Faster 25mm Lens by Voightlander?

jbf

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I doubt i'll get any real response on this...


but does anyone know if Voigtlander may be planning no releasing a faster 25mm or 21mm lens at all?

They have slow and compact 21 & 25s... but what i'd love is a faster lens from them at a reasonable price compared to the zeiss alternative.
 
Interesting dream. Keep in mind I think CV makes many of the ZI wides. I would be that the 18mm is because CV built one a few years before and was told there was not enough interest by the press. Before DRF (Digital Range Finders) I would not a disagreed, again 20/20 hindsight.

I was hesitant on the 25 till I got one. I thought f4 was too slow but found with a little thinking I was able to work things out fine.

B2 (;->
 
It appears to me like the Zeiss lenses are the faster, nicer finished, and more expensive line while Voigtlander markets the economy line. The total market is limited and I don't see Voigtlander and Zeiss going head to head that way. Both lines have excellent optics.

I've gotten so used to working within the confines of f/4.5 with my 15mm Voigtlander Heliar that my 21mm f/3.4 Super Angulon seems fast in comparison. I picked that up second hand at a great price but I can't see myself putting money into the 15mm Zeiss no matter how fast or pretty.
 
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VC and Zeiss are made on the same Cosina production line so I would not anticipate them going head-to-head.

I agree to Paul,,, And even if (I don't think this would happen, though) they make VC line of faster 25mm, that would probably cost similar to ZM line lenses...

Hiromu
 
I don't understand the CV vs Zeiss thing at all. Let's see:

50)

ZM: 50/1.5, 50/2
CV: 50/3.5, 50/2.5, 50/2, 50/1.5

35)

ZM: 35/2, 35/2.8
CV: 35/2.5, 35/1.7, 35/1.4, 35/1.2

28)

ZM: 28/2.8
CV: 28/3.5, 28/2, 28/1.9

True, the specs are not overlapping (excluding the very special Sonnar). But clearly, CV has made several faster lenses on the same production line as the ZM lenses. Some more expensive than ZM lenses (comparing the 35/1.2 to the Biogon). I personally think that CV lenses are not targeted to the cheaper market, but simply are priced less, since that's what consumers (do not) pay for the brand name. Production prices are likely similar.

I assume it depends a bit on what focal lengths TomA likes to use. So maybe we should expect a fast 21, next ? 🙂

Of course it will focus shift like crazy and have lousy bokeh ...

Somebody watch Tom's bag please 🙂

Roland.
 
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Roland, I wish I had that kind of pull with CV/Zeiss. I would like to see a fast 21 (no surprise), but at $6000 Leica's offering is a bit steep. Both Zeiss and VC are of course looking at the possibility of one, most likely a f2, but it is all dependent on what the market will accept. Once you get down below f2.8 with fast lenses, design gets even more complex and you have to figure out how to correct for vignetting, coma etc which gets more pronounced as you go wider.
As for pricing versus quality. The VC and Zeiss lenses are made in Japan (apart from the 15f2.8 and the 85f2) and the quality is the same from a manufacturing point. Where there are differences is in the designs. VC starts very much with a blank sheet and designs what they can make, glass composition, coating, aspherical or not, size and price. They are really not bound by a "past", except when they do speciality lenses like the Heliar 50f2 and f3.5. Just look at the 50f1.5 Nokton, first 50mm for 35mm film cameras with two aspherical surfaces on the same element, the 35f1.2 with 3 aspherical surfaces, the 12f5.6 or the 15f4.5. These were and still are cutting edge designs! Zeiss follows a more traditional approach and looks at their old designs and modify them for modern glass and modern coatings. The cost factor probably has more to do with the fact that CV sells their lenses to the importer, whilst Zeiss buys theirs from CV and adds a bit of margin on to that, before it goes to the importer.
Of course they discuss what will be made under one brand or the other. It would be stupid not to. It is a small market segment and "internal" fighting over f-stops and focal length would be detrimental. With Leica concentrating on what they do best, cutting edge optics with no holds barred when it comes to pricing - the medium priced market is left to CV/Zeiss to fill. There is also a strong competition from the used market and pricing has to take that into consideration.
As for fast 21's - I have suggested one, but it remains to be seen what will come.
 
I was impressed when leica released the 21mm and 24mm f1.4s. Can't afford one though. I lie... I can but I would probably appear in the divorce courts soon after. However, it does show you the size that the lens need to be to get decent quality. Could Zeiss fill the gaps in the market with high quality (plus cheaper 21mm+25mm F2s. How about a 28mm f1.4 (would be smaller and easier to make than the 24mm/25mm😀.

The only issue with the 25mm f2, quality not as good as the f2.8+f4.5 plus not the bragging rights of the leica f1.4. But if the price and quality is right😉
 
I think CV could make a 25/2 or 21/2 using aspherical elements to keep the size reasonable. They would be quite an attractive alternative to those $6k 'luxes.

And throw in 50/1.2 to match Leica's superspeed trio! 😀
 
If they produced the 21 P and 25 P with better QC it would be worth the higher price. note that the Zm lenses have very, very few complaints of IQ issues, whereas CV quality control can be a bit lumpy. You get what you pay for to an extent. The Zm 21 4.5 is more than the CV 21 P but the performance is better in pretty well every regard and I have not heard of any decentering or other nasties. You pay your money and are almost certain to get the associated peformance.
 
note that the Zm lenses have very, very few complaints of IQ issues, whereas CV quality control can be a bit lumpy. You get what you pay for to an extent. The Zm 21 4.5 is more than the CV 21 P but the performance is better in pretty well every regard and I have not heard of any decentering or other nasties. You pay your money and are almost certain to get the associated peformance.


This is NOT my experience at all: I own (or have owned) seven CV lenses (75mm, 15mm, 25mm and 21mm, 40mm, 35/2.5 and 35/1.2; I still have two), and two Zeiss lenses (50/1.5 Sonnar and 25/2.8 Biogon).

Okay, not a statistically significant sample size, but BOTH my Zeiss lenses developed a "internal elements wobble" and a resultant focus issue within the warranty period and had to be replaced (Zeiss said they could not be repaired), while i have never never ever had one mechanical or optical problem with ANY of my CV lenses.

Furthermore, to me, the build quality of the CV 35/1.2 and 75/2.5 seemed better than the Zeiss lenses I've owned.

I for one am hesitant to pay for Zeiss lenses again. I will stick with CV and Leica for the time being.
 
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