martin.mintal
Member
Hi guys,
first, sorry for my long post. I have just found an interesting offer for a black Leica M6 TTL 0.85. The camera looks like new (the seller claims he only run about 10 films through her), absolutely no signs of use, original maker's box, still foil on the bottom.
Price: EUR 1029
He also has a Summicron M 50/2 (newest version) for EUR 520 and an Elmarit 2.8/90 for EUR 520 too .
Now, I have two question:
1. I always wanted a 0.85 Leica, because I always used my Canon lenses in the 50-125mm range (I have two dogs, so portraits is my favourite application) and I also like to do street shots with a 35-50mm lens. So I would benefit from the 0.85 viewfinder.
The camera is absolutely perfect - the only flaw it has is it is black. Now, I know, this may sound childish and I have also searched the forums, but it's very hard to judge from the pictures. To me - at least on the pictures - the black Leicas look like they are from plastic (don't get me wrong, I know quality will be superb, but I also want to have a nice camera
). My question for users with both color variants: what is your opinion - is the black M6 TTL - optically (I mean appearance, not the optics) - on the same level as the silver one? As I said, I do not have a possibility to compare the cameras, there is no Leica shop where I live, as far as I know...:bang: Ideally, I would buy a silver 0.85 M6TTL, but did not see any in the last 6 months.... (and I don't buy via e-bay)
Now the lenses: what is a better solution - should I buy the newest slower lenses or should I rather buy older quicker lenses ?
As I said, I could buy the newest 50mm f2 and 90mm f2.8 for about 500 EUR each (new lenses cost about 1200-1400 here), or an old 50mm 1.4 (from the 1960-1970) for about 700-800 EUR and an older Summicron-M from 1982 for about 700 EUR (from a LeicaShop in Vienna - their prices are higher than when buying from private sellers).
Newer 50mm f1.4 are still quite expensive (beginning at about EUR 1400). OK, I would not consider them to be expensive, if I had the bucks, but I am still a student, so..... The 50mm f1.4 Zeiss costs about 960 EUR and is quite soft at f1.4 (Zeiss claims they now about it .....it should deliver the nostalgic look from the 60s or something like that)
The newest 90mm f2 costs about 1300 (B/B-) at minimum, or 1700-1800 (A/A-), so it is rather out of my range, the 135mm are already quite big.
So, in short: is it wiser to buy older quick lenses or rather new slower lenses (ok, f2 is still ok, but you get the point....) ?
And should I go for the black one and forget the colour or will I :bang: later... ?
I know, there is also this 1.25 Lupe, but I still would like to have a 0.85 plus 1.25 lupe (thus, simulating SLR-like viewfinder).
Thank You Very Much For Your Help
MARTIN MINTAL
Slovak Republic
first, sorry for my long post. I have just found an interesting offer for a black Leica M6 TTL 0.85. The camera looks like new (the seller claims he only run about 10 films through her), absolutely no signs of use, original maker's box, still foil on the bottom.
Price: EUR 1029
He also has a Summicron M 50/2 (newest version) for EUR 520 and an Elmarit 2.8/90 for EUR 520 too .
Now, I have two question:
1. I always wanted a 0.85 Leica, because I always used my Canon lenses in the 50-125mm range (I have two dogs, so portraits is my favourite application) and I also like to do street shots with a 35-50mm lens. So I would benefit from the 0.85 viewfinder.
The camera is absolutely perfect - the only flaw it has is it is black. Now, I know, this may sound childish and I have also searched the forums, but it's very hard to judge from the pictures. To me - at least on the pictures - the black Leicas look like they are from plastic (don't get me wrong, I know quality will be superb, but I also want to have a nice camera
). My question for users with both color variants: what is your opinion - is the black M6 TTL - optically (I mean appearance, not the optics) - on the same level as the silver one? As I said, I do not have a possibility to compare the cameras, there is no Leica shop where I live, as far as I know...:bang: Ideally, I would buy a silver 0.85 M6TTL, but did not see any in the last 6 months.... (and I don't buy via e-bay)Now the lenses: what is a better solution - should I buy the newest slower lenses or should I rather buy older quicker lenses ?
