Shutter remains closed on Fujica V2 (oil on the blades)

[wojtek]

Hello there

First of all, I want to say hello - I have just joined the forum. Nice to meet you all

I have an old Fujica V2 which - apart from shutter not working - is in immaculate condition. I got it by an accident, along with... the developing tank I have bought. Ha! Anyway, it needs new light seals, but this is something I can do myself as I've done it in the past. The main trouble is the shutter; I can see there is oil on the blades, and even after a proper rewind - while something "clicks" inside, as it should - the shutter remains closed. Blah.

The question is: is there anyone around who could repair it for me? I have tried emailing Mr. Taylor in UK, but the email returned (maybe the address I have is wrong...)

It's such a nice camera that I would like to use it - can't even think about throwing it away. Any help will be appreciated!

Thanks for help!

Wojtek

 

[wojtek]

No one can help? Boo...

 

[bmattock]

Sorry for the delay responding, I nearly missed your post entirely.

The Fujica V2 is commonly found with a stuck shutter, just as you described.

You can have it repaired at most camera repair shops - I'm sorry I don't know where one would be near you. It requires what is known as a CLA (clean, lube, adjust).

You can also try to fix it yourself, if you're keen to try. What is required is a spanner-type wrench to remove the front lens elements, q-tips, and liquid cigarette lighter fluid, sold as 'Ronsonol' or 'Zippo Lighter Fluid' in the USA (also known here as 'naptha'). It's a liquid that evaporates quickly and has the property of dissolving the lubricants that frequently dry and stick shutter and aperture blades on leaf-shutter cameras.

I haven't the time at the moment to go through the entire process - but you can find numerous references to it here, or via Google. I find it works about 2/3 of the time for me - and I'm cheap so I'm usually willing to give it a try.

If not, though, it is a easy fix for a camera repair person.

It should be a good camera for you. I've not had a working V2, but I have owned most of the rest of the compact Fujica series of rangefinders, and find them quite nice in general (all are prone to this shutter sticking business).

Good luck!

 

[wojtek]

Thank you very much for your reply! I have some Zippo fluid at home, I have used it before for dissolving old light seals. I have googled for the repair instructions but haven't found anything, unfortunately. The one thing I am scared of is that I'll unscrew the lens and I won't be able to put it back together; and that I'll stay with a handful of weird-looking elements

I may just give it to you for the repair. Private message sent!

Cheers
Wojtek

 

[bmattock]

Thank you very much for your reply! I have some Zippo fluid at home, I have used it before for dissolving old light seals. I have googled for the repair instructions but haven't found anything, unfortunately. The one thing I am scared of is that I'll unscrew the lens and I won't be able to put it back together; and that I'll stay with a handful of weird-looking elements

I may just give it to you for the repair. Private message sent!

Cheers
Wojtek

Fortunately, the lens front comes out as one unit. No extra bits and bobs. Once that comes out, the shutter is exposed. I generally put a drop or two of lighter fluid right on it, let it sink in a bit, and then begin to (gently) massage the blades of the shutter with the end of a q-tip soaked in lighter fluid. I keep doing this while exercising the shutter and release - it may 'click' and not open a few times, but if it is going to work at all, eventually it will pop open - generally surprising you. At that point, I switch to clean dry q-tips and massage up / polish the shutter blades until they are both clean and dry, no residue when the shutter opens/closes. This takes time, one just has to be patient and keep at it. Keep exercising the shutter, trying it at different speeds.

Then I let it sit out overnight in a warm place and try it again in the morning. Sometimes it is stuck again. If so, I go through the exercise again. Then I let it all dry out, screw the front element back in, clean everything up, and I'm good to go.

I try not to let too much fluid leak onto the shutter - it can drip behind to the aperture blades, and from there onto the rear element of the lens. This is a bugger to clean, you have to have the shutter on B and the aperture wide open and then clean the inside of the rear element gently whilst holding the shutter release down (or use a locking cable release). So I try not to have to do that by not going overboard with the lighter fluid.

