Getting Started: Lens cost?

[jpmac55]

Greetings,

Here goes my maiden post:

I am considering getting a M8 used or otherwise but still doing some research. I presently shoot with a Canon 40D and have a decent lens investment. What price range can I expect to see for M8 rangefinder lens? For starters, I'd like something in the 24mm - 50mm range. Are there good non-Leica brands available?

While i have you, did you totally convert from a DSLR to a rangefinder or keep both?

Anyway, part of my decision criteria is learning how costly it will be to make a switch.

Thanks!

 

[Tom Niblick]

You will get quite a few opinions with this type of a post. Yes, there are some very good lenses out there for the Leica M8. Cosina Voigtlander (the same people who make most of the Zeiss lenses) make a wonderful and inexpensive 35 mm 2.5 Color Skopar lens as well as several 50 mm lenses. Their 25 mm lens is also excellent. In fact, you can buy both for the price of a single Zeiss lens. Or you can buy 3 to 6 CV lenses for the price of a single Leica lens. Taking the CV 35/2.5 for example. It has nearly exactly the same image quality of Leica's new 35/2.5 Summarit lens at 1/5 the price.

Of course, if you're going to buy a Leica, you owe it to yourself to get a Leica lens or two. I'd get a good used 50 Summicron of 90s vintage and a new 28 Elmarit ASPH. The pair will set you back about $2,300 or so while producing wonderful images.

You will, however, want to keep a DSLR for long and macro work. A 40D with a 100 macro and a 100-400 would cover everything else the M8 is not designed to do.

A word of caution, once you start shooting with a Leica, you'll find that the macro and long lens work wasn't all that important anyway. Your best images will be shot with that little M8 with the tiny 28 and the light 50 in your pocket.

Tom

 

[Roger Hicks]

Dear John,

Yes, you can get modern Zeiss and Voigtländer lenses and countless older lenses, the vast majority of which are objectively inferior but which can still have some appeal of their own, e.g. Canon 50/1.2.

Of course another alternative to a DSLR is a real SLR...

Cheers,

Roger

 

[Roger Hicks]

Taking the CV 35/2.5 for example. It has nearly exactly the same image quality of Leica's new 35/2.5 Summarit lens at 1/5 the price.

Dear Tom,

Not convinced (having used both). But of course a lot depends on your definition of 'nearly'.

Cheers,

R.

 

[tbarker13]

There are just so many nice lenses out there in m-mount and screw mount (usable with a converter).

One of the first things you need to decide is what you want from the lens. Will you use it for low light shooting? Is bokeh important to you? Do you want absolute sharpness across the frame? How much money do you want to spend on the lens?

You'll find a few different groups on this board. Some swear by the newest aspherical lenses made by Leica.
Some will tell you that the new lenses made by Zeiss and Voigtlander are close enough to the much pricier Leica glass that it makes little sense to pay all that extra cash.
And then there are those who love to pair their M8s with older vintage glass made by Leica, Canon, Nikon, Hexanon, etc.

If I were looking for one starter lens, I'd either go with a 28 or 35. From there, you can come up with at least a dozen different choices - each with numerous champions dwelling on this forum.


As for the DSLR question - I agree with Tom. If you need to do any telephoto work - anything over 90mm, you'll probably want to hold onto the DSLR for that.

 

[Tom Niblick]

Dear Tom,

Not convinced (having used both). But of course a lot depends on your definition of 'nearly'.

Cheers,

R.

Roger,

I have both a 35 Summicron V4 and the CV 35/2.5. I often get sharper shots with the CV BUT I love the color and rendition of the classic 35 cron. The CV is my rain/salt spray lens.

I'm basing the nearly from postings, emails and articles from Sean Reed who has tested one against the other. My nearly is 90 - 95% and based on my experience with the CV and his tests. Of course we're talking optical. Construction wise, there is no contest. Leica wins.

Of course, there is always sample variation with CV lenses. One copy might be great while another was put together on a hungover Monday morning.

Tom

 

[ferider]

What price range can I expect to see for M8 rangefinder lens? For starters, I'd like something in the 24mm - 50mm range. Are there good non-Leica brands available?

