landscapes.

Here is an example shot with v3, showing the signature at f2.8 or so.

Cheers,

Roland.

 

[tedwin]

Hi Ted,

if it is indeed E49, you got yourself an early copy of the latest pre-asph, version 3, product nr. 11136, built between 1980 and 82. Identical optically to the E55 version.

That's the one. Bunged a quick roll through when I got home pics of dog etc. Framing is more accurate compared to my wider lenses, no bits chopped off but nearly! Will have to be careful. Appears perfectly good to me wide open and lots of lovely creamy bits. I shot almost entirely at f2 or 2.8 and not a single shot was out of focus. A testament to the ZI viewfinder / rangefinder.

Cool.

 

[payasam]

Can a lens, or any other material object, confer artistic ability on its purchaser? Sorry if I've taken the question too literally.

 

[tedwin]

Can a lens, or any other material object, confer artistic ability on its purchaser? Sorry if I've taken the question too literally.

Of course not. I was joking 🙂

But, I remember what first got me interested in photography. I was sitting at a computer trying to blur the background of a photograph I had taken with a compact digital I was given as a birthday present. After about 30 minutes I had that eureka moment, surely I would be better off taking the photo properly in the first place, now how do I do that.......


With the equipment I have purchased over the years since then I can take pictures which I couldn't have without. I'm no more an artist than ever, but I have the tools to capture what I see in my minds eye which I didn't before.

 

[raid]

I have an old model Summicron with built-in hood. I don't know whether it is V1 or V2. I is heavy, but well balanced on an M3, and it is a great lens overall.

 

[Dave Wilkinson]

Can a lens, or any other material object, confer artistic ability on its purchaser? Sorry if I've taken the question too literally.

.......of course it can!...why!....!'ve done some wonderfully artistic things with my Jupiters! 😉.....if I could afford 'crons and 'lux's, the sky would be the limit!! 😀

 

[Al Kaplan]

Hacker, the 85mm f/2 Nikkor doesn't have "character" ~ it's the standard by which all the others should be evaluated. Everybody I know who's tried it ended up tracking one down to purchase, and they're not making any more of them.

To answer the original question, there is no answer. Purchase either lens, and then learn what you can do with it, get familiar with it, learn to love it. Like the song lyrics go: "If you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with"...but you'll always have moments where you'll wonder what might have been if only you'd purchased the other lens.

 

[payasam]

Does age spoil us, Al? For a quarter of a century I was content with what I had, although of course it had its limitations: but for some years I've found myself dreaming more and more of what I don't have. It's only in part a matter of wanting to try out things I've heard about. RFF must take much of the blame for my corruption.