There are a number of places in the US that will do a proper CLA (by disassembly, really the better way to do it properly), but I do not know whom to recommend in the UK. Can anyone chime in here?

 

[wojtek]

Thank you very much once again.

There is a local repair camera shop not too far away from me, so I'll give it a try. Or maybe I'll even try myself; not sure how to get the lens off the body (that seems like the most complicated task), but... Well, it's going to be fine this or the other way.

Thanks!

 

[FallisPhoto]

Thank you very much for your reply! I have some Zippo fluid at home, I have used it before for dissolving old light seals. I have googled for the repair instructions but haven't found anything, unfortunately. The one thing I am scared of is that I'll unscrew the lens and I won't be able to put it back together; and that I'll stay with a handful of weird-looking elements

I may just give it to you for the repair. Private message sent!

Cheers
Wojtek

1. Use a lens wrench to remove the front and center lens elements. Make sure to make notes on which lens goes where. On some lenses you can accidentally mix up the elements.
2. Open the back of the camera and use a lens wrench to remove the rear lens element.
3. Open aperture all the way up.
4. Wet one end of a cotton swab and rub gently at the shutter blades. Swab should be really wet.
5. Work shutter a couple of times (it should move now).
6. Turn cotton swab over and mop up the (now dirty) lighter fluid.
7. Repeat steps 4 through 6 on other side of shutter blades with a fresh swab.
8. Repeat over and over again, using a fresh swab each time, until no sign of oil is on blades.
9. Let all the naptha dry up and try the shutter. If the shutter is stuck again, you didn't get it all and you'll have to continue swabbing.
10. Usually takes around 50 swabbings per side, alternating wet and dry. It's tedious, but it works. If it doesn't, you likely have more than an oil problem.
11. Once you have the shutter working, let the shutter air out for 12 hours or so and replace the lenses. As long as the elements are out, clean them first though. You also might want to clean the threads that hold the lenses in place and relube them (very sparingly). No lube goes on the threads of the center element(s).

 

[FallisPhoto]

not sure how to get the lens off the body (that seems like the most complicated task)

It would be, but fortunately, you don't have to do that. The lens barrel and shutter stay in place. You just unscrew the lens elements. There is a ring surrounding each lens element (or lens group, depending on what kind of lens you have). On opposing sides of the ring are small notches. The blades of a lens wrench engage these notches and you just unscrew the rings, with the glass lens elements.

I could do it for you (I clean and restore vintage and antique cameras), but I am not in the UK.

 

[hedgehog]

Thank you all for your great help, guys. I have - luckily - found a person I trust a lot, who can try to restore the camera for me. So it should be fine. But if not - I'll knock this door again or I will try myself. Thanks a lot!

Regards
Wojtek

 

[btgc]

Oh guys, I love the smell of naphtha! It smells like a victory!

Recently besides RF's I even used it to enhance P&S which had stiffened release mechanism from sitting too long in drawer.

 

[Tony-S]

I just came into a Fujica V2 with a stuck shutter and I plan to do the cleaning as described by FallisPhoto - if I can find a lens wrench or spanner that will work. I have polyester swabs instead of cotton swabs; I use these to clean the sensor on my DSLR, so will they also work? They do not leave any fibers behind so I would think they would be better. The rangefinder is also off a bit. The ghost image moves left and right just fine, but it is substantially higher than the actual image in the viewfinder. Is this an easy fix? I have not tested the meter yet but will tonight. Also, I understand the aperture blades can get stuck sometimes? If so, do those also get cleaned with lighter fluid and swabs?

I really appreciate the time people take to respond to these questions. The internet sure makes the world a lot smaller.