Welcome !

That range says you are probably looking for between 1-3 lenses.

I recommend to set your budget first; second pick your primary focal length; then look. You can easily spend between US 500 - 15k or so on a great 2-3 lens combo.

CV lenses are great. ZM lenses, too. And consider M-Hexanons. Classic Canons and Nikkors. Leitz lenses of course. But then which generation ? Some of the best Leica lenses ever (my opinion ) have been discontinued. Etc. Literally hundreds of lenses to pick from.

Please have a look at the flickr M-mount forum, we have over 23k example photos of many different M and adaptable LTM lenses. Maybe some lens signature will catch your eye ....

Cheers,

Roland.

 

[LeicaMSeattle]

I've read somewhere and have been told at some shops that CV lenses are like "Crack" for Leica users. It's already started for me with the 12mm Heliar.

 

[paulchow]

Good chance

Good chance

Leica is famous with their lens not the camera body ;this is the wrong way to buy a leica body and used other brands' lens? If used non-Leitz lens ,U may buy RD-1 and saved money to buy a Leitz. I used Panasonic G1 body now w/h 6 Leitz; I 'd sold out my M7 ,M6 , M4p , RD-1s; I like my sword very much now .U may try!!!!!!

 

[jpmac55]

You will get quite a few opinions with this type of a post. Yes, there are some very good lenses out there for the Leica M8. Cosina Voigtlander (the same people who make most of the Zeiss lenses) make a wonderful and inexpensive 35 mm 2.5 Color Skopar lens as well as several 50 mm lenses. Their 25 mm lens is also excellent. In fact, you can buy both for the price of a single Zeiss lens. Or you can buy 3 to 6 CV lenses for the price of a single Leica lens. Taking the CV 35/2.5 for example. It has nearly exactly the same image quality of Leica's new 35/2.5 Summarit lens at 1/5 the price.

Of course, if you're going to buy a Leica, you owe it to yourself to get a Leica lens or two. I'd get a good used 50 Summicron of 90s vintage and a new 28 Elmarit ASPH. The pair will set you back about $2,300 or so while producing wonderful images.

You will, however, want to keep a DSLR for long and macro work. A 40D with a 100 macro and a 100-400 would cover everything else the M8 is not designed to do.

A word of caution, once you start shooting with a Leica, you'll find that the macro and long lens work wasn't all that important anyway. Your best images will be shot with that little M8 with the tiny 28 and the light 50 in your pocket.

Tom

Thanks, Tom. I smiled when you mentioned the 100-400mm lens, I plan on selling my copy to help fund some of this. It's not considered a very heavy lens but I never use it. I've missed some wild life shots canoeing but my boat weighs less than my camera bag.

 

[jpmac55]

Thanks everyone. It sounds like the lens offering$ are similar to DSLR options. That is a bit of a concern because I cannot justify maintaining both formats. Having said that, I also own a Canon G9 which is a great little camera with macro, telephoto and captures in raw. Maybe that's the one two punch. We'll see.

 

[BillBingham2]

You have a CV 12mm lens that you will not find, very fun lens on a M8 or RD-1. There is some great glass, the real difference is the size and handling. I think that there are qualities to CV, ZI, Leica, older Canon and Nikkor glass that is very special. There are lots of reasons to put a range finder into your bag of tricks.

B2 (;->

 

[ben@btwhite.org]

Test the water!

Test the water!

John,

I would suggest you test the "rangefinder waters" with your toe before jumping in. Buy a Voigtlander R series film camera and one the the CV lenses (Nokton 35/1.2 or 40/1.2 make a good starting point) and spend some quality time running some rolls of film through it. See if it is for you.

Using a rangefinder is different from a modern DSLR. They both can produce marvelous images, but the road to that image is very different. You may find, like most people on this site, that the process of making images with a rangefinder camera is special and forces you to "see" differently. You also may find it is not for you. Your investment in a Bessa R2 or R3 and a CV lens would be much smaller than going straight to the M8. If you find it's not for you they hold their value well, and you can unload them on ebay.

