venchka
Veteran
Steve...
Steve...
...ok here's what you do see.......
Listen up.
You buy a 4x5 camera. Then you lay in the weeds waiting...and waiting
patiently waiting for a long lens for your 4x5 camera
then one day it appears...condition is good...price is right...you poince on it...
A nice shiny perfect working order 305mm G-Claron in a Copal #1 shutter. Nice size. It fits your 4x5 camera perfectly. Focuses just fine at infinity with something left over for close-ups.
Ah, but you still long for "something wide" for the 4x5. No worries mate. You look around. 90mm fits the budget. It just doesn't seem wide. The really wide lenses for 4x5 cost more that a used car. What to do? What to do?
You really like the G-Claron. You want a wide lens to match it.
The lightbulb goes on!
Get a bigger camera. The 305mm G-Claron covers 7"x17" and then some. And boy do 7"x17" images look W-I-D-E! Lovely format. Make contact prints. Heaven!
Search around the Large Format Photography Forum On Photography area and note the various lenses used and the effect they give.
Ya savy?
Steve...
...ok here's what you do see.......
Listen up.
You buy a 4x5 camera. Then you lay in the weeds waiting...and waiting
patiently waiting for a long lens for your 4x5 camera
then one day it appears...condition is good...price is right...you poince on it...
A nice shiny perfect working order 305mm G-Claron in a Copal #1 shutter. Nice size. It fits your 4x5 camera perfectly. Focuses just fine at infinity with something left over for close-ups.
Ah, but you still long for "something wide" for the 4x5. No worries mate. You look around. 90mm fits the budget. It just doesn't seem wide. The really wide lenses for 4x5 cost more that a used car. What to do? What to do?
You really like the G-Claron. You want a wide lens to match it.
The lightbulb goes on!
Get a bigger camera. The 305mm G-Claron covers 7"x17" and then some. And boy do 7"x17" images look W-I-D-E! Lovely format. Make contact prints. Heaven!
Search around the Large Format Photography Forum On Photography area and note the various lenses used and the effect they give.
Ya savy?
rogue_designer
Reciprocity Failure
Oh! I like the way you think.
delft
Established
To add to the confusion:
Some older lenses (I think the Symmars) can be used with only the front or back part, yielding a lens with much larger focal length. You can try experimenting with this (if bellows draw is not the limiting factor).
Greetings,
Dirk
Some older lenses (I think the Symmars) can be used with only the front or back part, yielding a lens with much larger focal length. You can try experimenting with this (if bellows draw is not the limiting factor).
Greetings,
Dirk
venchka
Veteran
Rogue Designer,
Thanks! I wish I could afford to put my thoughts into practice.
Lots of symmetrical lenses out there that function very well with one cell in place. I have two: A Voigtlander Collinear II that goes from 200mm to about 300mm and a Bausch & Lomb Rapid Rectilinear that goes from about 150mm to about 250mm. The only problem is figuring out the new f-stops.
The Schneider Symmar Convertibles are nice too. The f-stop scale is present for both focal lengths.
Here's a nice comparison of 210mm lenses:
http://www.hevanet.com/cperez/test/BigMash210.html
Are we having fun yet?
Thanks! I wish I could afford to put my thoughts into practice.
Lots of symmetrical lenses out there that function very well with one cell in place. I have two: A Voigtlander Collinear II that goes from 200mm to about 300mm and a Bausch & Lomb Rapid Rectilinear that goes from about 150mm to about 250mm. The only problem is figuring out the new f-stops.
The Schneider Symmar Convertibles are nice too. The f-stop scale is present for both focal lengths.
Here's a nice comparison of 210mm lenses:
http://www.hevanet.com/cperez/test/BigMash210.html
Are we having fun yet?
Last edited:
Glenn2
Well-known
As others have said, anything wider than 90mm on 4x5" is a PITA. You start needing bag bellows, recessed boards and other expensive headaches.
When I was in a similar position my choices were 90-150-240mm. Found a 90mm Super Angulon at a decent price and haven't had the urge for wider.....at least not too often. For real wide there's always 15 and 21mm on the Leica.
