Matus
Well-known
I do street photography rarely, but all this long (and interesting) discussion still leaves one question: How can you use a photo of somebody (who is at least one of the main subjects in it) commercially without having a written permission to do so?
ClaremontPhoto
Jon Claremont
I don't know.
Although my work isn't commercial.
It is seen publicly, but not for any gain.
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JayC
5 kids,3 dogs,only 1 wife
You can't use their image to endorse anything. You can sell the image yourself (as art), but it can't be put in an ad.
Gumby
Veteran
About the only place I do "street" is in our local Chinatown. Since I'm not Asian it is perfectly apparent that I'm a tourist with a camera. Since I don't speak even enough Chinese to order lunch, the smile is a key to a happy day for both me and the subjects. Most either smile back or just keep going about their business. No sneaking or 'getting caught' necessary. Smiling is good!
Gumby
Veteran
I'm with you. It is a complex discussion involving tribal "us against them" mentality. Bill was "one of them" and justifies the "rightness" of it.
No matter what, though, the nod, shrug, and compliance with providing identification is a good move. It gives them time to settle down from their testosterone-high and engage the brain.
http://www.realpolice.net/police_stress_codeofblue.htm
chut
Luceat Lux Vestra
In the Philippines, people who are being photographed on the street almost always have the opposite reaction to what I'm reading on this thread. Anytime a person sees that I am photographing them, they turn towards me, pose, and put on a big smile. This includes everyone from a young child to an a person in their seventies with no teeth.
In a way, I also 'Get Caught' in the sense that a scene or mood that I was trying to capture disappears and is replaced by a reflex to put on a smile. Most times, I try to be a bit stealthy and take a shot without people noticing. I usually end up with two or three shots, the last two of them giving a big smile. Of course, I much prefer the problem of smiling people to that of belligerent subjects.
I think this phenomenon of smiling for the camera has a lot to do with the history of photography and the Kodak company. The Filipino word for picture taking is literally 'Kodak', as in let's kodak or kodak me.
In most of the developing world and even in the developed nations of Asia, being photographed is a joyful and special event. Whereas in the developed world, it can seen by many as an invasion of privacy.
In a way, I also 'Get Caught' in the sense that a scene or mood that I was trying to capture disappears and is replaced by a reflex to put on a smile. Most times, I try to be a bit stealthy and take a shot without people noticing. I usually end up with two or three shots, the last two of them giving a big smile. Of course, I much prefer the problem of smiling people to that of belligerent subjects.
I think this phenomenon of smiling for the camera has a lot to do with the history of photography and the Kodak company. The Filipino word for picture taking is literally 'Kodak', as in let's kodak or kodak me.
In most of the developing world and even in the developed nations of Asia, being photographed is a joyful and special event. Whereas in the developed world, it can seen by many as an invasion of privacy.
robert blu
quiet photographer
@ Matus: for what concerns Italy, from a legal point of view, you can take picture of people in the public street (if they are not minor) but it is forbidden to publish those images anywhere without their permission. No internet, no magazines, no newspaper, even not exhibitions in a local fotoclub. In case you do it and the subject discover it you can get serious trouble.
rob
rob
ClaremontPhoto
Jon Claremont
My friends admire my 'Kodak' which has 'Leica' written on it.
Absolutely! A key element I think. I culture an "inoffensive old guy" appearance, avoid being sneaky, and act friendly.
In this shot taken recently at an evening farmers' market in Hilo Hawaii, the blonde "caught me" snapping, as you can see. She alerted her friend, and we all exchanged grins as I continued on. If folks ask why I'm shooting I often say I'm just a nutty artist, or trying to be. No, no, it won't be on the front page of the newspaper!
And, in honesty, I may say I'm on a project of snapping people at work, doing their jobs. In those cases I usually do get an OK before shooting, and ask them to just carry on as if I weren't there.
bmattock
Veteran
For a period of time, that was true in the USA, as well. To be Kodaked was to have one's picture taken, to engage in photography was to perform Kodakery, and so on. Kodak had a monthly magazine called "Kodakery," in fact, which later became the name of their internal employee newsletter.
ClaremontPhoto
Jon Claremont
'Kodak' in Portuguese is a noun meaning 'camera'.
As when people see my Leica and say 'that's a very nice Kodak you've got there Jon'.
As when people see my Leica and say 'that's a very nice Kodak you've got there Jon'.
oftheherd
Veteran
Korean used to dislike Americans taking photos of them as if they were strange in some way. Like as not it was a family business and the manager was a relative, even her husband. Worse, sometimes they can cop an attitude and when they get would up, there is no reasoning with them.
A couple or three years ago we were eating in a supermarket that had several restaurants. We were served bad (as in smelling and tasting bad) food. My wife called it to the attention of the owner and instead of checking it, or apologizing or offering to make it right, he began argueing. Now I had smelled the food before my wife showed it to him, it was bad.
Things deteriorated to the point I thought I was going to have to physically protect her. He was wound up but I guess he saw something in my look, and thankfully backed away. I didn't want to have it sink to that level, but wasn't going to let him touch my wife either.
Interesting thing was, when I called the county health service they weren't all that interested until I mentioned he had no tax authorization displayed. They were there the next morning. He has had a couple more unsuccessful businesses since then. You can only cut so many corners.
I have taken photos there since, being careful to return with prints for the staff. They have always been thankful. It was just him I guess.
