Are Leica used prices at an all-time low?

J

jbrubaker

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Hi - I've checking here and Ebay to see what my Leica M7 .58 and 35mm Summilux might be worth. It seems that many go unsold. Is this a really bad time to sell Leica film gear? I lost my job in February, and I really need some cash right now, but I don't want to give away gear that I really like. What do you all think? Thanks ---john.
 
jbrubaker said:
I really need some cash right now.
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I think you pretty much hit the nail on the head right there. With the economy like it is, it stands to reason that there will be some downward pressure on prices. That makes our current climate more of a buyer's market - with less demand for higher end gear.
I can't imagine that changing until the economy improves.
 
There is also a saturation point in the market. We've had a big uptick over the last decade - thanks to Cosina - in interest in RF's. But just look at the pattern on this board over the last few years. Over time, many of the regulars here have bought and sold a whole lot of different RF gear and have now settled on specific cameras and lenses. My guess is that the pattern probably holds elsewhere, as well. I don't think there is an unlimited market for this kind of gear, so eventually it had to peak...and then decline.

I think the recession accelerated the process, though.
 
Here's a data point - I bought my black M6 and 50mm 'cron all in the last two weeks:

Black M6 - made in 1997, fantastic condition - only one small mark on the top plate was only visible after I gave the camera a good cleaning. The protective film is still on the base plate. $1050 out-the-door from the RFF classifieds.

50mm Summicron - current generation, very late serial number. In mint-minus condition with original box, papers, caps and lens pouch. $623 out-the-door from Ebay.

I can't say for certain, but I think I would have paid a lot more 18 months ago.
 
For the Leica stuff I look @, I think prices have actually dropped less than what I would have expected w/the current economy & continuing decline of film photography. Leica prices certainly have not declined as much as those for medium format gear of equivalent quality (Hassie, Rolleiflex, etc.), the market for which has been hit even harder by the full-frame digital onslaught than the Leica/classic 35mm RF world.
 
jbrubaker said:
Hi - I've checking here and Ebay to see what my Leica M7 .58 and 35mm Summilux might be worth. It seems that many go unsold. Is this a really bad time to sell Leica film gear? I lost my job in February, and I really need some cash right now, but I don't want to give away gear that I really like. What do you all think? Thanks ---john.
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Yes, prices are down on everything, especially non-essentials like second hand goods. With unemployment over 8% (in US) and many millions more at work with their fingers crossed praying a pink slip won't accompany their paychecks on Friday, the pool of possible buyers has shrunk as many people put off buying just about everything.

If an item is priced fairly here on the classifieds, it will still sell. If it's priced a bit low and people see it as a "deal", it'll sell in 20 minutes. The problem with the unsold gear you see is due to sellers asking unreasonable prices, probably trying to at least break even on a sale of an item they may have purchased two years ago, which may be unrealistic in this economy. If you see an ad with zero comments under it, it's because the item is priced too high, and we are prohibited from criticizing someone's ad here at RFF, and that's why you only see "Wow, great price" comments on some ads and zero comments on another.
 
A couple of years ago I sold a black M6ttl 0.58 for £550 - it did have extensive scuffing around the top plate but was otherwise perfectly sound. I think it would fetch more than that in today's market. It sold at about £25 more than I had paid for it a while beforehand.

I also see M2's going for around the £450 mark quite often, which is more than I paid for mine about a 18 months ago, so I'm not altogether convinced it's doom and gloom.

Perhaps the OP should place them for sale with a suitable reserve, or else enquire about a commission sale with a reputable dealer - that should provide the evidence needed at this curious time.
 
John,
A friend has dropped many prices on his web page. I think there is a bottom and we are close to it. But when you see user M8's going for close to $2K, it makes you wonder.

My local shop, when they have time, will check all the usual places before they set a price.

All, when they feel the need to move something, will drop prices.

I have an M7, and think it is a great camera.

Prices remain better for the U.S. seller abroad, but you have to be very careful.

