Zeiss Ikon Folder Market Value?

[Tim N Calif]

Advice or opinions requested and welcome:

Apologies for the lousy photo, as I am traveling only with a digital phone camera. While overseas, I found this Zeiss Ikon folding RF, in what appears to be excellent shape, at an estate sale auction. Seller allowed me to take this photo, body appears very clean without dings, marks, etc . . . and bellows and interior looks tight and new. Lens is "Carl Zeiss Tessar 1:3.5f 10.5 cm." Outer surfaces of the glass looks clean. Admittedly, I don't know a thing about these 120s, as I just returned to 35mm flim after finally sending the daughter off to college.


I'd like to give the 120 format a try, but have no idea as to a reasonable price for this folder? And, would this device produce good images, and is it easy to use?

Many thanks, Tim SF 🙂

 

[VictorM.]

Info here: http://www.cameraquest.com/zikontc.htm
Check the usual sources for value: completed ebay auctions (NOT Arsenal!), KEH, Ritz Collectables, Certo6

 

[FallisPhoto]

Also check that swing arm that pivots up from the front standard. if it is loose, with much wiggle room from front to back at all, or if the rangefinder tracks diagonally, don't get it.

 

[Muggins]

Well, cosmetically it looks great - so if the worse comes to the worse, you could have a great shelf camera!

The shutter should, I think, be a Compur of some sort and the lens a Tessar so it should certainly be capable of good results. No doubt others will add more, but the two items I would check first are whether the bellows seem light tight (as far as I know they are now known for cracking up, as Agfa bellows are), and the alignment of the images in the rangefinder window. There is a "gotcha" in the latter, I can't remember exactly what except that it is a right b. to fix, but I'm afraid you will have to search for it... sorry!

EDIT: Fallis has beaten me to the RF "gotcha", and I see you checked the bellows already - good man!

Adrian

 

[ZeissFan]

In general, these sell for between $250 and $500, sometimes more, sometimes less.

If it has a coated Zeiss-Opton Tessar, then this pushes the price up considerably. Those with the uncoated Carl Zeiss Jena still fetch a handsome sum, and an uncoated Tessar is still an excellent lens, as long as it doesn't have any scratches or fungus.

Always check for impact damage, and make sure that the lens door opens cleanly and that it locks into place.

From the photo, it looks like a good camera. A hands-on inspection is always better, but think of how many cameras have been bought from eBay using only a substandard photo. Of course, some/many of these turned out to be junkers ...

 

[FallisPhoto]

Well, cosmetically it looks great - so if the worse comes to the worse, you could have a great shelf camera!

The shutter should, I think, be a Compur of some sort and the lens a Tessar so it should certainly be capable of good results. No doubt others will add more, but the two items I would check first are whether the bellows seem light tight (as far as I know they are now known for cracking up, as Agfa bellows are), and the alignment of the images in the rangefinder window. There is a "gotcha" in the latter, I can't remember exactly what except that it is a right b. to fix, but I'm afraid you will have to search for it... sorry!

EDIT: Fallis has beaten me to the RF "gotcha", and I see you checked the bellows already - good man!

Adrian

If the camera has ever been dropped, or that swinging arm has taken a hit, and it is loose, it just never is going to work right. If it is tracking diagonally, it can be fixed, but it takes a long time and is a fiddly, nerve-wracking process that will leave you sick of the sight of the camera for months, if you don't just give up in disgust. Basically, you take the swing arm apart and you will find two prisms, mounted in finely toothed gears. You rotate one of the gears one tooth, put it all back together, and see if it tracks horizontally. If it is still tracking diagonally, and it will be, you take it apart and rotate that gear by another tooth, and so on. It can take up to three days to get everything aligned correctly. The fact that the screws are the size of pinheads, are about 1/16 inch long, and are painted black, so you can't really see them all that well, and that everything is under spring tension and it all wants to fly apart every time you take that arm apart, doesn't help. It can be fixed but if you have ever done it, you really don't want to ever do it again.