 

[Sarcophilus Harrisii]

I just came into a Fujica V2 with a stuck shutter and I plan to do the cleaning as described by FallisPhoto - if I can find a lens wrench or spanner that will work. I have polyester swabs instead of cotton swabs; I use these to clean the sensor on my DSLR, so will they also work? They do not leave any fibers behind so I would think they would be better. The rangefinder is also off a bit. The ghost image moves left and right just fine, but it is substantially higher than the actual image in the viewfinder. Is this an easy fix? I have not tested the meter yet but will tonight. Also, I understand the aperture blades can get stuck sometimes? If so, do those also get cleaned with lighter fluid and swabs?

I really appreciate the time people take to respond to these questions. The internet sure makes the world a lot smaller.

Hi Tony,
I have never owned a V2 but have a few older Fujica rf from the early 1960s including the 35-SE & 35-EE. I have had the top off those a couple of times. They're slightly easier because they are a bottom winder but the V2 doesn't look too bad. You will need to get the top off, what from I can see in some pics I googled, in order to reach the RF adjustment screws. If you are going to do this I suggest you check the taking lens focus and the rf patch focus against infinity while you are in there. Naturally the rf focus must correctly coincide with the lens focus on the film plane.

It looks like a pin wrench or rubber tool is all that is required to get the wind lever off. Being a rear thumb wheel focus like the older Fujica RF, you just need to loosen the two screws on the outer serrated wheel your thumb slides on first. The wheel has a flat machined into it. With the screws loose, slide the wheel around until the flat faces the back and then the top cover will slip off over the flat on the focus wheel. Sneaky! You won't lose your focus by loosening the wheel, it is just there for your thumb to actuate and once loosened will 'freewheel' around the inner wheel which does set focus. You may have to position the lens focus to infinity before you loosen off the screws, it's been a few years and I can't recall precisely.

Of course the side mounted rewind crank has to come off also. This should be just one centre screw holding the crank handle onto the key on the rewind gear shaft (they have a little bevel gear set to turn the drive from the end shaft down to the rewind shaft itself, it's kind of neat actually).

The round DOF indicator has a spring clip and washer underneath it. It's positioned as I recall by a couple of tabs that engage the washer etc. Just make a note of where it sits at infinity, before you take the cover off, so it can be re-set correctly, no real surprises or problems there, though, it's not hard to work out.

It has been a few years, as I said, since I had the cover off a Fujica RF, but I don't recall any difficulties with the RF adjustment. I would expect the V2 to have the usual two screws for vertical and horizontal adjustment like the older models. I had to set up one of the ones I pulled apart from scratch, when I replaced the prism that had discoloured badly, and was able to do this without incident (actually, it was the 35-EE that started me on the slippery slope of DIY camera repair, but that's another story for another time!).

I have not needed to get into the shutter of any of my Fujicas, happily. I have heard they are devilishly complex, and not known for necessarily working correctly again, if stripped down and re-assembled. I would therefore caution you not to be too liberal with the lighter fluid. I would not really want to have to open one up, if it could possibly be avoided. In your shoes, my aim would be to do clean the shutter blades in the first instance, without delving deeper.

So this means conventional flood cleaning is not the best approach, as it will loosen up a lot of lube, and send it through the shutter and into the escapements, where it will do more harm than good. Probably better, then, to lightly moisten a swab, wipe the blades, wipe off residue with a dry swab, and fire shutter. Repeat ad nauseum, until it fires good.

Bear in mind, too, that naptha is not a lubricant in the conventional sense. But, my experience with Compur shutters has been that a shutter that is not properly clean, can fire correctly for a few hours or a day, until all naptha has flashed off. So it really is necessary, in my opinion, if you aren't stripping a shutter right down (and for the aforementioned reasons, I don't recommend you do with this example), to leave the camera a day or two to dry off and recheck for correct function. If it fires perfectly on all speeds a few dozen times, a couple of days, later you are probably good to go.

In some rf or TLR installations, it could be argued that if aperture blades will move correctly on adjustment with a little oil on them, there's not that much to gain, by touching them. This is in contrast to an auto aperture set up, such as an SLRs, that requires the blades to rapidly stop down, when the shutter is pressed.

