Help me with this Zeiss Ikon

[chippy]

I've taken the Albada finders apart on three Super Ikonta Cs. Not hard to do, just use care not to chip the glass on the front element when you remove it from the carrier.
On the 531/2 Ikontas, the front element consists of two pieces of glass cemented together with Canada Balsam. One of the inside surfaces has a semi silvered side which can deteriorate. As well, the Canada Balsam will darken.

The problem can be compounded by the yellowing of the little piece of plastic (probably, nitro cellulose) which has the frame lines. If this is removed the image is only improved slightly, and then of course you've lost the frame lines.

The general consensus, I've seen so far, suggests that there may be no solution to the crappy Albada finders on Super Ikontas. Well, actually.....there is one: replace the finder with the finder from a Moskva II, or first version Moskva IV. They fit, oddly enough, but don't really look right.

thats an acurate discription literiter, better than mine haha, i forgot to mention the front peice is two pieces stuck together also, ...thanks for mentioning..i tend to agree the moskva viewfinders dont look right either

 

[FallisPhoto]

i am not sure how that stuff is normally adheared to the surface? and the other problem i see is the curvature of the front part of the viewfinders rear surface is pretty steep so i can quite see it laying down flat/smooth without cutting out sections so it didnt have folds...if these were overcome (obviously by intricate cutting to shape) then it may make a suitable working fix, not perfect, or a grand restoration, but it may work.....if i had some albada finders that were in poor shape i would definitely investigate it as a possible solution...of course resilvering the lens is ideal but i dont know of a place atm that can (or would) resilver with partial reflective coating

It is a very thin mylar plastic, and it sticks when you apply heat. It will mold to pretty much any shape, since it gets soft and malleable with the heat. With curved surfaces, you do have to be careful about stretching out the wrinkles though. Since it seems to go between two lenses, this would probably be easy, since when pressing it betwween the two lenses, they would act as molds. The one big problem I am seeing is if, as Lieterer is saying, the mirrored part is between two cemented pieces; then the added thickness of the mylar might have an adverse effect on the optical characteristics of the lens.

Edit: I guess the thing to do is try it, and if it doesn't work, then there is always the Moskva viewfinder solution.

 

[chippy]

yeah i would try it, if it is cactus already, why not

it 'should' be simple enough to seperate the two elements in hot water heated to just below boiling...the balsum melts and they would come apart...i dont know why i havnt heard of anyone doing this,,sounds like the sort of thing that people would have a go at doing

 

[literiter]

Here is a thought...just a thought.

Those two front elements should come apart with heat. Just enough heat to melt the balsam, they should slide apart. What would happen if the Balsam were just heated and the lenses pressed carefully together, perhaps resetting the balsam? Lots of heat, perhaps a oven or heat lamp and heat slowly so the glass doesn't shatter.

If they were to come apart anyway, they have to come apart with heat. Shouldn't hurt to try. (I guess you could try soaking the lens in acetone for a week or so as well)

Try the heat first maybe.

 

[FallisPhoto]

i dont know why i havnt heard of anyone doing this,,sounds like the sort of thing that people would have a go at doing

I don't know either. It sounds like something that would be easy enough to try. Logically, it should work, unless there is something I have overlooked. I'd give it a shot, if I had a spare viewfinder to try it on.

P.S.: What the heck are you doing up at 5:00 am anyway, Andrew?

 

[chippy]

I don't know either. It sounds like something that would be easy enough to try. Logically, it should work, unless there is something I have overlooked. I'd give it a shot, if I had a spare viewfinder to try it on.

P.S.: What the heck are you doing up at 5:00 am anyway, Andrew?

makes me wish i had one (not a good one) on hand to pull apart right now, would be cool to solve this onging delema of the S/Ikonta's.

5:00am ! ,nah , its daylight saving time here atm so maybe your calculations are out. i was up early and doing some bookwork on the poota, but i dont think i posted those until after 7 or after 8am or round abouts (unless i read my clocks wrong again, it happens lol) , then i was out the door for work, now i am back 😀

 

[FallisPhoto]

i would also disagree with the need to stop down to f8 as well..honestly i am starting to think it is one of those urban internet myths that 6x9s have film flatness problems (unless there is something wrong with the camera)...i have this model ikonta (and dozens of other 6x9s) as well and have had no film flatness problems...wind on just prior to shooting is the obvious precaution to take so the film is taught and flat

Missed this part. I've never had a problem wtih film flatness in a Zeiss camera that was working properly. There has been some blurring in the corners occasionally, at wide apertures, but I think that is an inherent problem with Tessars, not anything to do with film flatness.

