gdi
Veteran
I have been paying around with the G1 kit lens in manual focus mode and I am a bit disappointed.
It really is a slow process - when you turn the focus ring the VF zooms and you can focus or zoom in more to focus. but once you have obtained focus, you have to exit the zoom to frame by pressing the shutter button. All this zooming and unzooming is pretty slow. You can skip the zooming and focus like using a matte screen but your accuracy really suffers.
Also, in very dim light I have found that the viewfinder does not brighten enough to focus quickly on low contrast subjects - I am talking very low light, but situations where I could focus my Ms fairly easily. I need to play with this a bit more, I think the Shutter Effect setting may have something to do with this if it is turned on.
All in all it is a fun camera, but i think manually focusing moving subjects while maintaining framing may be quite a challenge. If anyone has any tips for doing this please let me know.
It really is a slow process - when you turn the focus ring the VF zooms and you can focus or zoom in more to focus. but once you have obtained focus, you have to exit the zoom to frame by pressing the shutter button. All this zooming and unzooming is pretty slow. You can skip the zooming and focus like using a matte screen but your accuracy really suffers.
Also, in very dim light I have found that the viewfinder does not brighten enough to focus quickly on low contrast subjects - I am talking very low light, but situations where I could focus my Ms fairly easily. I need to play with this a bit more, I think the Shutter Effect setting may have something to do with this if it is turned on.
All in all it is a fun camera, but i think manually focusing moving subjects while maintaining framing may be quite a challenge. If anyone has any tips for doing this please let me know.
How is the speed for exposure. I assume you put the camera on AV, as long as you are opened to f4ish or wider and intend to shoot there no need to stop down as the finder should be bright enough, so it is a matter of focusing (taking what you said above in mind) and shooting.
I don't find the unzooming slow, it's pretty much automatic.
What I do find slow is the two button press to activate the focus assist. I understand why it is two buttons, but I would prefer it to be one button. And sometimes I hit the wrong one.
However the more I use the camera, the faster I get. And if I'm shooting subjects that are moving around too quickly for manual focus, I use the kit lens and AF.
One thing that is faster in manual focus mode, is the shutter lag.
With regards to very dim light, if it is so dim that manual focus is difficult on the G1, it's going to be equally difficult or impossible using anything else...at least in my experience. Bear in mind, I have a difficult time focusing an M in low light. I haven't used shutter effect. (Haven't read the manual actually, heh.)
What I do find slow is the two button press to activate the focus assist. I understand why it is two buttons, but I would prefer it to be one button. And sometimes I hit the wrong one.
However the more I use the camera, the faster I get. And if I'm shooting subjects that are moving around too quickly for manual focus, I use the kit lens and AF.
One thing that is faster in manual focus mode, is the shutter lag.
With regards to very dim light, if it is so dim that manual focus is difficult on the G1, it's going to be equally difficult or impossible using anything else...at least in my experience. Bear in mind, I have a difficult time focusing an M in low light. I haven't used shutter effect. (Haven't read the manual actually, heh.)
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Tuolumne
Veteran
Gdi,
Those are my impressions focusing the kit lens in manual mode, too. However, I don't have much better luck focusing a Leica on a really moving subject (where the subject changes position, not just a head moving around) either. So I don't know yet how much of an issue this will be. I did find for the first time that dark subjects that were back lit are very hard to manually focus. If there is some highlight to focus on, it becomes a snap.
/T
Those are my impressions focusing the kit lens in manual mode, too. However, I don't have much better luck focusing a Leica on a really moving subject (where the subject changes position, not just a head moving around) either. So I don't know yet how much of an issue this will be. I did find for the first time that dark subjects that were back lit are very hard to manually focus. If there is some highlight to focus on, it becomes a snap.
/T
gdi
Veteran
Thanks for the input, all.
I think I will have to keep practicing with the manual focusing - but I don't think it will match my M results in really low light.
Also, I noticed that the zoomed view in manual assist can be significantly darker than the full view - anyone else notice this?
All in all though this camera is a cool piece of technology - and a weird mix of beginner and serious user features. I have to admit, there is so much in it that I actually did have to go through the manual to figure out a lot of things, so I am definately still a newbie.
I think I will have to keep practicing with the manual focusing - but I don't think it will match my M results in really low light.
Also, I noticed that the zoomed view in manual assist can be significantly darker than the full view - anyone else notice this?