My 90mm Super Angulon is not the fastest lens at f/8 wide open, but it does cover 5x7" and allows a lot of movement. Tilts can give you an everything in focus effect like super wides so DOF isn't a problem.
Because the 90 Super Angulon covers 5x7" I've even thought of building an ultra light Hobo style camera with nothing other than focus. Might be fun as long as I stuck with scanning negatives and didn't start looking for a 5x7 enlarger. ;-)
Glenn
When I was in a similar position my choices were 90-150-240mm. Found a 90mm Super Angulon at a decent price and haven't had the urge for wider.....at least not too often. For real wide there's always 15 and 21mm on the Leica.
My 90mm Super Angulon is not the fastest lens at f/8 wide open, but it does cover 5x7" and allows a lot of movement. Tilts can give you an everything in focus effect like super wides so DOF isn't a problem.
Because the 90 Super Angulon covers 5x7" I've even thought of building an ultra light Hobo style camera with nothing other than focus. Might be fun as long as I stuck with scanning negatives and didn't start looking for a 5x7 enlarger. ;-)
Glenn
Last edited by a moderator:
venchka
Veteran
Glenn,
It's a slippery slope isn't it? 5x7 could be wonderful or very dangerous.
It's a slippery slope isn't it? 5x7 could be wonderful or very dangerous.
dazedgonebye
Veteran
Speed graphic won't go as wide...right?
Sorry, I remain unconvinced that I'll never want to go wider...in spite of just about everyone saying 90mm is enough.
I start to wonder who is buying the 65mm and 75mm lenses.
Sorry, I remain unconvinced that I'll never want to go wider...in spite of just about everyone saying 90mm is enough.
I start to wonder who is buying the 65mm and 75mm lenses.
venchka
Veteran
Folks who need them...
Folks who need them...
...for interiors, etc.
Folks who can afford them and just want them.
My 105mm lens works on my Speed Graphic. I'm pretty sure I have read that 90mm lenses work as well. Zero movements with the Speed Graphic. The front standard is inside the box.
Sample with 127mm Ektar. First photo. I think I was about 15' from the drill press.
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55190&highlight=heavy+metal
Folks who need them...
...for interiors, etc.
Folks who can afford them and just want them.
My 105mm lens works on my Speed Graphic. I'm pretty sure I have read that 90mm lenses work as well. Zero movements with the Speed Graphic. The front standard is inside the box.
Sample with 127mm Ektar. First photo. I think I was about 15' from the drill press.
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55190&highlight=heavy+metal
venchka
Veteran
If you frame for it, you can always crop a 4x5 negative to 2x5 which equals 4x10 which LOOKS wide. Heck, you can crop 4x5 to the 7x17 aspect ratio. And still have about half an acre of negative.
edit to add ps:
Since you will be scanning and ink jetting, just stich a few frames together. That will get you W-I-D-E.
edit to add ps:
Since you will be scanning and ink jetting, just stich a few frames together. That will get you W-I-D-E.
Last edited:
rogue_designer
Reciprocity Failure
With the Speed graphic, you'll certainly have to drop the bed, and even then, you may not be able to use a 65.
Architectural photographers are the biggest market for the 65/75 lenses. And those using digital backs on viewcameras.
I'm not saying you won't find a use, or come to love a 65. But at the price they run, even used, I'd start with a cheap 90 and see how you feel first.
90 is pretty wide
Architectural photographers are the biggest market for the 65/75 lenses. And those using digital backs on viewcameras.
I'm not saying you won't find a use, or come to love a 65. But at the price they run, even used, I'd start with a cheap 90 and see how you feel first.
