Tell me about the 90/2 Summicron

[wjlapier]

Seems I might like to add the 90mm Summicron to my bag and have found one in black color version I. I know nothing about this lens and was hoping some of you who own/owned this lens could tell me about it. A couple things I'm wondering about is how sharp is the lens is at f/2? Is the black version black paint or chrome? How much larger in physical length is it compared to the 50 DR 'cron? Thanx for anything you can share to help me make the decision.

Bill

 

[ferider]

Hi Bill,

a bit more info will help in identication. Like serial nr. and/or filter size.

Roland.

 

[Tom A]

Version I (60's version) is BIG. Commonly known as the Big Bertha. At f2 it has somewhat soft edges but nice sharp center. The black finish is anodizing on most of them. The hood is a 2 tube collapsing version.
If the one you are looking at is black paint with a sep. hood - it is worth big bucks as that was a special order version - it was also black paint over brass and weighs almost 2 lbs!!!
Later, in the 80's, Leica released a smaller version of the Summicron (#3xxx xxx). First version of this one had a collapsible hood that covered up the aperture ring! Later it was replaced with a more ergonomically correct version. Never liked the either of these - performance was just OK - and now character.
The first version has its own tripod bushing too. It was a good lens and was really matched to the 35f2 Summicron Version I and the 50f2 vI. It was the "standard" package for many press guys in the early 60's.

 

[raid]

Tom,
I have that"standard package for press guys" set of chrome 35mm/50mm/90mm Summicron lenses. Their built is second to none, in my opinion. I cannot make myself even think of ever selling this set. It "is" what Leica is about.

 

[wjlapier]

Hi Bill,

a bit more info will help in identication. Like serial nr. and/or filter size.

Roland.

Hello Roland,

The serial number is in the high 2 millions. Not sure about filter size.

 

[Tom A]

If the # is in the 2 Million (2.8xx xxx/2.9xx xxx) - check that it not the version were the hood slides over the aperture ring. It will drive you nuts!
The performance of the "compact" 90f2 from the early 80's is somewhat lack-lustre.
Raid - you never need to take up a gym membership with that kit in chrome! It is heavy duty stuff and apart from lenses like the pre war Biogon 35f2.8, the collapsible Elmar 90f4 and the Summicron DR 50f2 - I dont think anyone could afford to build to that level of quality today.

 

[wjlapier]

Thanx Tom. It's the one at Popflash. 2751239. I'm about to call about it. Is there a problem with this one's hood? How does this lens compare to the chrome, or is it just different color? Weight same as the chrome ones? The pictures don't give me an idea of it's actual size--~ how long in inches would you say these are? Finally, does price seem good? I checked kevinscameras and of course prices are all over the place, so it was hard for me to get an idea, and I know his prices are high.

Raid, I envy you. I really appreciate high quality mechanical stuff and my M3 and DR 'cron are right up there on top.

Bill

 

[ferider]

Hello Roland,

The serial number is in the high 2 millions. Not sure about filter size.

Hi Bill,

if it's above 2.8 Mio, it's probably an early 90/2 v3 (E49). Same version as I have (mine is a little younger and E55). A really wonderful lens, and quite compact, too. Check the flickr M-mount group, there are lots of examples (including some of mine). Quite high contrast, and very sharp 2.8 and above. You need a well adjusted Leica for this, DOF at min. focus is thin. At the same time, it gets you more enlargement than for example a DR Summicron at closest focus with eyes.

Enjoy,

Roland.

 

[ferider]

Oops, just read your last post. That makes it a v2. Haven't used that one (only had v1 and v3).

Roland.

 

[Al Kaplan]

The head of the first version 'cron comes off and can be used on a short focusing mount with the Visoflex II and III, or on an SLR with an adapter. The most compact and one of the sharpest lenses in this class is the 85mm f/2 Nikkor in Leica thread mount. It'll hold its own against all but tha latest model 90 'cron and it was made in both black and chrome. They've been out of production since the early seventies and prices are starting to climb.