All in all though this camera is a cool piece of technology - and a weird mix of beginner and serious user features. I have to admit, there is so much in it that I actually did have to go through the manual to figure out a lot of things, so I am definately still a newbie.
back alley
IMAGES
All in all though this camera is a cool piece of technology - and a weird mix of beginner and serious user features...
remember that panasonic is marketing this camera as a bridge camera, going from a simple point and shoot to the g1 instead of a 'full' dslr.
remember that panasonic is marketing this camera as a bridge camera, going from a simple point and shoot to the g1 instead of a 'full' dslr.
Avotius
Some guy
I guess my experience manual focusing the camera is different. I started taking pictures on a Canon AE1 with not the cleanest finder ever and found the G1 simple and just as fast as on the AE1 minus the split image prism which I used a lot. All in all not so bad, but im sure no one even planned this camera to be able to trump an M Leica when they made it.
BillBingham2
Registered User
What speed lenses are you using?
B2 (;->
B2 (;->
gdi
Veteran
The kit lens Bill - 3.5-5.6.
And yes, focusing is as good as any matte screen SLR. I think the big thing to get used to is the EVF changing during MF Assist. I am anxious for Cameraquest's adapter to try M lenses, I still think it will be an interesting experience.
And yes, focusing is as good as any matte screen SLR. I think the big thing to get used to is the EVF changing during MF Assist. I am anxious for Cameraquest's adapter to try M lenses, I still think it will be an interesting experience.
dng88
Dennis
Based on the experience of having both the kit lens as well as the Novoflex adapter, may I jump in
- I think the kit lens and manual focus is very easy to use. I am not sure what the problem the first post is about. You do not need to use two button. You just touch the focus ring, it will switch. That seems very ease.
- Based on my experience with M3/R4A/R3A/T/... low light the EVF is very hard to compete with Rangefinder viewer. Yes I know it brighten up but somehow the flicking of evening night plus the bad time lag of EVF makes it hard to use in low light. Further, if the light is a bit too low for eye to see, the EVF brighten up is good but then G1 ISO performance simply not good for such environment - at least not with the lens I have. May be it is ok with 1.0-1.4 lens.
- I do not have RD1 but I have used ISO800 of that camera in a camera shop for over half-a-hour and still with the files with me. May be someone else has better skill, but G1 ISO800 is no match to RD1. The RD1 file is just ok even for Jpeg. I looked at those RD1 photos from time-to-time, just to tease myself and explain why my name is still queueing for a new RD1 from Epson in a local shop (It is true and in fact I have just called them as they are still waiting for the camera to turn up!). The picture at 800 is simply ok for RD1 but not that good for G1.
- I have issue to get fast moving kids even with kit lens. There is a shutter lag plus somehow the screen stop a bit. If I have to take picture of kids, I would take out my D300 and 50F1.8/70-200. Sorry, not M3 or G1.
- I do not have expensive Leica Lens and just got 2 old lens from a fellow RFFer a few days ago. With G1 and Novoflex, so far one Leica len (35F3.5) flare too much. I am still testing my lens (and you can see some posted pictures in the gallery here as well as in flickr). V lens are ok. 15mm and 21mm is good in daylight (even though only got F4.5/F4). The 70F2.5 is very good. The 50F3.5 comes with my T is really sharp (but I have to tape it to avoid damage anything -- not that I dare to test it). I just taped the other Leica (50F3.5 collapable, the original very old one). Test it as next len. (Canon 50F1.8 is also ok).
Overall, I think the three "rangefinder lens capable" camera RD1, R8 (I guess, by just watch others posting) and this G1 is all unique. Perhaps using M/LTM lens (and for G1 many other lens via adapter) is different by its lens. Look forward for Oly. small one as G1 is still not able to put in my pocket (even with Leica 35F3.5).
- I think the kit lens and manual focus is very easy to use. I am not sure what the problem the first post is about. You do not need to use two button. You just touch the focus ring, it will switch. That seems very ease.
- Based on my experience with M3/R4A/R3A/T/... low light the EVF is very hard to compete with Rangefinder viewer. Yes I know it brighten up but somehow the flicking of evening night plus the bad time lag of EVF makes it hard to use in low light. Further, if the light is a bit too low for eye to see, the EVF brighten up is good but then G1 ISO performance simply not good for such environment - at least not with the lens I have. May be it is ok with 1.0-1.4 lens.
