millfields
Newbie
I'm a complete novice to film processing but had several years with digital. I need some advice on the pros and cons of B&W film processing. I would imagine doing it myself would be cheaper and more creative but I don't have a dark room.
thanks
thanks
capitalK
Warrior Poet :P
For me price has been a big factor. I have no labs in town that do it so it gets sent away. A roll of 36 comes back over $20 Canadian with one set of prints. Right now I am borrowing a darkroom to develop and print contact sheets and I couldn't be happier.
It just feels good knowing that from start to finish all the work is done by me.
It just feels good knowing that from start to finish all the work is done by me.
MartinP
Veteran
There is no need to have a darkroom to develop film.
There is no need to have a darkroom to make wet-prints either.
In "ye olde-days", when many people did their own black-and-white printing, almost no-one ever had a dedicated darkroom. Any room, or large cupboard, which can be made reasonably light-tight (eg. at night) can be used to make prints. Most people in this forum probably still work on that basis now.
There is no need to have a darkroom to make wet-prints either.
In "ye olde-days", when many people did their own black-and-white printing, almost no-one ever had a dedicated darkroom. Any room, or large cupboard, which can be made reasonably light-tight (eg. at night) can be used to make prints. Most people in this forum probably still work on that basis now.
Al Kaplan
Veteran
I've developed lots of film and made plenty of prints in make shift set-ups. It's very easy to do. A tank and reels, measuring cups, accurate thermometer, clock, and a few clothes pins (wood works best) are all you need for film developing
You can even mount safe-lights on light stands and stick 'em in a closet when you're through. A towel pushed up against the bottom of the door lets you leave the lights on in the next room. For contact sheets have your local glass company cut a piece of 1/4 inch glass to about 9x12" and round the corners and edges. Ask if they have a "scrap" of thick glass. You just might get it cheaper if you put it into their head that that you'll actually pay money for something they'd probably be throwing out anyway. That and a plain ordinary 60 watt light bulb in a socket with a pull chain overhead is all you need to expose contact sheets. Check your local dollar store. They might have plastic storage containers big enough to use for trays. If they're too deep cut 'em down. The only two chemicals you'll need are fixer and a developer like Dektol. Two liter soda bottles make great storage containers for them. If you don't drink Coke or Pepsi then buy the cheap 69 cents a bottle brands and dump the soda down the drain. D-76 and fixer plus a wetting agent like Photo-Flo are all you need to develop film. While you're at the dollar store get some measuring cups. No, they won't be accurate but if you fill the same cup to the 8 ounce level with D-76 and then do it with water you'll have a perfect 1:1 mix even if it doesn't end up exactly 16 oz. in the bigger cup. I bought a set of three measuring cups together at the dollar store. At this point you might have spent thirty or forty Canadian dollars.
Then you can keep an eye open for an enlarger at yard sales. They go for next to nothing at yard sales, but ONLY when you don't really want one. Well, buy it just in case you suddenly decide that you DO want one.
You can even mount safe-lights on light stands and stick 'em in a closet when you're through. A towel pushed up against the bottom of the door lets you leave the lights on in the next room. For contact sheets have your local glass company cut a piece of 1/4 inch glass to about 9x12" and round the corners and edges. Ask if they have a "scrap" of thick glass. You just might get it cheaper if you put it into their head that that you'll actually pay money for something they'd probably be throwing out anyway. That and a plain ordinary 60 watt light bulb in a socket with a pull chain overhead is all you need to expose contact sheets. Check your local dollar store. They might have plastic storage containers big enough to use for trays. If they're too deep cut 'em down. The only two chemicals you'll need are fixer and a developer like Dektol. Two liter soda bottles make great storage containers for them. If you don't drink Coke or Pepsi then buy the cheap 69 cents a bottle brands and dump the soda down the drain. D-76 and fixer plus a wetting agent like Photo-Flo are all you need to develop film. While you're at the dollar store get some measuring cups. No, they won't be accurate but if you fill the same cup to the 8 ounce level with D-76 and then do it with water you'll have a perfect 1:1 mix even if it doesn't end up exactly 16 oz. in the bigger cup. I bought a set of three measuring cups together at the dollar store. At this point you might have spent thirty or forty Canadian dollars.