 

[wjlapier]

Oops, just read your last post. That makes it a v2. Haven't used that one (only had v1 and v3).

Roland.

Popflash.photo has it as a ver I. All these lens versions drive me crazy 🙂

 

[ferider]

Popflash.photo has it as a ver I. All these lens versions drive me crazy 🙂

Yeah, it's a bit of a mess, depending on which source you use (Lager, Sartorius, etc). I typically use this one from Dan (and it matches with our flickr group):

http://www.antiquecameras.net/leicamlenses.html

Cheers,

Roland.

 

[raid]

Raid, I envy you. I really appreciate high quality mechanical stuff and my M3 and DR 'cron are right up there on top.

Bill

Bill,
No need to envy me; just get the same set. 😀

 

[raid]

Raid - you never need to take up a gym membership with that kit in chrome! It is heavy duty stuff and apart from lenses like the pre war Biogon 35f2.8, the collapsible Elmar 90f4 and the Summicron DR 50f2 - I dont think anyone could afford to build to that level of quality today.

Tom,
You gave me the purr-fect excuse to give my wife from now on! I NEED such lenses to stay relatively non-unfit [I cannot use the term fit] without going to the gym. Who needs a gym! Get Leica lenses in chrome.

 

[wjlapier]

OK, so maybe one last question. If I were to track down a chrome version to match my 50/2 DR, what vintage should I be looking for? What are some of the pitfalls of purchasing a used chrome 90/2 summicron should I be aware of beyond the usual stuff?

Thanx again.

Raid, you might need to show a pic of that trinity for my reference 😉

 

[Al Kaplan]

That first version is something you do not want to drop on your toe!

 

[raid]

Raid, you might need to show a pic of that trinity for my reference 😉

I can do this soon. No problem.

 

[Tom A]

That is a late version of the 1st generation M mount 90's. Big lens, but with a nice image quality to it. All of these "generations' are OK, the one succeeding this one is the most lack-lustre of them.
One way of handling the Big Bertha (the version at Pop-Flash) is to make a small grip and screw it in to the tripod mount. Just a wooden handle and a 1/4"' 20tpi bolt. It makes it easier to handle. Great portrait lens with nice center sharpness and "drop-pff" in the corners. Decently priced too. Go for it.
Tom

 

[Peter Klein]

I have the early-80s 90/2 Summicron (49mm filter thread) with the hood that Tom hates because it slides over the aperture ring. For some reason the hood doesn't bother me. I really like the lens because I have long fingers, and the focus ring is a little farther back than on the later model. I mostly use it in the theater and concert hall, and use a light little CV 90/3.5 for outdoors. But on one trip, I travelled with the Summicron, and was stunned by how good it is at all apertures. Maybe I got a good one, but I'm very happy with it

I once shot some test slides on a firm support with both my 90 'Cron and a chrome Nikkor 85/2. The Summicron is a bit better wide open overall, and significantly better getting towards the edges of the frame at all stops. The Nikkor is a bit better at f/4 (it peaks early). The Nikkor does have very harsh double-line bokeh at wide stops. The main reason why I sold it in favor of the Summicron was that it was very, very heavy, so I didn't ever want to carry it around. The black Nikkor does not have the weight issue, but it will cost you as much as many used Summicrons these days

I once had a very good Jupiter-9, but it only focused properly at 8 feet and beyond. The Nikkor was of similar character, but contrastier. I also tried two other J-9s that were terrible.

 

[SolaresLarrave]

WJLapier, go for it... and you'll get some muscles! I used to have one, and sold it to Brett, a fellow RFF when I got myself the third version.

This one takes a 48mm filter (a bit hard to find some times), and if I had figured out what Tom said about making a small hand grip for it, I would have kept it.

On second thought... I quickly got tired of schlepping it about. It is a heavy thing! 😱 In fact, mine was just like the one you intend to buy (BTW, the price is very good).

If I were in search of a 90mm lens... I'd take this one. The black chrome is very durable and the lens is so well built you can use it in case of an attack... and the other party may go to the ICU. I dropped mine once... and nothing happened to it! These things are tough...