A year ago, I was where you are now. I started with the R2a and 35/1.2. I now own 3 bodies (R2a, M6, M8) and 5 lenses (4 leica, 1 CV). Rangefinders are like crack if they are for you.

Cheers,

Ben

 

[russianRF]

There are some excellent Former Soviet Union (FSU) lenses that can be had for a song. Check Fedka, KievUSA, OKPhotocameras, and even the bay...

 

[jpmac55]

I swore I'd never go back to film but find it interesting how many folks like Ben suggest doing so by purchasing a Bessa or other film camera. I never developed my own though, rather, just brought it to a local shop.

Does your workflow include a scanner?

Not mentioned in my original post:

I am always drawn to the simplicity and feel of rangefinder images, especially black & white results. I never mastered Photoshop and seldom like the long term results once I get by the wow factor. I invested in Aperture and a plug in or two, that's it.

Doing homework here has enlightened me to a hidden draw of the rangefinder format - it's like a love affair with the process. I much prefer viewfinders and not so much the view on the screen before snapping a photo. In fact I hate it.

 

[Bassism]

It sounds to me like you might really enjoy using a rangefinder. I do shoot film, develop it myself, then scan it into the computer. Once in the computer, you have all the tools available to digital. If you're interested in black and white, I'm of the opinion that digital bw result just can't match.
Picking up a film rf to test the waters is a great idea. Not only do you potentially save a chunk of money, but if you enjoy the process, you may find yourself enjoying film photography again.

As far as lenses go, as mentioned there are plenty of options, all the way from the great FSU lenses at 20 bucks right up to the new leica glass at many thousands of dollars. It all depends on your budget and what specific qualities you look for in a lens. It needn't be expensive

 

[jpmac55]

Just curious on pricing. There is a "mint" M6 TTL on craigslist for $1,500. Is that a competitive price?

 

[nbphoto]

Just curious on pricing. There is a "mint" M6 TTL on craigslist for $1,500. Is that a competitive price?

Is that with any glass? In the UK you can pick up a mint boxed M6TTL and 50mm summicron for £950 = $1333, or mint body for £700 ish.

If I were you, I would get a 35mm CV and 50mm summicron, then shop around to get a good second hand deal on an M6 / M4p / Bessa. If you buy wisely, then depreciation isnt really a factor. I made the mistake of buying the 50mm, with a promise to get the 35mm when funds allowed.. As it is, im still without that 35mm. Make sure you budget for it initially, even if that means spending less on the body. If you like shooting with a rangefinder, you will be able to trade your film body for an M8 later with no financial loss I should imagine.

 

[jpmac55]

Nope, that's $1,500. without glass. Of course maybe he'll take less.

I'm thinking maybe doing this in reverse order. If I dive in, I'll get started with a dig rangefinder and perhaps revisit film down the road. It appears to me that regardless of which media comes first, most everyone get bit by the rangefinder bug!

 

[Photon42]

I am considering getting a M8 used or otherwise but still doing some research. I presently shoot with a Canon 40D and have a decent lens investment. What price range can I expect to see for M8 rangefinder lens? For starters, I'd like something in the 24mm - 50mm range. Are there good non-Leica brands available?

Not sure if you really look for an M8 (see other M6TTL posting). If yes, I'd recommend an Elmarit 28/2.8 as a starter lens, maybe paired with a 50. The latest version of the Elmarit is relatively inexpensive new in Leica terms. The wider lenses (from 35 on) require coding to avoid magenta casts, therefore I suggest getting something you know it works.

So for the 50, you can e.g. look at a Zeiss planar (new), or tons of vintage lenses. Just check upfront the availability of IR-Cut-Filters for the lens of your desire.

While i have you, did you totally convert from a DSLR to a rangefinder or keep both?

Well - I keep a D200, but didn't use it much. The Pana G1 seems the better pairing with a Rangefinder, as it accepts M lenses with an adapter. Not to mention the form factor.

Anyway, part of my decision criteria is learning how costly it will be to make a switch.

You probably know that a rangefinder cannot substitute a (D)SLR in terms of versatility. Of course, the switch will be very costy over time

Cheers
Ivo