Leica LTM Dates, details (trivia)

Leica M39 screw mount bodies/lenses
David Hughes

David Hughes

David Hughes
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Hi,

I guess that, like most of us, I've added to the collection bit by bit. What I'd like to be certain of (if only that was possible) is the dates of smaller items. F'instance when did the black plastic tube first appear for the LTM lenses, and the same question for the plastic one like an upside down plastic jar with a black lid.

And what was made to fit the little pocket in the back of the ER Case? I've a small card of "Leitz Exposure Tables for the Leica Camera" (April 1936 List Photo 7477a) but wonder what else was available. And was it originally white card as mine is stained badly to match the leather and has the usual copper chloride green muck on it from the fastener and leather attack.

And lastly, did the lenses originally have the black Bakelite (?) lens cap and black brass rear lens cap as bought? Or were they later add ons? The catalogues never seem to mention them.

Oh yes, and did the lenses come in a little red box in cotton wool, or what? Trouble is you just don't know what's genuine after all those years have passed. Can any one shed some light, please?

Regards, David
 
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David,

Well, I`m good for the eras 1939 to 1946

Elmar 90`s and Hektor 135`s had a Black Bakelite Cap and Black Metal rear cap during that time.

Summitar`s originally had Chrome caps, (1939 issue) but in 1940/41 due to war shortages they went to the Black Bakelite cap and these were issued till they ran out in 1945, post June 45 they returned to Chrome.

All the Elmar 35`s and 50`s I`ve seen during the war had Chrome caps, seems they went to Black Bakelite on these only after 1945
*My Original as bought 1951 IIFBD has a Black Bakelite cap on it`s 50 Elmar*

I think that in the early 1950`s all the 36mm lenses, Summaron and Elmar all had the Black Bakelite caps.

That`s what I can add about the Bakelite lens caps that I know about.

Just about 1954 with the Red Scale Elmar production I know that they went back to using chrome ones, and all the rest of that era lenses also had chrome caps, Summicron, Summarex and Summarit etc.

Tom
 
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My first Summaron 35/3.5 had a black bakelite cap. It fit over the lens, of course, but it also fit inside the FOOKH hood.
 
Thanks for the answers: looks like I'm in for more expense. Still the stuff will be complete when my son throws it out after the inevitable has happened. Meantime I'd better get a bit more use out of it.

Anyone else care to contribute?

Thanks again. regards, David
 
Little red boxes are prewar I believe, clear and black plastic from the mid 50s (also beige and white boxes)????

Michael
 
many thanks. I'd assumed the clear plastic "jars" with the black lid came in with the M series but, of course, have one that is the screw thread version.

I've also found a small selection of New York Leitz booklets that I'd put aside some time ago (as the Wetzler & London versions show what's usually available in the UK without the further complications of the NY versions and, of course, the 1945 - 50 stuff which wasn't available in the UK). Anyway, the small acessories page of the 1939-41 books show black or chrome finish to the rear lenscaps and some front caps but not all. Also the first mention of a shoulder strap (FIBOS) as a replacement. And body caps in chrome only.

It gets complicated...

Regards, David
 
Thought I'd reopen or continue this thread by asking if any one knows when they changed from the large tripod bush thread (3/8th inch) to the 1/4" (Whitworth - from memory)?

The reason being I've a model II that looks as though it's got a much newer base plate on it. I'm not complaining but wondering...

Regards, David
 
I`m not sure but I think 1/4 inch tripod threads started about 1936 for Leitz New York Stuff? (Export marked "Germany") cameras.

3/8 inch tripod threads went all the way up till about 1955/56 on German (European) models.

Tom
 
Many thanks; I might have guessed you'd be first back with the answer.

The camera is 1935, from the serial number, and the base shows "open" then "Germany" and then "closed" or the other way round. So it's a bit "iffy" or else another part of the grand jigsaw puzzle.

Thanks again.

Regards, David
 
Curious...
My M2 has a 3/8" tripod tread.
The top plate dates to 1962 while the number under the bottom plate is from 1958. But in either case, does that make it a European camera?
 
My 1956 M3 had the larger tripod bush, my 1962 M2 has the smaller one. Not much help, this, as I do not know the market or markets for which the two were made.
 
Hmmm, I've 1937 and 1938 bodies with 3/8th and the M2 (1959) is 1/4". Talking of exports, from 1945 to 1949 or 50 the cameras were export only and , in practice - I'm told, that meant to the USA only. Certainly I've read of fines and prison sentences for Germans caught buying them on the black market, which doesn't quite make sense as I can't see where they'd come from except US Forces.

I also wonder about the USA only as I've lenses from that period that were not marked with the scale in feet but metric. As usual, the more you learn the less you know.

Regards, David

PS the source for the above was the Leica magazine of 1961.
 
David,

The camera ban for German Civilian`s was lifted in 1949, and certain individual`s both men and women, before then had special permits given to them by the US Military Government, so they could carry cameras, many of which worked for Pro-Allied/Pro-Western German speaking newspapers.....98% of all Leica production went to the US Forces from May 1945 to June 1947, after that exports were opened to all over the world including the USA.

Tom
 
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As for your kids dumpimg everything when you're gone, just take them over to Ebay for a bit of an adventure. Let them see how this lenshood is worth $75 and that empty box might bring $150. Let them marvel at what collectors pay for 50 year old sales literature. My son is now convinced that there's plenty of reason to list every last little thing as a seperate item. He might not have much interest in photography or cameras but he understands money just fine.
 
LeicaTom said:
David,

The camera ban for German Civilian`s was lifted in 1949, and certain individual`s both men and women, before then had special permits given to them by the US Military Government, so they could carry cameras, many of which worked for Pro-Allied/Pro-Western German speaking newspapers.....98% of all Leica production went to the US Forces from May 1945 to June 1947, after that exports were opened to all over the world including the USA.

Tom
Click to expand...

Hi,

The article I was thinking of was written in German then translated into English. It was as an aside dated 1961 about a newspaper article dated 1949 (also in German). So chances of getting to the bottom of it are remote.

Re-reading it last night I saw that the guy who got 6 weeks inside had fallen foul of the price regulations by buying and selling a Leica for DM 1800.

Regards, David
 
Al Kaplan said:
As for your kids dumpimg everything when you're gone, just take them over to Ebay for a bit of an adventure. Let them see how this lenshood is worth $75 and that empty box might bring $150. Let them marvel at what collectors pay for 50 year old sales literature. My son is now convinced that there's plenty of reason to list every last little thing as a seperate item. He might not have much interest in photography or cameras but he understands money just fine.
Click to expand...

Hi,

We started counting the cameras about 18 months ago but it got complicated by my supply of "just in case that one breaks" ones. Anyway, we'd over a hundred. Since then about 40 have been given away to charity shops or friends and we are trying to get the collection down to half a dozen. Then we can use them instead of trying to put a film or two through each one.

The big problem is trying to decide and also trying to justify packing them properly to sell on ebay. Bitter experience tells me this is important as I've had Leica bodies arrive in a single layer of bubble wrap inside a box about ½" bigger all round than the body. And filters put into a sheet of paper (the paypal advice) and then into an envelope and the bugga charged a lot for it.

Anyway, thet's the story behind the original enquiry. I wanted to have very little but have it correct, so the right lens in the right camera with the original instructions and the right... well, I guess you know the rest.

Regards, David
 
1/4 " on 657XX which is a Leica I in that it has the large rewind knob and a square accessory shoe.
Also 'open/closed' in English and lens in feet.

Michael
 
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