As I said, I could buy the newest 50mm f2 and 90mm f2.8 for about 500 EUR each (new lenses cost about 1200-1400 here), or an old 50mm 1.4 (from the 1960-1970) for about 700-800 EUR and an older Summicron-M from 1982 for about 700 EUR (from a LeicaShop in Vienna - their prices are higher than when buying from private sellers).
Newer 50mm f1.4 are still quite expensive (beginning at about EUR 1400). OK, I would not consider them to be expensive, if I had the bucks, but I am still a student, so....
. The 50mm f1.4 Zeiss costs about 960 EUR and is quite soft at f1.4 (Zeiss claims they now about it .....it should deliver the nostalgic look from the 60s or something like that)The newest 90mm f2 costs about 1300 (B/B-) at minimum, or 1700-1800 (A/A-), so it is rather out of my range, the 135mm are already quite big.
So, in short: is it wiser to buy older quick lenses or rather new slower lenses (ok, f2 is still ok, but you get the point....) ?
And should I go for the black one and forget the colour or will I :bang: later... ?
I know, there is also this 1.25 Lupe, but I still would like to have a 0.85 plus 1.25 lupe (thus, simulating SLR-like viewfinder).
Thank You Very Much For Your Help
MARTIN MINTAL
Slovak Republic
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payasam
a.k.a. Mukul Dube
If the prices suit you, Martin, buy the lot. No difference between optics of chrome and black.
martin.mintal
Member
And....
And....
Is the older Summicron 2/90 (1982) optically on a similar level as the newer Elmarit 2.8/90 (between f2.8 - 5.6)?
F2.8, 90mm is probably ok for portraits, right ? Does the f2 make a big difference when doing indoor portraits ?
Thank You
mm
:bang:
And....
Is the older Summicron 2/90 (1982) optically on a similar level as the newer Elmarit 2.8/90 (between f2.8 - 5.6)?
F2.8, 90mm is probably ok for portraits, right ? Does the f2 make a big difference when doing indoor portraits ?
Thank You
mm
:bang:
martin.mintal
Member
last question
last question
where can I get a black dot ?
(if choosing the dark way)
last question
where can I get a black dot ?
(if choosing the dark way)
E.M
Well-known
Martin, I think it's a good price, if it is in top condition. Maybe you can shoot a test-roll ? I have a black and a chrome .72 ttl and I use the chrome one all the time. I bought the black new in 2003 for 2000 euros, it was one of the 2 last ttl from the importer. I keep it as a back-up or when I want to use 2 lenses. The chrome doesn't wear off that easily, if that is important to you. I prefer the look of a classic, but find the ttl easier to use. Good luck!
http://www.etiennemichiels.com
http://www.etiennemichiels.com
Bill Blackwell
Leica M Shooter
The latest lenses, including the Elmarit, are substantially sharper stop-to-stop compared those made over 25-years ago. This is not to say they are 'better.' This is a matter of style and taste.
It seems to me you're majoring in the very minor details. Black chrome vs. silver chrome is a matter of aesthetic taste. Both, assuming the same model and generation, are made from the same materials.
Also, IMHO, the prices you're being quoted seem more than reasonable.
And don't worry about the bloody dot!
photo4ls
Well-known
You should check w/Digitalintrique for black dots.
He had some available at one time a while
back. He is also a RFF member.
Nelson
He had some available at one time a while
back. He is also a RFF member.
Nelson
maddoc
... likes film again.
I once had a black chrome M6TTL 0.85x but sold it because I wear eye glasses and the frame - lines for 35mm are hard to see. For 50mm or 90mm lenses it is a fine machine, only small problem is the flare of the rangefinder-patch under some situations. (The older non-MP 0.85x VF has the biggest problem with flare, IMHO) By slightly twisting the camera, VF-flare usually disappears.
Many say that the black-chrome doesn't wear so nicely as black-paint, on the other hand it takes quite long until a black-chrome Leica starts showing signs of wear (and couple of hundred rolls of film).
