Better than Rolleicord?

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pgadler

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Hi all,

I'm back using 120-format film, and in my case a Rolleicord wich I'va CLAd myself and it's working OK.

But it's not pocketable. I daytravel in my work and would like something less bulky than the Rolleicord.

So I turned to the 120 RF Folders forum, scanning all suggestions and advise. But...

The exemple pictures on the forum from a 120 folder are often more soft than what I see in the TLR forum from the Rolleis.

If I put the question: "Are Rolleis sharper than 120 RF Folders" in the TLR forum, I would propably get a positive answer. Therefor I put the question here:

Are a 120 RF Folder with, i e Solinar, Color Skopar or such lens, as sharp as a Rolleicord with Xenar?

I'm not comparing the 120 RF Folders with Rolleiflex with Tessar, since that is not what I have. I have a Rolleicord with a Xenar 3.5/75.

Regards,

Patrik/Sweden
 
The answer lies in the condition and alignment ( collimation ) of the cameras you are comparing. Most folders have a difficult time keeping the lens perfectly parallel to the film gate, while a TLR ( if properly aligned ), usually is much better in this respect. The lenses themselves ( Solinar vs Xenar ) are pretty much equivalent performers...but holding them so they throw a flat image on the film gate is another issue.

Dan
 
A Rollei uses a movable front platform to move the entire lens forward and backward as a single unit. In addition to unit focusing, it uses ground glass to set the focus - which works very well in good light.

Most folders focus by rotating the front element, which causes the image resolution to soften somewhat close in.

I know of only five 6x6 folders that use unit focusing - Mamiya Six, Ensign Autorange 820, Certo 6, Agfa Super Isolette and the Soviet copy of the Super Isolette, which is the Iskra.

My experience is that the Agfa Super Isolette and Soviet Iskra will match, if not exceed, the sharpness of a Rolleicord with a Xenar provided that the RF apparatus is properly calibrated. The Soviet Iskra has the better RF apparatus of the two. Both cameras have front standards that self erect and lock in place with no wobble.

In use the Rolleicord is much better to compose and frame with with even though the viewfinder is reversed from left to right. In low light - I'd rather have the Super Isolette or the Iskra to focus with - provided that the RF/VF has been cleaned.

Personally, I prefer eye level handling of the folder . Look down finders are fine for me when using a tripod. For hand-held shooting I prefer an eye level finder. On my Super Isolette - I use an auxiliary Voigtlander 6x6 Kontur finder - which allows for a 1:1 view of my subject with both eyes open.
 
Solinar said:
I know of only five 6x6 folders that use unit focusing - Mamiya Six, Ensign Autorange 820, Certo 6, Agfa Super Isolette and the Soviet copy of the Super Isolette, which is the Iskra.
Click to expand...

Bessa RF, Bessa II, Welta (Su)Perfekta, Weltur, Super Baldax (at any rate some variants) and the Makina series would be other examples - though stretching the format (only Perfekta and Baldax are 6x6 without frame inlay) or concept (Perfektas are folding TLR, Makinas are strut folders).

However, the disadvantages of cell focusing are not that big that they make for a visible difference in every-day situations - front cell-focused lenses have a narrower sweet spot range, but that won't hit you unless you do close-ups. Images from my unit-focused cameras certainly are not consistently sharper than those from the cell-focused ones. Calibration, stability and the lens quality are more critical factors that affect the performance of folders.

Of course, many Rolleiflexes use later lenses - a Planar or Xenotar is superior to the Tessar types which were high grade in the folder age.

Sevo
 
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If you had a strong pocket I would highly recommend the Iskra ... getting a decent one can be a bit of a crap shoot though!
 
Solinar said:
I know of only five 6x6 folders that use unit focusing - Mamiya Six, Ensign Autorange 820, Certo 6, Agfa Super Isolette and the Soviet copy of the Super Isolette, which is the Iskra.
Click to expand...

And you can cross the Ensign off your shopping list - only about 500 were ever built, so they cost a mint. Ebay prices - over £1000 GBP when one does appear.

There is an uncoupled version which is considerably cheaper - the 820 Special - and the ordinary 820 which is relatively common and relatively affordable, but if it's the coupled RF you are after, forget it unless you have a bucketload of spare cash handy!

Actually, reading the above... I hate to disagree with Solinar, but the 820 is 6x9 - 8 on 120 - not 6x6. There was a 12-20, but not that I've ever seen with a CRF.

Adrian
 
In general, a Solinar, Skopar and Xenar are Tessar-type lenses (four elements in three groups).

You should get similar performance, although you'll find that most folders use front-element focusing (only the front element moves), while the Rolleicord uses unit focusing (the entire lens moves). I think that the difference in performance is negligible, but many people disagree.

So Solinar = Skopar = Xenar = Tessar.

Check out the Agfa Isolette III, the Zeiss Ikon 521/16. Both should be less than $100.

Those with rangefinders are always more costly, although the Isolette III is usually less because many unserviced Agfa folders share the same problem: bellows with leaks and stuck lens helicals.

The Zeiss Ikon 521/16 with a Tessar is a very good camera.
 
I have a Rolleiflex 2.8f Xenar and several folders, my favorite being the Agfa Super Isolette with a Solinar lens (the Iskra Keith mentions is a copy of it). If the Xenar is is better, I haven't seen it yet. They just have a different character or look (I lean towards the Isolette's look!). I find focusing much easier with the Isolette.
 
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I don't think sharpness is really what the Xenar was famous for. In fact, it is generally accepted that the sharpest 4/3 design was the Tessar. Having said this, there are many different different Tessars around, most of them made by Zeiss, but most of them are very sharp. The Xenar was renouned for B&W photography and the ability to produce very clear shadow details. I have a Rollei Xenar TLR and I must say colour came out very well. But really the Xenotar is quite another league, both in terms of colour and sharpness.

It is only fair to compare your Rolleicord to a folder with coupled rangefinder. Then when it comes to sharpness, the Super Ikonta and Super Isolette will beat te Xenar. But I do enjoy using the Xenar for the old fashion creamy feel of the pics. I keep a few cameras because each lens has its own character and it is nice to be able to pick and choose for different occasions. But one must also bear in mind that films also have their characters. So mixing them with different lenses for different lighting conditions can also be a matter of personal taste.

I do quite a bit of enlargements (up to 24x36 and 30x30) and in these sizes, the performance of different lenses can be quite apparent.
 
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