- I do not have RD1 but I have used ISO800 of that camera in a camera shop for over half-a-hour and still with the files with me. May be someone else has better skill, but G1 ISO800 is no match to RD1. The RD1 file is just ok even for Jpeg. I looked at those RD1 photos from time-to-time, just to tease myself and explain why my name is still queueing for a new RD1 from Epson in a local shop (It is true and in fact I have just called them as they are still waiting for the camera to turn up!). The picture at 800 is simply ok for RD1 but not that good for G1.
- I have issue to get fast moving kids even with kit lens. There is a shutter lag plus somehow the screen stop a bit. If I have to take picture of kids, I would take out my D300 and 50F1.8/70-200. Sorry, not M3 or G1.
- I do not have expensive Leica Lens and just got 2 old lens from a fellow RFFer a few days ago. With G1 and Novoflex, so far one Leica len (35F3.5) flare too much. I am still testing my lens (and you can see some posted pictures in the gallery here as well as in flickr). V lens are ok. 15mm and 21mm is good in daylight (even though only got F4.5/F4). The 70F2.5 is very good. The 50F3.5 comes with my T is really sharp (but I have to tape it to avoid damage anything -- not that I dare to test it). I just taped the other Leica (50F3.5 collapable, the original very old one). Test it as next len. (Canon 50F1.8 is also ok).
Overall, I think the three "rangefinder lens capable" camera RD1, R8 (I guess, by just watch others posting) and this G1 is all unique. Perhaps using M/LTM lens (and for G1 many other lens via adapter) is different by its lens. Look forward for Oly. small one as G1 is still not able to put in my pocket (even with Leica 35F3.5).
gdi
Veteran
My point was mostly that manual focus was a bit disconcerting to use - the zooming loses your framing, then you have to half press to go to full view then frame and shoot. I know that is the only way zoom could work, but it is a pretty slow process. I will try to focus without zooming when I can, of course.
I am still interested if others are finding that MF assist in low light is very dark! If I turn it off I get a nice bright full frame view as the EVF boosts gain so I can see. However, when I use assist, there is no gain and the EVF is extremely dark - and focusing basically impossible.
Do I have some setting wrong?
Cindy Flood
Established
I am not having problems focusing my M lenses or the kit lens. I frame and then focus with the focus ring. If I feel that the subject requires finer focus, I press the left arrow. (I have disabled auto zoom). I then get a yellow square which I move to the focus point and press the center button. The G1 zooms in. Further zoom is possible with the front wheel. I do the fine focus and half-press the shutter to bring back the non-zoomed image. There is no need to re-frame. Press the shutter for the shot.
Another G1 user pointed out the waist level focus method. I use this when I want to be more stealth.
I put the G1 in my left hand with my fingers on the focus ring. My arms are braced to my waist for support. My right hand is steadying the G1. I have the LCD swiveled so that I can focus from the screen. I frame and press the left arrow button with my right thumb to bring up the yellow square. I put it on the focus point..continue as above.
No one notices that you are even photographing.
Another G1 user pointed out the waist level focus method. I use this when I want to be more stealth.
I put the G1 in my left hand with my fingers on the focus ring. My arms are braced to my waist for support. My right hand is steadying the G1. I have the LCD swiveled so that I can focus from the screen. I frame and press the left arrow button with my right thumb to bring up the yellow square. I put it on the focus point..continue as above.No one notices that you are even photographing.
dng88
Dennis
I thought it already gave you assist. Perhaps, have you tried to open up the aperture? The area you looked into in the dark is a small section of a dark area. You may have to do open up-close down lens aperture. Take this, if you shot it at 3200 and that patch is still dark, that is the maximum you can get.
For the focus with M lens, as sean pointed out in his review, I guess you have to take it that it is ground glass view of looking not optical view finder looking.
In fact, even if you use external viewer, the shutter lag is too much for it to pretend to be a rangefinder. I test G1 vs D-Lux3 and D-Lux3 seems ok (by sticking somehow a viewer along the line of the lens) on shutter lag but not G1, even fully manual.
Also, the exposure is a bit odd. Try to do that and look at the histogram before the shoot, the actual photo after shoot (need to press play-view as the default replay does not have histogram). It does not match and hence even more slow down the flow.
I guess it is better than 8x10 ground glass in terms of speed!
dng88
Dennis
It is night time here and I went to the street and test G1. I think I can confirm that the manual assist will brighten up the scenery.
- to test it you can point a bright place and manual assist focus and move to a dark place next to it, you can see the dark place brighten up
- you can turn to small aperutue and if it is dark it goes dark but if you open up a bit (say from f16 to f4/f3.5), you can see even if your other eye see that it is dark
In fact, the problem is that what you see is so different from what you get at the aperture (e.g at f3.5 you can see in evf but the picture is very underexposed), it is very bad experience.