Then you can keep an eye open for an enlarger at yard sales. They go for next to nothing at yard sales, but ONLY when you don't really want one. Well, buy it just in case you suddenly decide that you DO want one.
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mcgrattan
Well-known
Developing your own film [for scanning] is easy and requires very little equipment. A tank, a changing bag and some chemicals. It's much cheaper than sending them away to get developed.
I found creating a working darkroom a real hassle in my own place [too small, nowhere that could be made light tight except on a temporary basis, etc.] but it was do-able [just frustrating] and again, very cheap. If you have a little space in a room that can be made light-tight, it's no problem.
I found creating a working darkroom a real hassle in my own place [too small, nowhere that could be made light tight except on a temporary basis, etc.] but it was do-able [just frustrating] and again, very cheap. If you have a little space in a room that can be made light-tight, it's no problem.
Rhoyle
Well-known
+1 to all the above. I think the easiest way to get your feet wet (no pun intended) is to use a roll of TMax with TMax developer. It's quite easy. Just follow the instructions. Make sure you keep an eye on your temperatures. Keep all chemicals at the same temp. After you're comfortable with that you can branch out to other combinations. You may find the results you get from going the Tmax route are quite good.
mcgrattan
Well-known
Oh yeah, re: trays.
The cheapest source I found was a pet shop. Plastic cat litter trays are perfect and I was able to buy them very cheaply -- I think I paid about 5 UKP for 3.
As Al says, enlargers are often next to nothing. I paid about 10 UKP for mine [which I later gave away]. That was for an old British made enlarger that would do up to 6x9.
The cheapest source I found was a pet shop. Plastic cat litter trays are perfect and I was able to buy them very cheaply -- I think I paid about 5 UKP for 3.
As Al says, enlargers are often next to nothing. I paid about 10 UKP for mine [which I later gave away]. That was for an old British made enlarger that would do up to 6x9.
bmattock
Veteran
As 'mcgratton' said, you do not need to wet-print or enlarge, which makes the whole process a lot more manageable. I do it in a small apartment, and before that, I did it in a 9x12 room I rented in a flophouse in Detroit.
You do not need a darkroom, or even a room you can make dark - nothing at all like that.
All you need is a changing bag (that's your 'darkroom' for putting the film in the tank), developer, fixer, and a developing tank. Something to measure with, a cheap digital thermometer, and running water. The total could be as low as $50 USD if you keep it simple.
Then you need a scanner for your negs. You can get a dedicated film scanner or a flatbed which has the capability to do negatives/slides. The dedicated film scanners tend to to a better job, but they cost more.
I amortized the cost of my scanners versus the cost of having processing done - it pays for itself very quickly.
Good luck, have fun.
You do not need a darkroom, or even a room you can make dark - nothing at all like that.
All you need is a changing bag (that's your 'darkroom' for putting the film in the tank), developer, fixer, and a developing tank. Something to measure with, a cheap digital thermometer, and running water. The total could be as low as $50 USD if you keep it simple.
Then you need a scanner for your negs. You can get a dedicated film scanner or a flatbed which has the capability to do negatives/slides. The dedicated film scanners tend to to a better job, but they cost more.
I amortized the cost of my scanners versus the cost of having processing done - it pays for itself very quickly.
Good luck, have fun.
russianRF
Fed 5C User
Most everyone I've talked to who doesn't do their own black and white is daunted by all that's involved. Most everyone I've known who has bitten the bullet and committed to it hasn't been sorry.
You WILL make mistakes, and you should be prepared to sacrifice the first couple of rolls. But it's not as bad as it might sound, and once you get good at it, B&W film developing is kind of calming and zen-like, like gardening. Seeing how your negs come out after you're done processing them is always fun; you can generally predict what you have developed but there are usually always a nice surprise or two. And processing your own film is the next best thing to the instant gratification of digital -- you get the negs on YOUR schedule, not some lab's.