I don't know what all that means, but most who own businesses won't react that way. They aren't shy letting you know they don't approve of something, but seldom go to that extreme like you mention.
ClaremontPhoto
Jon Claremont
I'm always careful around people who may not have the proper visas or other paperwork.
They often lead chaotic lives, and the last thing they need is me and a camera adding to their stress.
They often lead chaotic lives, and the last thing they need is me and a camera adding to their stress.
anselwannab
Well-known
Bang off a couple of other shots to make it look like they are not the only shot you taking. What's a couple of extra frames? "I took a picture of the fire hydrant too, and I don't see it complaining." A wink and appreciative nod always helps. I still get nervous.
noimmunity
scratch my niche
I think you, me and every other photographer has to ask him or herself: "what kind of relationships do I want?"
Photography is all about relationships, just in the very mechanism of producing an image.
I live in a place where I could take advantage of my social status as an outsider (although I speak Chinese since I was a teenage as a native, people normally assume I'm a monolingual dolt) to take photos of people without regard for any relation other than the distance necessary to focus the shot. I choose to forego this, because I want to have an inclusive, rather than exclusive, relation with people. I don't want to be "outside" or expatriate or protected by language or some other social construct.
Not speaking the language isn't necessarily a barrier. Some people are really good at overcoming it through other means, like body language or vibes. I think you should take the sometimes violent reaction of others as a clue to think about where your photography is coming from. Are you inside or outside what you photograph?
Photography is all about relationships, just in the very mechanism of producing an image.
I live in a place where I could take advantage of my social status as an outsider (although I speak Chinese since I was a teenage as a native, people normally assume I'm a monolingual dolt) to take photos of people without regard for any relation other than the distance necessary to focus the shot. I choose to forego this, because I want to have an inclusive, rather than exclusive, relation with people. I don't want to be "outside" or expatriate or protected by language or some other social construct.
Not speaking the language isn't necessarily a barrier. Some people are really good at overcoming it through other means, like body language or vibes. I think you should take the sometimes violent reaction of others as a clue to think about where your photography is coming from. Are you inside or outside what you photograph?
mh2000
Well-known
they do make 35mm and 50mm primes for SLRs and the actual size of a moderate sized SLR with one of these lenses is no more intimidating than a Leica M... sorry, had to get that off my chest.
My worst reaction in public shooting was with an Olympus XA (how threatening is that camera???)... at a huge public event... oh well, second worst time was with an Olympus RC (still smaller than any Leica)...
While I don't do much traditional "street photography" I've found that looking at someone at a distance and holding my camera up and smiling before shooting is the way to go... mostly they will smile back and then go on with what they are doing... if they give a dirty look, better to find a different subject.
Many people like having their photos taken... so long as you do come off like you are sneaking around or being generally creepy.
My worst reaction in public shooting was with an Olympus XA (how threatening is that camera???)... at a huge public event... oh well, second worst time was with an Olympus RC (still smaller than any Leica)...
While I don't do much traditional "street photography" I've found that looking at someone at a distance and holding my camera up and smiling before shooting is the way to go... mostly they will smile back and then go on with what they are doing... if they give a dirty look, better to find a different subject.
Many people like having their photos taken... so long as you do come off like you are sneaking around or being generally creepy.
TheHub
Well-known
To the people who say "It's legal and it's my right so shut up" ... they should then have no objection if someone sticks a camera in their children's face(s). Right?
Hopscotch
Wannabe
Theres a major question of ethics that runs through us as photographers. We all know how annoying it is to miss a shot because of grumpy people, but we also need to respect people's privacy. It is, no doubt, "creepy" to grab a shot of somebody without looking.
In Annie Leibovietz's book "At Work" She talks about Sontag talking with HCB. He says that Sontag sat across form Henri with his camera in his lap, and didn't realize until after she left that he was taking her portrait.
So HCB is a god to us. That's a given. He never much liked getting his photograph taken because it was strange to him. There's alot of reasons people say he didn't like his photo taken, but the fact is he didn't. Ironic?
Unless I'm sure it will produce an extremely provoctive image, I probably wouldn't take a picture of someone having a terrible day or someone that looks a bit off their rocker. That could end up pretty badly.
In Annie Leibovietz's book "At Work" She talks about Sontag talking with HCB. He says that Sontag sat across form Henri with his camera in his lap, and didn't realize until after she left that he was taking her portrait.
So HCB is a god to us. That's a given. He never much liked getting his photograph taken because it was strange to him. There's alot of reasons people say he didn't like his photo taken, but the fact is he didn't. Ironic?
Unless I'm sure it will produce an extremely provoctive image, I probably wouldn't take a picture of someone having a terrible day or someone that looks a bit off their rocker. That could end up pretty badly.
bmattock
Veteran
I haven't heard anyone say "It's legal and it's my right so shut up," but what I have heard them say is "It's legal and it's my right." A parent is, of course, free to object to their child being photographed, even if it is legal and the photographer's right to do so.
If I had a child in public, and someone "stuck a camera in" their face, I'd have a problem with that. But then, no one has asserted "sticking a camera" directly in anyone's faces. You're employing emotionally-packed weasel words that are used to generate maximum outrage, not words which are much more accurate like "If someone took a picture of your child."
I personally don't make it habit to "stick a camera" in anybody's face. Do you?
Gumby
Veteran
Right .