The price sounds OK for me, if everything is in good working order. If it would be my first lens, the actual 50mm Summicron-M is a hardly to top and the Elmar-M 90/2.8 is of superb quality, too.
Cheers,
Gabor
Many say that the black-chrome doesn't wear so nicely as black-paint, on the other hand it takes quite long until a black-chrome Leica starts showing signs of wear (and couple of hundred rolls of film).
The price sounds OK for me, if everything is in good working order. If it would be my first lens, the actual 50mm Summicron-M is a hardly to top and the Elmar-M 90/2.8 is of superb quality, too.
Cheers,
Gabor
notturtle
Well-known
black chrome cameras are the same as chrome ones mechanically and IMO, the black is the nicer finish. With more recent Leicas the chrome is much nicer than on the M6s IMO; more metal and satin looking, rather than silvery.
Price looks OK. I would run a test roll to be sure all is well.
You can get the VF upgrade at a later date if you decide it is worth it.
As for lenses, if you want sharp as hell, get a ZM planar. They can be had used(mint) for less than $500. The look is kinda modern but no more than a modern summicron. f you want and older lower contrast look you could find an old summicron off ebay for a fair bit less than 500 Euros, but if the one you are being offered is a more recent model then that is a good deal. An old sumamrit 50 1.5 will give you a Leica Glow look, but resolution will be poor compared to modern lenses at the wider apertures. Do not forget about CV lenses to get you started, if that helps. To me the decision is relatively simple; if you are a modern look person, the ZM planar is unbeatable (on every count). If old school, the choices are many...
The 0.85 is lovely for 50mm. I agree with you that it makes 50mm MUCH more of a pleasure to use. The lines on the 0.72 finder are weeny and also ridiculously conservative, although if you are doing closer up work of dogs they may be roughly what you get on film. Further away you record loads more thanthe lines indicate.
Price looks OK. I would run a test roll to be sure all is well.
You can get the VF upgrade at a later date if you decide it is worth it.
As for lenses, if you want sharp as hell, get a ZM planar. They can be had used(mint) for less than $500. The look is kinda modern but no more than a modern summicron. f you want and older lower contrast look you could find an old summicron off ebay for a fair bit less than 500 Euros, but if the one you are being offered is a more recent model then that is a good deal. An old sumamrit 50 1.5 will give you a Leica Glow look, but resolution will be poor compared to modern lenses at the wider apertures. Do not forget about CV lenses to get you started, if that helps. To me the decision is relatively simple; if you are a modern look person, the ZM planar is unbeatable (on every count). If old school, the choices are many...
The 0.85 is lovely for 50mm. I agree with you that it makes 50mm MUCH more of a pleasure to use. The lines on the 0.72 finder are weeny and also ridiculously conservative, although if you are doing closer up work of dogs they may be roughly what you get on film. Further away you record loads more thanthe lines indicate.
tom_uk
Established
I bought a .85 M6TTL about a year ago in the UK. I bought a black body, but purely because that was what was available - I don't have any strong feelings as to which looks better, black or chrome.
I currently have a pair of new Summarits: 50mm and 35mm. Although I do wear glasses for reading & close work, I don't use them for looking through the viewfinder, so I've found that the 35mm lines, although right at the edges of my peripheral vision, are useable. And of course the .85 is ideal for longer lenses: the 50mm VF lines are excellent, and when I get a 90mm I'm sure I'll find the same for them.
I think the price is about right, for a dealer price. I paid a bit less (£800, which at the time would have been over €900) but I have a feeling that second-hand prices have firmed-up a bit since then. M7/M6/TTL second-hand prices in the UK seem to have increased by between £50 to £100 in the last year.
I currently have a pair of new Summarits: 50mm and 35mm. Although I do wear glasses for reading & close work, I don't use them for looking through the viewfinder, so I've found that the 35mm lines, although right at the edges of my peripheral vision, are useable. And of course the .85 is ideal for longer lenses: the 50mm VF lines are excellent, and when I get a 90mm I'm sure I'll find the same for them.