 

[literiter]

There is an issue I'm afraid with front cell focusing lenses, of which the Tessar is one. That is sharpness gets a tad loose at the edges at wide apertures.

I good daylight I will shoot at f16 with no apparent focus softness provided I open the camera before I advance the film, (this I find hard to remember) and use a tripod and shutter release.

 

[ZeissFan]

It's hard to say without inspecting the bellows whether they would need to be replaced.

In the past, what I've done is to clean the bellows with saddle soap and after applying some shoe polish, I then collapse the bellows correctly, working from both sides of the bellows.

In most cases, I've been able to "retrain" the bellows so that they fold correctly. Once you get the bellows into the correct folding position, I leave the camera closed for a few days.

Then I open and close the camera several times to ensure that they recollapse correctly.

It doesn't always work, but it's worth a try. And it's much easier than replacing the bellows.

Of course, if the bellows are in poor condition, the first thing to do is to check that there are no pinholes.

 

[Windscale]

The best place in the UK to get your camera done would be Newton Ellis in Liverpool. If they can't do it, not many people can.

http://www.newtonellis.co.uk/

 

[FallisPhoto]

... And it's much easier than replacing the bellows...

Nearly anything is. Zeisses were not built to make it at all easy. At very least, you have to drill out the rivets, and in come cases you have to figure out how to extract the tripod socket without wrecking the thing too. If that is a bellows seperation, I'd resign myself to doing it though -- it isn't going to get better.

 

[urban_alchemist]

Thank you for all your advice and information thus far.

The camera appears to have a Zeiss Tessar 105mm/f3.5 lense attached... any info on this lense again, greatly appreciated....

Again: any info about the camera/lense/repair/anything else, greatly appreciated!

All the best,
Julian

 

[urban_alchemist]

 

[urban_alchemist]

 

[urban_alchemist]

 

[urban_alchemist]

 

[urban_alchemist]

 

[urban_alchemist]

 

[sevo]

That is a post-war model (Opton was the brand used by Zeiss West in the post-war years). Which makes it coated and a bit more desirable - but also a bit more vulnerable to fungus and cleaning damage.

It is still hard to tell whether the bellows have suffered more than optical damage - the second and third pleat look as if the corners might have torn, but that picture might be misleading. If the corners are still light-tight and the inner and outer cover have not separated, it might be possible to put the pleats back into shape with some steam and pressure - that would mean less disassembly of the camera than for a bellows replacement, but the lens, shutter and finder still need to be removed, making it a experts job.

Sevo

 

[chippy]

Thank you for all your advice and information thus far.

The camera appears to have a Zeiss Tessar 105mm/f3.5 lense attached... any info on this lense again, greatly appreciated....

Again: any info about the camera/lense/repair/anything else, greatly appreciated!

All the best,
Julian

Julian, these Tessar are as good as it gets on a Zeiss Ikon of this period camera, top of their range 4 element in 3 groups. As Sevo mentions its a post war west german Opton Tessar and it is T coated which is more desirable in these camera than the uncoated...it also has flash sync which makes it slightly more sort after again. i cant read the serial number but it is most likely 1952 ish considering when they started puting the sync on these as standard.

another pice of trivia is if you notice the knurled shape on the front lens cell..those arnt just so you can more easily grip the lens or look fancy (not that there is any need to on this as you rotate the lens using the smaller wheel), but it is threaded/shaped in such a way that it also takes screw on filters or lens shade..as well as it also takes standard push on 37mm filters or lens hood. the screw on feature alows you to use filters and lens shade easily at the same time and they can be screww on to each other in tandum.

economically speaking, if the bellows do need replacing or you just want to make it better then it is still viable with what these camera get at auction, but quite possibly it is worth it just from the aspect of what its family history means to you.

snap shot pictures like this can be expected, taken with the same camera model/lens/shutter

old dead gum tree in the middle of Stathalbum town in Sth Oz. it special for some reason..i forget what that reason is!! ignore all the black and white spots on the neg

the ol horse drawn tram that runs across the old bridge to Granite Island from Victor harbour, Sth Oz

these cameras are meant to slower to operate, and this is just a snap shot, but i took it quicker than that goose on top of the tram fiddling with the point and shoot digi cam hahaha!