I would seriously consider getting a good film scanner. Get a Nikon if you can afford it, or a good Epson if you have a tighter budget. With a scanner, once your film is dry it really is as immediate and instantly gratifying as digital. Even after I learned how to make good analogue B&W prints, I still prefer digital scanning for contact sheets, archival backups, etc.
You WILL make mistakes, and you should be prepared to sacrifice the first couple of rolls. But it's not as bad as it might sound, and once you get good at it, B&W film developing is kind of calming and zen-like, like gardening. Seeing how your negs come out after you're done processing them is always fun; you can generally predict what you have developed but there are usually always a nice surprise or two. And processing your own film is the next best thing to the instant gratification of digital -- you get the negs on YOUR schedule, not some lab's.
I would seriously consider getting a good film scanner. Get a Nikon if you can afford it, or a good Epson if you have a tighter budget. With a scanner, once your film is dry it really is as immediate and instantly gratifying as digital. Even after I learned how to make good analogue B&W prints, I still prefer digital scanning for contact sheets, archival backups, etc.
cosmonaut
Well-known
I agree with the others. I have to either send it off or do it myself. If you get a tank and reels get a couple of bad rolls and practice loading the reels in the dark. It can be tricky that is actually the hardest part. You don't need a bag if you can get in a room and make it dark enough. Once in the tank it's just mixing soup. Look on e-bay for a tank. Don't get a stainless one just yet. They are a pain to load.
bmattock
Veteran
If you get KodakCraft aprons, you don't need reels, plastic or stainless steel, and they're no bother to load because you don't load them. No muss, no fuss, no trickiness, no mistakes.
eli griggs
Well-known
I'll add that you don't even need running water to develop, just some jugs of H2O, distilled for chemicals and tap for washing with the Ilford method and a bucket to dump the waste into. That way your water will be at the same temp as your chemistry, if kept stored with same; even if you do have running water available, it's just not needed for film.
"Pick one film and one developer and stick with it for a year" is often advice given for newbes and I can't disagree.
A lot of folks like Tri-X (Arista Premium 400 at Freestyle) and HC-110 at dilution H, using a syringe to take the syrup straight from the bottle for a long (read indefinite) shelf-life.
D-76 is also a great developer for this film but has a limited life once mixed, something that requires the entire package.
Don't bother with stop-bath, use water, and do use Photo-Flo, not Dawn or Joy or other dish detergent as a wetting agent and dry your films in the bathroom, after you've run the shower with hot water to settle out any dust in the air.
Go ahead and do this for yourself, you'll get better results and probably have a ball.
Eli
"Pick one film and one developer and stick with it for a year" is often advice given for newbes and I can't disagree.
A lot of folks like Tri-X (Arista Premium 400 at Freestyle) and HC-110 at dilution H, using a syringe to take the syrup straight from the bottle for a long (read indefinite) shelf-life.
D-76 is also a great developer for this film but has a limited life once mixed, something that requires the entire package.
Don't bother with stop-bath, use water, and do use Photo-Flo, not Dawn or Joy or other dish detergent as a wetting agent and dry your films in the bathroom, after you've run the shower with hot water to settle out any dust in the air.
Go ahead and do this for yourself, you'll get better results and probably have a ball.
Eli
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mh2000
Well-known
for 35mm and scanning I mainly do BW400CN film because it is so easy, inexpensive and gives such great results... nothing wrong with that. C41 is better for scanning because you get to use DigitalICE.
In LF and MF I develop my own, no problems. Start with D76 for 35mm or Rodinal for MF & LF... both bonehead easy to use.
