Riccis
Well-known
I am itching to get an M3 but before starting my hunt I wanted to ask you guys a couple of questions...
-Should I get a single stroke or double stroke? What's the difference?
-Is it possible to have DAG or someone else install the same film loading mechanism like the modern Ms (M6, M7, etc...)
-Anything else I should be looking for?
BTW, I want an M3 to shoot and not collect.
Thanks,
-Should I get a single stroke or double stroke? What's the difference?
-Is it possible to have DAG or someone else install the same film loading mechanism like the modern Ms (M6, M7, etc...)
-Anything else I should be looking for?
BTW, I want an M3 to shoot and not collect.
Thanks,
BillBingham2
Registered User
Another option to having it tweaked is to look for extra take-up spools. I have not idea as to where or what to look for, but I remember Tom A doing this with his M2s.
Write DAG or Sherry directly about doing it. It might be simple enough that Ye might be able to do a good job.
I have never owned am M3, though it's high on the lust list.
B2 (;->
Write DAG or Sherry directly about doing it. It might be simple enough that Ye might be able to do a good job.
I have never owned am M3, though it's high on the lust list.
B2 (;->
furcafe
Veteran
You may find Stephen Gandy's Cameraquest guide to be useful:
http://www.cameraquest.com/mguide.htm
As well as Andrew Nemeth's Leica FAQ page:
http://www.nemeng.com/leica/002be.shtml
1) Well, there's an obvious difference between the single & double stroke models, but perhaps less obvious are the fact that the single strokes are newer & incorporate several minor improvements that Leica introduced over the years into the M3. For example, if the single stroke is new enough, you can get the DoF indicators in the RF patch that were introduced w/the M2 (described in Mr. Gandy's page above). Having handled both, I prefer the single stroke mostly because it's more efficient; you can always use 2 strokes on a single stroke if you want to, but you can't advance w/1 stroke on a double stroke (though you can have the double stroke converted to single). Also, IIRC, the double stroke uses different parts that Leica no longer makes, so if the advance mechanism breaks, you have to replace it w/a single stroke, anyway.
However, some prefer the double strokes because of a perceived smoother advance & higher, even more old-school, build quality.
2) Yes. I think Leitz introduced the "modern" quick-load system in the KS-15(4) (a military version of the M2) back in 1966.
3) Be on the lookout for VF/RF separation, visible in its initial stages as golden "drops" around the edge of prism when looking into the VF from the front of the camera (towards the lens). This is discussed in Mr. Nemth's page above (towards the bottom). If the separation becomes total, the entire RF is shot & has to be replaced by 1 from a donor camera or re-cemented @ great cost by DAG, etc.
http://www.cameraquest.com/mguide.htm
As well as Andrew Nemeth's Leica FAQ page:
http://www.nemeng.com/leica/002be.shtml
1) Well, there's an obvious difference between the single & double stroke models, but perhaps less obvious are the fact that the single strokes are newer & incorporate several minor improvements that Leica introduced over the years into the M3. For example, if the single stroke is new enough, you can get the DoF indicators in the RF patch that were introduced w/the M2 (described in Mr. Gandy's page above). Having handled both, I prefer the single stroke mostly because it's more efficient; you can always use 2 strokes on a single stroke if you want to, but you can't advance w/1 stroke on a double stroke (though you can have the double stroke converted to single). Also, IIRC, the double stroke uses different parts that Leica no longer makes, so if the advance mechanism breaks, you have to replace it w/a single stroke, anyway.
However, some prefer the double strokes because of a perceived smoother advance & higher, even more old-school, build quality.
2) Yes. I think Leitz introduced the "modern" quick-load system in the KS-15(4) (a military version of the M2) back in 1966.
3) Be on the lookout for VF/RF separation, visible in its initial stages as golden "drops" around the edge of prism when looking into the VF from the front of the camera (towards the lens). This is discussed in Mr. Nemth's page above (towards the bottom). If the separation becomes total, the entire RF is shot & has to be replaced by 1 from a donor camera or re-cemented @ great cost by DAG, etc.
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Hilm3
Established
Since you are intending to use the M3, you might prefer the Single Stroke. Double Strokes have a different rhythm - not necessarily a bad thing.
Later models also have the Depth of Field indicators in the RF patch. They can be useful, but are mostly a clever novelty.
Pay careful attention to the VF/RF separation issue, as noted above.
