denmark.yuzon
Streetographer
I've been looking at HCB's pics.. been wondering what film he used.. anyway, ive been using Fujifilm Neopan 400 as my main film.. but, i find it too "modern" if thats the correct term.. im looking for a film that is readily available and at the same time, has that "HCB" look and feel to it.. something that has old emulsions that will give me rich grey tones rather than contrasty black and whites... hope you guys could help out..
one more thing.. i send my films to a local lab.. since i dont have the gears, technical know how of processing my own black and whites.. can a C-41 black and white film be as good as the traditional process black and white films?
one more thing.. i send my films to a local lab.. since i dont have the gears, technical know how of processing my own black and whites.. can a C-41 black and white film be as good as the traditional process black and white films?
David William White
Well-known
That 'look' might have more to do with masterful printing than the film. You can lower the contrast and use papers with long tonal ranges.
Chromogenic black and white films are certainly just as good as others, just not as easy to do at home.
Chromogenic black and white films are certainly just as good as others, just not as easy to do at home.
mcgrattan
Well-known
Neopan 400 doesn't have to have a modern look. I get quite smooth tones from it using a fine-grain developer like Aculux.
I primarily using it in 120 format, but this should illustrate it:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mcg_photo/sets/72157616902164045/ [a full roll of 120, in Aculux]
I primarily using it in 120 format, but this should illustrate it:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mcg_photo/sets/72157616902164045/ [a full roll of 120, in Aculux]
denmark.yuzon
Streetographer
wow those are very nice pictures you got there mate! thats what i want.. very rich grey tones!! i love it man..
the only problem is that.. i dont develop my own films. i just send it to a local lab. and another problem is that, there are only three reputable labs that process black and whites traditionally. so i have no control of the development and processing of my films.. what im aiming for is a certain kind of film, that can be developed in the most common developers and fixers around.. but still give me that rich grey tones that i want..
Benjamin Marks
Veteran
This is only partially a solution, as you don't process your own stuff, but if you search Tom Abrahamsson's stuff on Flickr and look at his Double-X or XX tags (http://www.flickr.com/photos/rapidwinder/tags/doublex/), you should be able to seen his experiments with this Kodak motion picture film stock. It has a very nice mid-tone response the way he has developed his and it may be what you are looking for.
Ben Marks
Ben Marks
Farace
Established
I'll start out with the caveat that I'm inexperienced and maybe misguided in this regard but I'll offer my thoughts and you can do what you will with them. I've always admired the look of older film. No doubt much of the look lies in the skill of a photographer like Berenice Abbott or Man Ray, but I also think that the (by our standards) very slow film that was the only thing then available as well as the larger formats lent a lot to it. Besides its strengths (like very fine grain), its limitations would have forced it to be used differently than a modern high-speed film. Toward that end, I've ordered (but haven't yet shot) some Adox in 25 and 50 ASA from Freestyle (albeit in 35mm). Hopefully I can do it some justice.
venchka
Veteran
Efke, Foma, Adox, Arista.EDU Ultra (Freestyle re-label of Foma), Plus-X. All good. All long scale in the right developers. Your lab is probably doing more harm than good. You should start developing your own film. It's totally easy. Cheap. Gives you full control.
Tom A
RFF Sponsor
Most of HCB's stuff was shot with relatively slow films. Agfa,Ferrania, Kodak - and at that time 40 asa was considered "fast".
The difference in the look has more to do with the printing. HCB's print tend to favor mid-tones and if you see the "Decisive Moment" you will notice the mid tone bias. The images are somewhat "flat" - but with tons of information in the mid range.
The Kodak XX moviestock has a similar look to it with a softer working developer (D76/D23) and as it was evolved from the old Super XX it makes sense.
You can achieve the same look on your negatives by a/doing it yourself and b/using "soft" developers, mainly Metol/Hydroquinone type.
Lab processed film is usually not satisfactory. They have to contend with multiple films and tend to process for a common contrast range - most likely higher than you (or I) prefer.
The C41 chromogenic films are OK in this respect. Flatter contrast and very fine "grain" - but difficult to print (usually requires much higher contrast filtration in the enlarger). However, they scan well and contrast can be manipulated in the scanning process.