I note, however that the V2 features shutter priority auto exposure, linked to the built-in meter. This generally entails a spring powered linkage driven from the meter, that will stop the aperture blades down to the required exposure value.

If there is also oil on the aperture blades, it is therefore quite possible the camera will operate correctly used manually. But, any oil contamination is likely to make the blades sluggish enough to mean that they will not respond quickly enough to the spring, in auto mode.

Given this, unless you are content to use the camera manually only, it seems likely you are going to have to gently wipe the aperture blades with lighter fluid, as well. These are generally much thinner, and more delicate, than shutter blades, so a careful touch is needed. The main thing is not to catch the swab on the edge of a blade, and, if you look at the way the blades close together, there is usually one direction (clockwise or counter-clockwise) that is likely to minimise the likelihood of this, if you wipe the swab accordingly.

By selecting bulb speed and using a locking cable release, you can keep the shutter open to access these from the front. I would expect the Fujica will have a couple of notches in the rear lens mount for a lens spanner to be applied. Again, make a note of the position of the mount relative to the camera body for correct re-installation. By removing the rear lens group, not only will you prevent contamination of this, it will also enable you to access shutter and aperture blades, from both sides, making the in situ cleaning more effective.

You may also want to open the aperture up slightly as well, because, of course, with it fully closed, there are portions of the blades covered by each other. Again, it is necessary to use the bare minimum of lighter fluid, to prevent it spreading to areas it is unwanted, and, you will need to manually open and close the blades periodically, to work the contamination to the surface. Periodically change the swabs, to avoid simply re-applying the contaminants back onto the shutter/aperture blades.

This method is a short cut of sorts, as opposed to shutter removal and complete strip down. However, given a methodical and patient approach, eventually, it should be effective, although, be prepared to put a couple of hours or more into the cleaning process, and do not be too surprised if, after the first attempt, you find it needs further effort. This isn't that unusual, and simply means it is not quite clean enough (hence my suggestion to leave it a day or so and re-check).

Keep us posted, and good luck!
Regards,
Brett

 

[Tony-S]

Brett, thanks very much for the detailed response. The spanner wrenches arrive Monday so I plan to remove both the front and rear elements (and give them a good cleaning, too). Do you think it would be advantageous to use polyester swabs for the aperture blades, since they do not leave fibers behind? I use these for cleaning my digital camera's sensor.

I'm ok using the camera for manual only, but it would be nice if the shutter speed priority worked. I did put a battery in and the needle moves, but it seems to be jammed a bit since its movements appear to be constrained a bit.

 

[Sarcophilus Harrisii]

Hi Tony,
I don't have any experience of the polyester swabs, but if they leave no fibres behind and are safe to use with sensors, I can't imagine them causing any harm to a mechanical shutter. If the cost of these is an issue, lint-free lens cleaning tissue scrunched into small wads also works quite well (aided by suitable tweezers, if necessary).

To recap briefly, your aim should be to moisten the shutter/aperture blades slightly with the swab, to loosen and remove the evaporated lube that has congealed, without actually flooding same into the shutter or other areas of the camera. Takes a little longer than flood cleaning, but less risk of collateral damage to the shutter internals, which you should try to avoid at all costs, in this instance.

Incidentally. I would also caution you to keep fluids well away from the prism assembly, as these old Fujicas do seem very prone to what I assume is balsam deterioration where the two-part prism is bonded together (I have seen a few cases of this, now). In one instance, the prism went brown rapidly, after I had been inside the top cover. Rather sheepishly, I have to confess I had used small quantities of super glue, to re-attach the frame line mask to its mount (well, as I mentioned, it was my first camera repair - I know better now!). Whether this, or the lighter fluid used for some cleaning, reacted with the bonding agent, I can't say for sure, but, I do know that a couple of days later, my nice new (to me) fully working 35-EE suddenly developed a brown stain in the prism that rapidly became terminal. Hence, I would suggest you use extreme caution to ensure no fluids encroach in the vicinity of the prism, and if they are needed, for any reason, to ensure good ventilation and also to leave the top off long enough to prevent damage by fumes.

