Plan I developing b&w film with old materials?

[scottyb70]

I bought some Kodafix Solution, Photo Flo and Tmax developer from a garage sale about 6 months ago. I kept the solutions in my closet and I don't know how old they are. The kodafix has a slight yellow milky appearance with a little bit of sediment at the bottom of the bottle. The photo flo and tmax are pretty clear in color. Should I try to use these liquids? The temperature in my house is about 60-64 degrees, but I have a utility room that I can close off and warm up the room with a heater. Would this be the best way to do this or can I warm up the chemicals near my furnace?

I also have a changing bag and I am using a plastic omega developing tank. The instructions for the developing tank states I can use the shaking axle which makes two simultaneous movement rotatory and vertical to spin the reels as opposed to tipping the tank. Is this a good idea? I was going to use distilled water instead of tap water for mixing and rinsing, is this a good idea?

I will use either Ilford 3200 or FP4 Plus 125 Film.

 

[Larry Mclendon]

There are specific developing times and temperatures for various films. And the stuff is probably too old to be much good, anyway.

 

[russianRF]

Seriously, film costs too much to risk it on old chemistry. Chemistry is one of those things I just don't buy used or secondhand, for just this reason. Freestylephoto.biz, adorama.com, bhphotovideo.com, and a few other places will have good prices on chemistry if your local stores are price-gougers. I'm sure ppl here can recommend other places... 🙂

BTW, in the future, you can put "massive film dev chart" into google and it will come up with a link to a database-driven webpage that lists dozens of films and their developing times/temps against dozens of developers. I believe freestyle also has a film dev chart...

 

[venchka]

Fresh chemistry. Aways fresh chemistry. I use old film and fresh chemicals. Works everytime! I would never trust the opposite.

ps: Not sure I would trust new Tmax developer either. But that's just me.

 

[David William White]

Developer is likely okay if it's mostly full and capped properly. Fixer sounds bad, but you can do a test with a fresh bit of film and see if the emulsion disolves and leaves the clear film base. If it doesn't clear the film after 5 minutes, toss it.

Developer temperature is critical, but as suggested, times exist for 68, 70, 72, etc. Easy to get the developer to the right temperature with a bit of warm water. Get a thermometer though.

Method of agitation is not that important, but consistency is.

The place to use distilled water is in your developer -- but only if your water pH is totally out of wack, otherwise, unneccessary. Photoflo should take care of hard water in the rinse, so no worry there.

 

[ZorkiKat]

That old Kodafix may still be good. Filter the sediment, dilute the filtered liquid with 3 parts water. It should work. The stuff you see is liberated sulfur. But there may still be good stuff left in the liquid. Try its worth first- drop a strip of unexposed and undeveloped film (FP4 is good, use the leader which is normally cut for processing). This strip should clear in about a minute or two in good Kodafix. If it does, your fixing time should be about 3 minutes.

Photoflo doesn't die with age too. If its still clear, it should still be good. The concentrate really lasts and lasts. I have a 19 year old, half-full bottle of the concentrate. Still OK, but I don't use it anymore. Photoflo can do some bad to nylon Paterson type tanks.

 

[Larry Mclendon]

Isn't photoflo just basically dilute soap? A surfactant? I've never heard of it harming tanks.

 

[sevo]

Sealed powder bags and bottles of b&w developer usually last for ages, there are reports of people succesfully using 50+ years old Rodinal and D-76.

But fix, bleach and colour developer in pre mixed powder bags or bottles do not - they are positively dead whenever there is a sediment or it does not dissolve completely any more, and YMMV once it exceeds the printed-on maximum shelf time, even if it shows no signs of decomposition.

 

[ZorkiKat]

Isn't photoflo just basically dilute soap? A surfactant? I've never heard of it harming tanks.

Not soap, but closer to detergent. Its not the tank, but the reels which get harmed. I don't know how this happens, but it has and others have reported the same too. When I used to use photoflo, my nylon Paterson reels got stained and dirty- no matter how much washing they got after use.
The staining happened after about 5 uses.

Now, I've quit using photoflo and use dishwashing liquid (very, very dilute) instead. Reels still clean and unblemished after almost two years of regular use. Haven't had problems with dishwashing liquid either when used as wetting agent. My negs from 2000 still look good.

 

[KenD]

Now, I've quit using photoflo and use dishwashing liquid (very, very dilute) instead. Reels still clean and unblemished after almost two years of regular use. Haven't had problems with dishwashing liquid either when used as wetting agent. My negs from 2000 still look good.

@ZorkiKat: Any specific brands of dish liquid that have worked well?

 

[Joao]

Now, I've quit using photoflo and use dishwashing liquid (very, very dilute) instead.

Jay, can you please be more specific ? Can you use those concentrate dishwasher deterrgents ("Fairy" or similar ones) ? If yes, how much of it ( how many drops or how many mL) for 500 cc of water ? Thanks.
Happy New Year
Joao

 

[ZorkiKat]

The concept of using dishwashing liquid isn't a new one. I've found it in an old photography book (from the 1950s) which recommended using various brands of shampoos, detergents, etc, many of which probably no longer exists.

I use "Joy" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joy_dishwashing_liquid dishwashing liquid. Other equivalents should work, but select the 'plain jane' version. The one we have locally has a version with no skin moisturiser. Non-ultra type is also preferred. Plain lemon scented.

The dilution should be very high. That would likely be 1/8 tsp to 1000ml water. The diluted solution should not produce a rich frothy bubble layer. Large bubbles, few, and pops easily.

Some people may frown on using dishwashing liquid as a wetting agent. Both Joy and Photoflo are surfactants. Works with me, but YMMV.

 

[Ronald_H]

Dishwashing liquid does it for me. I don't care much about the brand, just buy the cheapest stuff you can find. I add the teensiest of small drops to my final rinse.

It really works. Without it I get ugly drying stains, with it, none at all.

Oh, and plain white vinegar 1+4 works nicely as stop bath as well...

 

[russianRF]

Considering Photoflo is like, 1 part to 200 parts water, is it really that much cheaper to use generic dishwashing liquid instead? I guess if you want your negatives smelling lemony fresh... I don't know what the archival qualities of lemony fresh are. 🙂

 

[ZorkiKat]

Considering Photoflo is like, 1 part to 200 parts water, is it really that much cheaper to use generic dishwashing liquid instead? I guess if you want your negatives smelling lemony fresh... I don't know what the archival qualities of lemony fresh are. 🙂

You might consider the factors for using DW liquid hinted in some of the earlier posts - the cost of 'cheap' Photoflo isn't even among them:

1. Availability- in places where film and darkroom chemistry are hard to (or impossible to) find, chances are there'd still be lemony dishwashing liquid around.

2. Reel staining- as stated previously, I never had any of the staining problem associated with Photoflo I used before.

3. Archival qualities- I've been using dishwashing liquid since 2000. 8 years after the negatives still look great. Oh wait, I have some negatives from around 1986 when I didn't know where to get Photoflo then- and I used dishwashing detergent instead (following a suggestion from Sussman's Photographer's Handbook). The negs are still OK.