The difference in the look has more to do with the printing. HCB's print tend to favor mid-tones and if you see the "Decisive Moment" you will notice the mid tone bias. The images are somewhat "flat" - but with tons of information in the mid range.
The Kodak XX moviestock has a similar look to it with a softer working developer (D76/D23) and as it was evolved from the old Super XX it makes sense.
You can achieve the same look on your negatives by a/doing it yourself and b/using "soft" developers, mainly Metol/Hydroquinone type.
Lab processed film is usually not satisfactory. They have to contend with multiple films and tend to process for a common contrast range - most likely higher than you (or I) prefer.
The C41 chromogenic films are OK in this respect. Flatter contrast and very fine "grain" - but difficult to print (usually requires much higher contrast filtration in the enlarger). However, they scan well and contrast can be manipulated in the scanning process.
denmark.yuzon
Streetographer
yes, i guess i should start developing my own films.. its just that, time and money always gets in the way.. but it would the best solution to my problem.. at least i can control the contrast and other stuff...
denmark.yuzon
Streetographer
yeah, HCB's work in the "Decisive Moment".. that kind of rich grey tones is what i want.. i see that the greatest factor for giving that kind of photo is the printing... some of the developers you mentioned is not available here.. the most common chemicals here is Kodak D76.. ilfords products are available but very expensive.. and the developing tanks.. costs an arm and a leg..
oh, ive seen some chromogenic C41 films, they are ok to me.. i guess i have to adjust some settings to get my desired output..
and oh, does old emulsion films like Lucky and Agfa APX can give me a somewhat satisfactorily results?
denmark.yuzon
Streetographer
another noob question.. does a high speed film like one rated at 400 ISO, gives off more contrast than a low speed film rated or a medium speed film rated at 50 to 125 ISO , or even 200 ISO respectively?
mgd711
Medium Format Baby!!
If photography is your passion and you really want that look then you have no other choice than to develop your own film. Through experimentation you will achieve what you want.
denmark.yuzon
Streetographer
i guess it is really the time to develop my own films.. in the past, back when i was starting, all my films go to a pro lab to have it processed and scanned.. but later on, i cant justify the cost of it..
mgd711
Medium Format Baby!!
The 3 lab's in the Philippines are hardly Pro labs by western standards. One of them is operated as a hobby business by its wealthy owner. A very nice guy but he doesn't care about his customers, plus all B&W developing is done in a rotary processor.
Its time you got friendly with the people who have darkrooms, chemicals and knowledge. You can't expect to produce results like HCB by just buying a particular film, there is a lot more to it than just that.
Its time you got friendly with the people who have darkrooms, chemicals and knowledge. You can't expect to produce results like HCB by just buying a particular film, there is a lot more to it than just that.
denmark.yuzon
Streetographer
hehehe.. hi, mike.. thanks! yeah, after a lot of research lately.. i wont get what i want from those labs.. i guess i really need to start developing already and stop wasting money on results i dont like at all..
Ronald_H
Don't call me Ron
Home development is desperately easy, and the best way to learn B/W photography. Your first attempt will in all probability already be quite usable and it only gets better from there.
At first I was intimidated simply because I knew NOTHING about it. What kind of bottles do I keep my chemicals in? How long do they keep? What is stop bath for? How do I load film onto reels without a darkroom? You get the idea.
Anyway, after a year of experimenting I learned SO much and also learned there is so much more to learn! I now develop for scanning, but maybe I'll try conventional printing as well one day.
Just try it, stick to a film like HP5+ or Tri-X, or maybe FP4+ and experiment. You'll be amazed what can be done, espcially if you also take the digital post processing steps into account.
At first I was intimidated simply because I knew NOTHING about it. What kind of bottles do I keep my chemicals in? How long do they keep? What is stop bath for? How do I load film onto reels without a darkroom? You get the idea.
Anyway, after a year of experimenting I learned SO much and also learned there is so much more to learn! I now develop for scanning, but maybe I'll try conventional printing as well one day.
Just try it, stick to a film like HP5+ or Tri-X, or maybe FP4+ and experiment. You'll be amazed what can be done, espcially if you also take the digital post processing steps into account.
Al Kaplan
Veteran
There's more to it than just finding the magic film/developer combination. The lenses he used were single-coated and not as highly corrected or as sharp as what we have available today.