 

[Tim N Calif]

f 3.5/ 10.5 cm "Compur Rapid"

f 3.5/ 10.5 cm "Compur Rapid"

Thanks for all the valuable info, folks.

Closer inspection shows a "Compur Rapid" designation on the lens. I take this to mean its a "Super Ikonta C" according to the list. Inside the box, there's a deisgnation "B 2" if that means anything.

How would one discern if its a coated lens or not?

Finally, the viewfinder moves fairly horizontally, but compared to my M3, the image is dim, not to mention tiny. The swingarm seems tight also. How does one adjust the f stop on this throwback to the past?

Thanks, Tim

 

[literiter]

Looking at this beautiful camera I'd say it has a uncoated Tessar. It will still take a decent picture. ( the cameras, I've seen with that little plaque by the handle, all had uncoated Tessars )
These cameras have squinty rangefinders and usually pretty wretched, but usable, Albada viewfinders. Fortunately, once you get used to using the thing, it can produce some very good images.
ZeissFan's suggestions for fair prices would agree with mine pretty well.

 

[ZeissFan]

I can read Jena on the lens, and based on that and the serial number, I can tell you that it's an uncoated Tessar. Nothing wrong with that.

Coated Zeiss-Opton lenses from that era tended to have a blue tint, or more accurately, reflections in the lenses tended to have a blue tint.

The rangefinder system probably needs to be cleaned. That's expected.

The same goes for the lens and the shutter.

To change the aperture, you simply push the pointer to the aperture that you want to use. Rotate the outside ring to change shutter speeds.

Don't compare this to an M6. The viewfinder is darker ... it doesn't focus as quickly, etc.

It's not a 35mm camera. The negative from this camera will be significant larger than a 35mm camera and will usually have better tonality and gradation.

These use a left-handed shutter release, which you can see next to the pop-up viewfinder. You also have to tension the shutter before each shot and wind the film slowly until the correct number appears in the small window on the back.

The B2 (sometimes BII) in the film chamber refers to the film size. It's a 6x9 camera. You could also fit a small mask in the camera that would allow you to shoot 6x4.5.

You only get eight shots per roll, so you won't be cranking out shot after shot in rapid fire fashion. In fact, the camera won't allow that, as everything about this camera requires careful thought and execution.

You have to be very mindful of parallax when shooting these, especially close up.

I have an earlier model and a later model (which needs to be restored).

Two shots with my 530/2:

Hobby horse -- see what I mean about parallax?

Portrait on Arista 400 EDU film

Great cameras, for sure.

 

[Muggins]

Thanks for all the valuable info, folks.

How does one adjust the f stop on this throwback to the past?

As Zeiss Fan says, and if you're not sure where the pointer is, in your photo it is on the right, almost in line with the foot on the film door. I think the aperture is behind the shutter, so you won't see it unless you open the shutter on B.

Uncoated lens, in practical terms, I think means that you are better suited (though note I don't say restricted to) to black-and-white film, and will need a hood if shooting anywhere within a country mile of the sun to cut down flare. Coloured filters will also be a good idea, depending on what you are doing. I'll shut up now and let the real experts tell you more, before I dig myself a hole.

As ZF says, these things are slow, really slow. I can't comment on the "real" Zeiss as I have a Moskva-4, the Soviet clone, but I found that slowing right down did wonders for my (admittedly sh1te) photography. You've also got a negative that's nearly the size of a quarter of a roll of 35mm, so you can do big things with it. Mine actually goes hillwalking with me, as it fits in a map pocket. The biggest irritation is that if you press the release, having forgotten to cock the shutter, you have to wind on to reset the double-exposure-prevention and thus lose a shot(things like this a part and parcel of a camera this age, some are much worse). I've got quite good at reaching round the front and tripping it from there to save the shot...

