M2 - some wiggle in the advance lever

[tinglers]

Hi

There is some play, or wiggle room, on circular base of the advance lever of my newly acquired M2. In other words the pivot moves a little, less than 1mm, when I am advancing. My previous M6 was locked down tight. Is this something that I should have adjusted so that it doesn't develop into a more serious condition? Personally I can live with this, but I want to make sure its not something I SHOULD have adjusted.

 

[Tom A]

Nah, dont worry about it. Most of my M2's has that little "wiggle" and work fine. Check your film and see if there is a spacing problem, if there is - have it tightened up. The advance of the M2 is driven by a couple of toothed gears and you dont want it too tight as that induces extra and un-necessary wear on them.
The M's also has a bit of a "stand off". The lever can be pulled a fraction to enable you to slide your thumb behind it. The "wiggle" is just a minor continuation of this. M2 advances are quite rugged and and if 40+ years of using them, I have only had problems a couple of times.

 

[cfritze]

This brings up a question: should I expect my M2's advance lever to snug fully up against the shutter speed dial under it's own spring pressure? When I'm shooting, the advance lever often finishes up 90% returned back to its original position. Nice for getting your thumb to engage it for the next advance, but does it indicate a sloppy mechanism on my camera? (sorry, relative Leica newbie)

 

[Tom A]

Just come back from a two roll walk. Thought about your wiggly lever and checked the two M2's that I was using. Both have a slight wiggle laterally but are tight up/down. Check that the chrome surround of the (the "dish") release button is tightly screwed down. If this one is loose, it does allow the lever a bit of a wobble. It is rare that they come loose, but it can happen , usually from vibrations on plane or a car on bumpy and long roads. Easy too tighten yourself too.

 

[payasam]

Youxin Ye told me that the advance lever of the M2 he sold me had excessive stand-off. This would not be a problem, he said (it is not), and can be rectified by replacing a spring washer.

 

[cfritze]

thank you payasam

 

[Tom A]

The spring on the advance lever of a M2/M3 is not designed to bring the lever up against the shutter speed dial. There is a 15 -20 degree "stand off" that enables you to hook your thumb behind it - before it starts winding.
When you are looking at a used M2/M3 - check the shutter speed dial. If there are substantial dents when it is put at B/1s/ and other slow speeds - it could very well have been used on a copy stand and have 100 000's of exposures.
If it has a big dent on the flash synch setting and 1/250 or 1/500 - it could be an old press camera.
The "amateaur" setting tends to be 1/125 and small dents only. Using the shutterspeed dial as a "stop" is a bit crude as a design, but very effective. I think Leica changed to the plastic tip on the M4 after a lot of complains from anal retentive users getting marks on the dial. Personally I prefer the M2/M3 lever any day.

 

[tinglers]

thanks Tom

 

[Tom A]

Forgot this - always be suspicious of a M2/M3 with a pristine shutter sped dial, particularly if the rest of the body is a "user". Just like the rubber on the gas pedal of the used car - the dents on the dial shows how heavy the camera has been used. Dealers can replace the worn pedal rubber and also shutter speed dials to "fool" you.

 

[johannielscom]

... I think Leica changed to the plastic tip on the M4 after a lot of complains from anal retentive users getting marks on the dial. Personally I prefer the M2/M3 lever any day.

Tom, just wondering: I also like the M3 lever far more than the M5 lever and was wondering if I could fit an M3 lever on the M5? Does it fit at all?

 

[FrankS]

The spring on the advance lever of a M2/M3 is not designed to bring the lever up against the shutter speed dial. There is a 15 -20 degree "stand off" that enables you to hook your thumb behind it - before it starts winding.
When you are looking at a used M2/M3 - check the shutter speed dial. If there are substantial dents when it is put at B/1s/ and other slow speeds - it could very well have been used on a copy stand and have 100 000's of exposures.
If it has a big dent on the flash synch setting and 1/250 or 1/500 - it could be an old press camera. The "amateaur" setting tends to be 1/125 and small dents only. Using the shutterspeed dial as a "stop" is a bit crude as a design, but very effective. I think Leica changed to the plastic tip on the M4 after a lot of complains from anal retentive users getting marks on the dial. Personally I prefer the M2/M3 lever any day.

This is avery interesting and useful diagnostic tool to give clues as to the history of a camera. Thanks, Tom!

 

[Tom A]

Tom, just wondering: I also like the M3 lever far more than the M5 lever and was wondering if I could fit an M3 lever on the M5? Does it fit at all?

I never fitted a M2/M3 lever on a M5 (have done it on several M4P/M6) but some one out there will know.

 

[erikhaugsby]

I'm gonna bring a thread back from the dead, but because this thread seems pertinent to my question. It's not about wiggle, but a lack of wiggle in my M2's advance lever.

If I let the advance lever fly back after advancing, it stops about 5mm short of hitting the shutter speed dial. It also doesn't always have the "stand off" that Tom alludes to. sometimes it does without problem, sometimes it feels like the lever is stuck but then gets unstuck and wiggles, and on what seems like every third advance it flat-out refuses to wiggle (such that the little step on the advance lever is perpendicular to the body but never further to the right).

Full disclosure: the camera fell about a foot (right onto my closed laptop...) and the first point of impact was the tip of the advance lever. With that said, odds are the fall buggered up one of the gears under the lever? Could there be an easy solution short of opening up the camera?

 

[Vickko]

Yeah, should fit.

The base is the same as all M's. The arm length should be okay.

I never fitted a M2/M3 lever on a M5 (have done it on several M4P/M6) but some one out there will know.

 

[Vickko]

Hmmm. Maybe after the fall, something got knocked out. Probably could do well to clean it too.

The lever is held on with a simple lock threaded washer. You could use a big rubber stopper to unscrew it. It is only a few parts - the lever, a spring wave washer and the lock ring. Take it off, clean it up, regrease it and put it back together.

If the tension isn't right, bent the wave spring a bit until it feels right.

...

If I let the advance lever fly back after advancing, it stops about 5mm short of hitting the shutter speed dial. It also doesn't always have the "stand off" that Tom alludes to. sometimes it does without problem, sometimes it feels like the lever is stuck but then gets unstuck and wiggles, and on what seems like every third advance it flat-out refuses to wiggle (such that the little step on the advance lever is perpendicular to the body but never further to the right).

Full disclosure: the camera fell about a foot (right onto my closed laptop...) and the first point of impact was the tip of the advance lever. With that said, odds are the fall buggered up one of the gears under the lever? Could there be an easy solution short of opening up the camera?

 

[Vickko]

You can see the winding head here:

 

[erikhaugsby]

You can see the winding head here:

Thanks for the suggestions, Vickko.

 

[Vickko]

Instructions on how to disassemble:

http://feuerbacher.net/photo/repair/LeicaM4p/LeicaM4p.html

http://www.jumboprawn.net/jesse/cams/gear-profiles/leica-m2-overhaul/leica-m2-overhaul.html

 

[KoNickon]

I just looked at those two sites, and have concluded that removing the top cover of an M, even armed with the proper flexiclamps, is a right pain in the neck. Don't think I'll be doing that myself.