Take the limitation, it is a unique experience but it has very serious limitation due to high ISO noise and EVF.
Good day.
- to test it you can point a bright place and manual assist focus and move to a dark place next to it, you can see the dark place brighten up
- you can turn to small aperutue and if it is dark it goes dark but if you open up a bit (say from f16 to f4/f3.5), you can see even if your other eye see that it is dark
In fact, the problem is that what you see is so different from what you get at the aperture (e.g at f3.5 you can see in evf but the picture is very underexposed), it is very bad experience.
Take the limitation, it is a unique experience but it has very serious limitation due to high ISO noise and EVF.
Good day.
gdi
Veteran
That is not my experience - if I view (with the kit lens) a scene, it can be fairly bright as the EVF compensates. Unfortunately, when I zoom, on an area that I can see very easily it darkens considerably. :bang: Of course with the Kit lens, I don't need to adjust for the aperture as it will automatically stop down (plus I am always forced to shoot wide open at such low light levels.)
dng88
Dennis
I double check now for the findings and may be we are both right!
I think what happens is that you goes to f5.6 when you zoom out. Hence, it is as I said it is selection of a dark area when you use manual assist. Dark with F5.6 and is dark. When I use my Leica 50F3.5 (Elmar) and stop down to F5.6, the darkness is the same as the one for the zoom lens when manual assist using the same area. But in the Elmar case I can open up to F3.5. The EVF brighten enough to see this quite dark area. Yes, the EVF did bring it up (compared with naked eye) but not enough when you only get F5.6.
Anyway, I got this for the M/LTM lens more than the kit lens and the manual focusing is a necessity there while the kit lens you have OIS and AF option ... For manual focusing and because of F5.6, your said limitation holds. May be if one is in MFT system, have to shell out $ to get expensive later (bait-and-switch ...). To be fair, kit lens for low light is not really good to go even for dSLR ...
I think what happens is that you goes to f5.6 when you zoom out. Hence, it is as I said it is selection of a dark area when you use manual assist. Dark with F5.6 and is dark. When I use my Leica 50F3.5 (Elmar) and stop down to F5.6, the darkness is the same as the one for the zoom lens when manual assist using the same area. But in the Elmar case I can open up to F3.5. The EVF brighten enough to see this quite dark area. Yes, the EVF did bring it up (compared with naked eye) but not enough when you only get F5.6.
Anyway, I got this for the M/LTM lens more than the kit lens and the manual focusing is a necessity there while the kit lens you have OIS and AF option ... For manual focusing and because of F5.6, your said limitation holds. May be if one is in MFT system, have to shell out $ to get expensive later (bait-and-switch ...). To be fair, kit lens for low light is not really good to go even for dSLR ...
RayPA
Ignore It (It'll go away)
just curious whether you've done the firmware update (v1.1). Supposedly, it fixes some MF assist issues(?):
"Panasonic has posted the first firmware update for its DMC-G1 Micro Four-Thirds camera. The update is said to improve the AE Lock and MF Assist features, along with the overall performance. It also lets the user make color adjustments to the camera's LCD and EVF."
.
dng88
Dennis
I think the issue the firmware fixes is to let manual assist stays not just 10s but forever.
gdi
Veteran
You aren't understanding my point...
Example:
To give you an idea of the level of light I an talking about...
- I am in my study now and the wall behind me measures 7ev on my Calculight meter. That translates to about 1/15s for an 0.95 aperture.
Now here is what I do with the G1...
- I use the kit lens and set the focal length to 45mm, the EVF is bright but with lots of noise.
- I can focus, but it is not that easy.
- Now if I turn ON Manual Focus Assist the EVF all but blacks out - I can barely see the shadowy outline of detail I can see pretty well with MF Assist OFF
- practically impossible to focus.
- No, I do not "Zoom" the lens at all - I only turn on Focus Assist!
Now if I try with an M8...
- Look at the detail on the wall and focus instantly.
The M8 is simply far easier to focus in this low level of light than the G1 - with or without Focus Assist. My conclusion is that FA is not practical in very low light levels. You are better off trying to focus without it. Somehow the implementation of FA reduces the effective EVF gain or light level. (I am not going to get into the EVF lag! )
Don't get me wrong, I am enjoying the camera. But I don't see any advantage in manual focusing compared with an M - for most Leica lenses.
Low light ? Stick with the Ms...