I think the price is about right, for a dealer price. I paid a bit less (£800, which at the time would have been over €900) but I have a feeling that second-hand prices have firmed-up a bit since then. M7/M6/TTL second-hand prices in the UK seem to have increased by between £50 to £100 in the last year.
normclarke
normclarke
M6ttl .85
M6ttl .85
I had a version of this model for about 2 years and found it to be a nice camera. With a few provisos, the 50mm frames are too small in comparison to the early models and I did'nt like the finish. I personnally found the V/F flare to be a vastly overrated item, a minute movement of the eye can nullify this problem. I think the price is too high, I sold my camera for £850 with a current 50mm Elmar last year. Perhaps I should have waited!
Cheers,
normclarke
M6ttl .85
I had a version of this model for about 2 years and found it to be a nice camera. With a few provisos, the 50mm frames are too small in comparison to the early models and I did'nt like the finish. I personnally found the V/F flare to be a vastly overrated item, a minute movement of the eye can nullify this problem. I think the price is too high, I sold my camera for £850 with a current 50mm Elmar last year. Perhaps I should have waited!
Cheers,
normclarke
nbphoto
Member
I purchased a mint m6ttl .85 and 50mm Summicron (Canadian build) all boxed and unused looking 5 months ago for £950 from a UK camera shop, so I guess the price is about the same if its in the condition you say it is.
On the .85, the 50mm is perfect and the 90mm is good too. For 35mm I wish I had waited and found a .72 finder model. However for portrait then I would suggest you buy the whole lot from this seller.
As for the look, well mine appears to be wearing well. No signs of any of the black finish rubbing through, and it looks better in real life than it looks in pictures. Very well made too. You do get flare with the .85. Sometimes you can shield the view finder with your hand to get rid of this, but forget about upgrading the viewfinder later. Leica UK suggested that it would cost more than a new MP when I enquired about this, so learn to live with it. Also, remember to turn it OFF when storing it. Even if its not wound on, depressing the shutter button in a bag etc will flatten the batteries over night. If I were doing it again, I would buy a .72 and 35mm summicron for what I do, but for your intended purpose, go for it.
On the .85, the 50mm is perfect and the 90mm is good too. For 35mm I wish I had waited and found a .72 finder model. However for portrait then I would suggest you buy the whole lot from this seller.
As for the look, well mine appears to be wearing well. No signs of any of the black finish rubbing through, and it looks better in real life than it looks in pictures. Very well made too. You do get flare with the .85. Sometimes you can shield the view finder with your hand to get rid of this, but forget about upgrading the viewfinder later. Leica UK suggested that it would cost more than a new MP when I enquired about this, so learn to live with it. Also, remember to turn it OFF when storing it. Even if its not wound on, depressing the shutter button in a bag etc will flatten the batteries over night. If I were doing it again, I would buy a .72 and 35mm summicron for what I do, but for your intended purpose, go for it.
notturtle
Well-known
nbphoto,
I do not know what leica told you but people in the US seem to be getting their M6 finders upgraded for about $200-300. This is a totally standard upgrade, which many owners of the older M7s have also taken advantage of. So, it is actually quite affordable if it matters to a person and could be done at a point in the future, perhaps if a CLA is required or other repairs for cost effciency reasons. Comparison (using US prices) is:
New MP (official) $4400 (grey $3200)
Used M6TTL $1200 + VF upgrade = less than $1500, so a third the price of a new official import MP or half the price of a grey import! I am sure the comparison would broadly hold true in Europe too.
I do not know what leica told you but people in the US seem to be getting their M6 finders upgraded for about $200-300. This is a totally standard upgrade, which many owners of the older M7s have also taken advantage of. So, it is actually quite affordable if it matters to a person and could be done at a point in the future, perhaps if a CLA is required or other repairs for cost effciency reasons. Comparison (using US prices) is:
New MP (official) $4400 (grey $3200)
Used M6TTL $1200 + VF upgrade = less than $1500, so a third the price of a new official import MP or half the price of a grey import! I am sure the comparison would broadly hold true in Europe too.
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