The M4 and later load mechanism can be retrofitted into the M3, but it's expensive work. I do not find loading a problem - just time consuming. Truth be told, I have misloaded my M6 more often than my M3, probably because I am more careful and more deliberate with the M3.
Serial numbers above 1,000,000 are thought to be produced at the height of the factory's experience and talent, and therefore the best built. Those above 1,100,000 are sought out by collectors and tend to be overpriced.
The M3 hits its sweet spot with the 50 and 90 mm lenses. I particularly enjoy using a Summicron-M 90. At wide apertures and "rocking" method focusing, it is a sweet portrait combination. Bolt on a 1.25X eyepiece, and the 90 framelines are about the size of the 50 framelines on an M6 .72.
Hil
Later models also have the Depth of Field indicators in the RF patch. They can be useful, but are mostly a clever novelty.
Pay careful attention to the VF/RF separation issue, as noted above.
The M4 and later load mechanism can be retrofitted into the M3, but it's expensive work. I do not find loading a problem - just time consuming. Truth be told, I have misloaded my M6 more often than my M3, probably because I am more careful and more deliberate with the M3.
Serial numbers above 1,000,000 are thought to be produced at the height of the factory's experience and talent, and therefore the best built. Those above 1,100,000 are sought out by collectors and tend to be overpriced.
The M3 hits its sweet spot with the 50 and 90 mm lenses. I particularly enjoy using a Summicron-M 90. At wide apertures and "rocking" method focusing, it is a sweet portrait combination. Bolt on a 1.25X eyepiece, and the 90 framelines are about the size of the 50 framelines on an M6 .72.
Hil
cam
the need for speed
is it true that the M3 is the best M for accurate framelines with a 50mm lenses, regardless of focus distance?
cam
the need for speed
is there a difference in the VF between the DS and SS? (other than the DOF notches, i mean.)
chris00nj
Young Luddite
Double stroke may take a bit of getting used to. I could imagine myself doing one stroke and then unsuccessfully trying to press the shutter at an opportune moment.
Film loading isn't that much of an issue. I agree that finding an extra takeup spool and prefitting it with a roll is an easy way to change a roll quickly if needed.
I like the M3's viewfinder as it makes focusing a 90/2 wide open easy and accurate.
Film loading isn't that much of an issue. I agree that finding an extra takeup spool and prefitting it with a roll is an easy way to change a roll quickly if needed.
I like the M3's viewfinder as it makes focusing a 90/2 wide open easy and accurate.
cam
the need for speed
thank you!
furcafe
Veteran
I would say the framelines are the same accuracy, as far as coverage, as any of the pre-M4-P, i.e., before they shrank the framelines to cover the closer minimum focus distances of the newer lenses & to accomodate the 28mm frame. What's nice about the M3 is that you have the larger framelines plus the highest magnification available in an M body.
Riccis
Well-known
Thanks for all the responses. I understand that the film loading is not a big deal but since I may bring it along to shoot at weddings, I need to be able to load as quickly as the rest of my Ms...
Does anybody have a SS M3 that wants to sell me?
Cheers,
Does anybody have a SS M3 that wants to sell me?
Cheers,
samuelphoto
Established
Check the shutter speeds
Check the shutter speeds
As I recall, the older models didn't have the geometric progression of steps that the later modes had. I don't recall the sequence, but they likely won't agree with your meter. Either way, have DAG or Sherry give it a CLA and it'll be smooth as silk.
Check the shutter speeds
As I recall, the older models didn't have the geometric progression of steps that the later modes had. I don't recall the sequence, but they likely won't agree with your meter. Either way, have DAG or Sherry give it a CLA and it'll be smooth as silk.
furcafe
Veteran
Yes, the oldest M3s have the old European scale (1/2, 1/5th, 1/10th, 1/25th, 1/50th, etc.) like the thread mount bodies offered during the same time period & the Zeiss Ikon Contax IIa/IIIa competition.
vrgard
Well-known
For whatever it's worth, IMHO and nothing more, I find the difference between shooting with a single stroke and shooting with a double stroke camera to really be no difference at all. As a result, I would focus more on condition as a determining factor.
-Randy
-Randy
Benjamin Marks
Veteran
I have both SS and DS. No preference. There is a greater difference in shooting rhythm between M2/M3 and later M's that can be used with Tom A.'s Rapidwinder or the Leica M-winder.
M3's are solid machines.
Ben
M3's are solid machines.
Ben