Adrian

 

[Nikon Bob]

Tim

You might find a manual here http://www.butkus.org/chinon/zeiss_ikon.htm .

Bob

 

[ZeissFan]

The manuals for most of Zeiss Ikon's prewar cameras (and many postwar cameras, as well) were small (3x4 inches) and brief -- maybe eight pages at most.

The cameras just weren't that complicated.

The manual to my Pentax K10D is something like 250 pages.

 

[Nikon Bob]

The manuals for most of Zeiss Ikon's prewar cameras (and many postwar cameras, as well) were small (3x4 inches) and brief -- maybe eight pages at most.

The cameras just weren't that complicated.

The manual to my Pentax K10D is something like 250 pages.

Yes, I'll have to file that bit of info for future reference. OTH I have always found that having a manual, if available, as a reference, no matter how simple or complex a camera is, helpful in finding out where the various controls are and how they function.

Bob

 

[FallisPhoto]

Finally, the viewfinder moves fairly horizontally, but compared to my M3, the image is dim, not to mention tiny.

That is just one of the joys of the albada viewfinder. There is no cure for it that I know of, so you'll just have to get used to it. It does work though and the camera can take some pretty decent photos if you do your part.

How does one adjust the f stop on this throwback to the past?

See the pointer on the right side of the shutter, in your photo? It moves.

Edit: The number B2, in the box, means it takes B2 film. B2 was the old designation for 120 film. There are free manuals for several Zeiss Super Ikontas on this website: http://www.davidrichert.com/manuals.htm

 

[Tom A]

Once you have gotten over the mechanics of using the camera - you will be amazed looking at those 6x9 cm negatives! Particularly with modern, high resolution films like PanF/Acros 100 and the new Tmax 2-400 (which looks even better than most older 100 asa films).
As was stated before - it is not a camera that you start "ripping" film through - it is much more contemplative and careful (exposures, focus and framing). The slight "flare" you might find with an uncoated Tessar just adds to its charm and also to the look of the finished print.
If it meets the technical criteria's outlined here in the past answers and if the price is moderate - go for it.
I am a confirmed M user - but I like larger negatives too. You can get superior prints with less hassle when you work from a 6x9 negatives - and it is still hand holdable. Great for landscape shooting, rack it out to infinity, stop down and fire!

 

[literiter]

The slight "flare" you might find with an uncoated Tessar just adds to its charm and also to the look of the finished print.

I have a coated and uncoated Tessars on Super Ikonta "C" cameras. They both appear to have the same amount of flare. Could just be mine, though both lenses are very clean. Use a hood, which can be found with a little patience. Zeiss A37 hood #1114 does the trick.

 

[Tim N Calif]

Thanks to All - Photos Soon

Thanks to All - Photos Soon

Arrived home from Singapore and recovered from the brutal jet lag.

Thanks to all to responded to my inquiry! I did bag this Ikonta Super for less than $200, and had it checked by a tech at Pro Camera, SF. Shutter is fine, but the focus is tight, attributed to old grease. I plan to load it with some fine grain B&W (Tom A's suggestion) and do some landscapes and portraits. Hopefully will be posting some photos in near future.

Appreciatively, Tim 😉

 

[Windscale]

Once you have sorted the grease etc., get yourself a slip-on lens hood and you are away. Try not to shoot into the sun as afterall it has an uncoated lens. But then uncoated Tessars are ideal for B&W as they will produce sharp images with very good shadow details.

One other tip for using folders, when you open the camera, do it gently, don't just let the bellows fire out, as the air pressure created inside the film compartment may displace the film from the film plate.

Good luck and show us your pics soon.

 

[FallisPhoto]

One other tip for using folders, when you open the camera, do it gently, don't just let the bellows fire out, as the air pressure created inside the film compartment may displace the film from the film plate.

If it gets to be a habit, the repeated impacts can also play havoc with your struts and front standard.

 

[raid]

What a great looking camera this one is.
Congrats on buying it.