90 is pretty wide
chachi
Member
first off, i didn't know you *could* drop the bed on a graphic. so i learned something here today.
excuse me if you've moved on from this topic, i was just perusing old threds and thought i'd chime in. i use a 90 on my graphic frequently and like it a lot, but as others have mentioned here, the bellows are in the box to enable use of it. i don't think you'd be able to use anything much wider on these cameras, just not physically possible. if you try it and find different, please follow up, as i myself could see going wider.
excuse me if you've moved on from this topic, i was just perusing old threds and thought i'd chime in. i use a 90 on my graphic frequently and like it a lot, but as others have mentioned here, the bellows are in the box to enable use of it. i don't think you'd be able to use anything much wider on these cameras, just not physically possible. if you try it and find different, please follow up, as i myself could see going wider.
rogue_designer
Reciprocity Failure
I'm pretty sure you can on some models. But frankly, I was going by the Linhof technika and Horseman metal field bodies, which I know you can drop the bed on.
venchka
Veteran
You can certainly drop the bed on my 1953 Pacemaker Speed Graphic. I think it drops 20 degrees and the front standard tilts 20 degrees back to make the lens board align with the film plane.
amoebahydra
Established
Using 400mm with tele design is not that bad as the actual extension required is about 2/3 of the actual focal length. An example is Schneider Apo-Tele-Xenar 5.6/400 Compact...
venchka
Veteran
Stop it! I had to get a paper towel and dry off my keyboard. That is gorgeous industrial design and manufacture. The photo ain't shabby either!
chachi
Member
yeah, mine's older, an army graphic, don't know the year. but i read that, took a look at the camera and noticed there was more travel in the hinge. awesome, i kept getting rails in my pics with the 90mm.
amoebahydra
Established
My technika with wide-angle-focusing device, Hassy CFV digital back and Apo-Grandagon 1:4.5/35 lens at "drop-bed" configuration. Actually, the wide-angle-focusing device is good for 58mm and for 35mm it is more practical to use the back plane for focusing instead.
Last edited:
dazedgonebye
Veteran
That's one pretty set up.
Just to round this thread out...Today I bought a super angulon 90mm f8. I still feel I would have preferred a 75mm, but this was a good deal and I need to keep my total investment down.
Now all I need is something around 240mm. I'm hiding and waiting for a good deal there too.
Just to round this thread out...Today I bought a super angulon 90mm f8. I still feel I would have preferred a 75mm, but this was a good deal and I need to keep my total investment down.
Now all I need is something around 240mm. I'm hiding and waiting for a good deal there too.
amoebahydra
Established
Similar view, my most used lenses set are the Linhof selected trio:
Super-Angulon 5.6/75
Apo-Symmar 5.6/150
Tele-Arton-S 5.6/250
The Linhof calibrated cams for each lens together with the Linhof multifocal viewfinder enable me to do shoulder top shooting without need for focusing with ground-glass.
David Goldfarb
Well-known
One thing I found when I added medium and later large format to the arsenal was that I used wide lenses less on the smaller formats and more on the larger formats, because a wide lens can take in lots of information, and it's often better to get it all on a bigger piece of film, presuming of course that the logistics of the larger camera don't prevent you from getting the shot.
I also use a 4x5" Technika with 55mm, 65mm, 75mm, and 90mm lenses at the wide end, and I'd say in order of frequency of use, that would be 90mm, 75mm, 55mm, and 65mm. I use the 55 more than the 65 because the 55mm is a better lens than the 65mm I happen to own.
At the long end I have an old 360/5.5 Tele-Xenar, and if I need something longer, I switch to a rollfilm back.
Nikon made a 360/500/720mm telephoto set for 4x5", where you can exchange the rear cell to change the focal length, and since it's a telephoto design, you only need about 2/3 the focal length in terms of bellows extension.
I also use a 4x5" Technika with 55mm, 65mm, 75mm, and 90mm lenses at the wide end, and I'd say in order of frequency of use, that would be 90mm, 75mm, 55mm, and 65mm. I use the 55 more than the 65 because the 55mm is a better lens than the 65mm I happen to own.
At the long end I have an old 360/5.5 Tele-Xenar, and if I need something longer, I switch to a rollfilm back.
Nikon made a 360/500/720mm telephoto set for 4x5", where you can exchange the rear cell to change the focal length, and since it's a telephoto design, you only need about 2/3 the focal length in terms of bellows extension.