In LF and MF I develop my own, no problems. Start with D76 for 35mm or Rodinal for MF & LF... both bonehead easy to use.
millfields
Newbie
Thanks to everyone for your replies. A clear consensus for doing it yourself. I'm encouraged by the relative low cost. I thought I would need a dedicated room with complex (& expensive) equipment.
cheers
cheers
Gumby
Veteran
I opt for lab processing of all of my film - time is less available to me than money lately, given that there is still a lab nearby that processes B&W as well as E-g and C41 with good quality and prices in my area.
iamzip
Ambitious, but rubbish
I process b&w myself and scan using a flatbed. You can buy a refurbished Epson for about $100. It is not as much fun as wet printing, but doesn't require the investment in equipment or trying to lightproof a room (assuming you have a reasonably up to date computer). You can use a changing bag or light tight room to load exposed film into the tank, after that everything can be done in the light. I use Diafine to develop film, it is a two part developer that is very easy because time and temperature have virtually no effect on the developing process. I have even heard of someone leaving the film in the developer overnight and still having the negs turn out okay. There is a good article on diafine over on toycamera.com.
crawdiddy
qu'est-ce que c'est?
We have decent commercial pro labs in Dallas, but the last time I used them, they sleeved my negatives in some kind of plastic sheath, leaving it rolled up. That resulted in creases along the length of the entire roll, where the plastic sleeve was overlapped. The creases show up when I printed them.
The only reason I took it to the pro lab is that my own processing sometimes has issues. From now on, I'll take my chances with my own processing.
The only reason I took it to the pro lab is that my own processing sometimes has issues. From now on, I'll take my chances with my own processing.
tyrone.s
Well-known
A real pro for DIY will be that you'll probably get better, less scratched negatives. I started B&W by having a lab take care of it for me and the negatives always came back with a whole heap of scratches - well I thought they were a lot of scratches for A$10 a roll for develop only. I don't get scratching problems when I develop at home. The developing itself is very easy (I use a basic tank, darkbag, aquarium thermometer and basic measuring jugs
Of course you might have better labs where you are and you might not like developing (hey sweaty hands in a dark bag and some &^%& film that won't go onto the spool isn't everyone's idea of a rewarding creative experience). But OTOH, you can push your film, you can vary how you develop - dilutions, time, technique, experiment with caffenol. Lots of options.
I use Rodinal and I've found it very simple to use, very easy to mix (it's a liquid), forgiving for temperature and available to me!
At the moment I make a contact sheet with a flatbed scanner and then I use an OpticFilm 7200 to scan shots that I want to pursue.
Good luck
Of course you might have better labs where you are and you might not like developing (hey sweaty hands in a dark bag and some &^%& film that won't go onto the spool isn't everyone's idea of a rewarding creative experience). But OTOH, you can push your film, you can vary how you develop - dilutions, time, technique, experiment with caffenol. Lots of options.
I use Rodinal and I've found it very simple to use, very easy to mix (it's a liquid), forgiving for temperature and available to me!
At the moment I make a contact sheet with a flatbed scanner and then I use an OpticFilm 7200 to scan shots that I want to pursue.
Good luck
Nate Butler
Established
I began developing my B&W negatives about 3 weeks ago, and I am so glad I started. I picked up all my gear and chemicals from a local store for 50% off (score!), and jumped right in. It's already paid for itself, and the results are better than what I was getting from local shops. It's harder to make fudge than to develop your own film.
You may want to take a look at this video. After I watched it a couple of times I started in.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vu0Ul_wsYO8
You may want to take a look at this video. After I watched it a couple of times I started in.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vu0Ul_wsYO8
Aziz
Established
You definitely don't need a darkroom to develop b&w film.
Here's what I do:
I use a bathroom in the basement and turn all of the lights off when loading the film.
After that I use my kitchen counter to house all of the chemicals I'll need. I use the sink faucet for the water rinse after developing and for the final wash stage. I have a timer as well.
For drying I hang the negatives in my bathroom shower. To get rid of dust in the air I turn on the shower (hot water) for about 4-5 minutes. Do this before hanging your negatives
Here's what I do:
I use a bathroom in the basement and turn all of the lights off when loading the film.
After that I use my kitchen counter to house all of the chemicals I'll need. I use the sink faucet for the water rinse after developing and for the final wash stage. I have a timer as well.
For drying I hang the negatives in my bathroom shower. To get rid of dust in the air I turn on the shower (hot water) for about 4-5 minutes. Do this before hanging your negatives