Since it seems likely the top is coming off for RF adjustment anyway, giving the electrical contacts on the cell a clean while you are in there is probably not a bad move. FWIW the selenium meter fitted to my 35-EE continues to work. I have not run any transparency through it but it meters colour neg beautifully and seems fairly close to my Minolta light meter.

I feel these Fujica rangefinders are somewhat under rated. Certainly they are not the smallest or lightest of RF designs but I think the Fujinon lenses are quite good and I like the images I get from mine. If you need any inspiration, have a search over at PN for some of the discussions Rick Drawbridge has added with images of his Fujica collection of RF, and photographs taken with same.

Regards,
Brett

 

[Tony-S]

Hi Brett,

I got the shutter working but the aperture does not stop down when I turn its ring. Any tips for getting it to work? Also, neither my pointed nor slotted spanner wrench can fit into the back of the camera to remove the rear element so that I can clean the other sides of the blades. Any tricks for getting it out?

Thanks,

Tony

 

[Steve M.]

You shouldn't have to clean the other side of the blades. It takes a while, but just keep dabbing & cleaning the Q-Tips w/ some lighter fluid on them, and you'll end up getting both sides of the blades clean. It helps to let it all dry for 5 minutes or so, then do some more swabbing.

I'm not sure what's involved w/ the aperture blades though. That may be a little trickier.

 

[Tony-S]

Steve, I have the shutter working fine, so I'll forgo the rear element removal. I hope the aperture blades are not too difficult to get going.

 

[Sarcophilus Harrisii]

Hi Brett,

I got the shutter working but the aperture does not stop down when I turn its ring. Any tips for getting it to work? Also, neither my pointed nor slotted spanner wrench can fit into the back of the camera to remove the rear element so that I can clean the other sides of the blades. Any tricks for getting it out?

Thanks,

Tony

Hi Tony,
unless there has been a mechanical malfunction I suspect that the aperture blades may be stuck due to contamination. Have you also tried cleaning these?
If not, try a single good drop of lighter fluid onto the blades through the open shutter. This may help break the surface tension of the oil and they may start to move. If so, at least you have identified the problem, and of course further cleaning is the solution.

But sometimes they will want to stick if they are damp or wet, even with lighter fluid. Another possibility is that they need to dry out and may function once dry. You may want to give the camera a day or two for this reason in the event it improves by itself, first.

Regards,
Brett

 

[Sarcophilus Harrisii]

You shouldn't have to clean the other side of the blades. It takes a while, but just keep dabbing & cleaning the Q-Tips w/ some lighter fluid on them, and you'll end up getting both sides of the blades clean. It helps to let it all dry for 5 minutes or so, then do some more swabbing.

I'm not sure what's involved w/ the aperture blades though. That may be a little trickier.

Yes, absolutely. If you persevere from the front you do get there. Removing the rear lens to give access to both sides just speeds the process up a bit, but as you say, eventually with cleaning and exercise you'll pull all the junk to the front.

When I'm doing a Rollei TLR I'll take the rear lens out, it's quick and easy to remove and prevents scratching etc. But if I clean a late Contaflex shutter (if I don't take the shutter right out of the body) I'll leave the rear lens group firmly in place. These have an eccentric mount, and Zeiss do not recommend removal under any circumstances! I have to attack the cleaning of these from the front only.
Regards,
Brett

 

[Tony-S]

Here's a photo of the shutter open and the front element removed. The aperture blades appear to be behind the shutter blades. I wonder what those four screws are for.

Brett, I'll wait a couple of days and then give it a go on the aperture blades with the shutter locked open. Hopefully this is a simple fix.