Not simple times. I would contact the guy in the thread looking for a Leica for his sister. He says M6, but she might prefer AE, besides, you have both with the M7, and carry spare batteries.

There are lots of places to compare prices.

Regards, John
 
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Well there are several different things both pushing prices lower and keeping them from collapsing.


Putting downward pressure on prices:
  1. Economy, obviously. People who may have gotten laid off are selling excess gear. Even people who haven't gotten laid off are looking through their gear, saying, "Do I really need this?"
  2. Cosina has added volume to the market. How many 35mm lenses does one need?
  3. Cosina's prices on some items are set the prices on the used Leica market. If I can buy a 35/2.5 coloar skopar for $230, how much am I going to pay for a 35/3.5 Summaron? (if I am interested in using, not collecting).
Supporting Prices:
  • There are probably more rangefinder shooters today than there were in 1999. It seems that people returning to the film world, especially photo enthusiasts, are trending to rangefinders. Used Leica prices are down 20% on average, but it hasn't collapsed like the film SLR market. A 70s era professional SLR (Nikon F2, Canon A-1, Olympus OM-1) will fetch about $75. A Leica IIIC that is 30 years older still goes for $200+. I'm sure this wasn't the case in 1999.
  • Collectors and value buyers. There are people who will buy while the market is low. I picked up the Tele-Elmar in user condition for $75.
  • Supply Shrinkage: Cameras get old, lost, or become broken.
  • GAS. I think hobbyists today seem to have more gear per person than they did back in the day. I think many photo hobbyists were satisfied with a one body, 3 lens kit back in the day (the 50s). The same does not appear to be true today.
Available Alternatives

  • Prices are going to be determined by alternatives, like the alternative to buying a 35/3.5 Summaron is getting a new color-skopar (among others).
  • An M6 is essentially an M4-P with an internal meter. A VCII meter is $175. An M6 is going to sell for the M4-P price + $175 + convenience value of having an internal meter, which is currently about $200-$300.
 
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chris00nj said:
Well there are several different things both pushing prices lower and keeping them from collapsing.

Used Leica prices are down 20% on average, but it hasn't collapsed like the film SLR market. A 70s era professional SLR (Nikon F2, Canon A-1, Olympus OM-1) will fetch about $75.
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Yeah. Wonderful isn't it? Ask me how many I bought the last few years.
 
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Well, I called Igor, and he told me a lot of the Leica prices are firming up, then he sold me another Bessa with the 40mm he picked up in Boston. This forum is getting expensive. ;-)

Meanwhile, in all the confusion, it may be time to buy and run.

Regards, John
 
Yeah I think prices are pretty low. Not only for all the reasons listed above, but the dollar gained some strength against pound and euro, and all the sudden new prices for a lot of this stuff dropped from $3500 to close to $2000 if you were willing to buy overseas. I think that made an impact too.
 
There's not much "convenience value" to a built in meter when the entire camera has to be in the shop because the meter is kaput, and Quality Light Metric won't touch a built in meter.

I doubt that the bottom will drop out of Leica prices. The price of user M2 bodies seems to hang in there as a percentage of the price of new Leica models. New goes up, old goes up. I think that it's safe to say that most Leica photographers can as easily fork over $1,000 as $500 for a camera without leaving off the jelly on the kids' peanut butter sandwiches. As for film SLR's, photography is a very popular course at schools these days and they usually require the students to use a manual film SLR, and while there must be a few million out there they're not easy to find anymore. The local drugstore one-hour lab doesn't buy, sell, and trade cameras and that's about the only "camera store" that most people know these days. That should hold the price steady on used Pentax, Minolta, Olympus, etc. cameras in the $50 to $75 range for awhile, and prices should creep up from there. Considering what the Pentax Spotmatic or Minolta SRT-101 sold for forty years ago a new one today would have to sell in the $1,000 range.
 
Looking at various Leicas on eBay leads me to believe that prices have not fallen at all. Of course that does not mean people are buying.
 
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