chris00nj
Young Luddite
Very clever!
Spider67
Well-known
......and I read an article where a Soviet tank commander had quite fond memories of his Sherman.
brachal
Refrigerated User
Thank you. I was going to compare the Leica IIIc with the T-34, but the T-34 inevitably loses because of its harsh, unpleasant bokeh.
dee
Well-known
hmmm - so why are people paying real money for those plastic Holgas ?
I will tell you which I would prefer anyday - a Kiev 4 may not have the quality , but it's got STYLE and HISTORY .. my 1951 Kiev 2 may even have a touch of quality !
I just love 'em as toys anyway !
I will tell you which I would prefer anyday - a Kiev 4 may not have the quality , but it's got STYLE and HISTORY .. my 1951 Kiev 2 may even have a touch of quality !
I just love 'em as toys anyway !
reagan
hey, they're only Zorkis
So one man’s cheap junk is another man’s cheap treasure.
I bought my first Zorki in 2005 followed by several others in rapid succession. I realized early on that the older models were more desirable to me, my “youngest” Zorki being a half-century old ’59 Zorki.5. The 3, 3M & older 4s had engraved numbers and logos instead of painted on, most of the VF & RF windows had raised embossed framing and once cleaned up they just seemed to me to work smoother than the more mass produced Zorki.4.
At first I enjoyed the cleaning ‘n tinkering, but life has gotten busier and my tiny tools haven’t been used in awhile now. Nevertheless, after knocking around with them for a few years, I still enjoy them enough that I’ll probably send them off and have them worked on by Fedka or somebody when the time comes for some refurbishing. Mine are worth it to me.
True, over time I’ve read post after post, tales of woe from the unfortunates who bought an FSU and waited weeks for it’s arrival only to pull from the brown paper and yak hair string a camera-turned-paperweight … and that is regrettable. But those on my shelf have worked out well, so I’ll have to mark my ballot, "Cheap Treasure" ... and just keep on crankin’ the knob and takin’ the shots.
I bought my first Zorki in 2005 followed by several others in rapid succession. I realized early on that the older models were more desirable to me, my “youngest” Zorki being a half-century old ’59 Zorki.5. The 3, 3M & older 4s had engraved numbers and logos instead of painted on, most of the VF & RF windows had raised embossed framing and once cleaned up they just seemed to me to work smoother than the more mass produced Zorki.4.
At first I enjoyed the cleaning ‘n tinkering, but life has gotten busier and my tiny tools haven’t been used in awhile now. Nevertheless, after knocking around with them for a few years, I still enjoy them enough that I’ll probably send them off and have them worked on by Fedka or somebody when the time comes for some refurbishing. Mine are worth it to me.
True, over time I’ve read post after post, tales of woe from the unfortunates who bought an FSU and waited weeks for it’s arrival only to pull from the brown paper and yak hair string a camera-turned-paperweight … and that is regrettable. But those on my shelf have worked out well, so I’ll have to mark my ballot, "Cheap Treasure" ... and just keep on crankin’ the knob and takin’ the shots.
David Hughes
David Hughes
Trouble is a lot of repair people only see broken cameras and the familiar ones are easier to repair. Equally the rare ones are new to them and so they don't know what to do and all the little things needed. And has anyone ever seen a repair manual published by the makers, in English, for some of these cameras we have been running down? Or can name the local agent for parts?
You'd have the same problem with a lot of other items if you imported something privately and it was unknown in your country.
As for the cameras, I know only about the feel of the outside bits but the prints I get tell me how good the things are. And the repairs don't have that little Leica factor built in. Try asking for FED 1 overhaul price and a Leica II overhaul price a few days apart to see what I mean.
Then there's the ebay factor...
One other point and I'll go out of rant mode, how many of us have experience of any of these FSU cameras when they were brand new?
'nuff said?
Regards, ,David
You'd have the same problem with a lot of other items if you imported something privately and it was unknown in your country.
As for the cameras, I know only about the feel of the outside bits but the prints I get tell me how good the things are. And the repairs don't have that little Leica factor built in. Try asking for FED 1 overhaul price and a Leica II overhaul price a few days apart to see what I mean.
Then there's the ebay factor...
One other point and I'll go out of rant mode, how many of us have experience of any of these FSU cameras when they were brand new?
'nuff said?
Regards, ,David
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Roger Hicks
Veteran
Dear David,
Um...
Some of us.
And they were pretty damn' patchy then. I don't go back further than the 60s, and the 50s were almost certainly better, even after allowing for the nostalgia factor. But even in the 50s, these designs were 15-30 years out of date, which ain't good, even if the camera or lens was perfectly assembled, and not all were. By the 60s, even fewer were.
Tashi delek,
Roger
brachal
Refrigerated User
I've had 3 "new in box" Fed-5's. I'm still fond of them, but they were all pretty rough, and none of them worked for more than 6 months without developing some kind of problem.
I would take a CLA'd Fed-2 over a New, Old Stock Fed-5 any day.
gb hill
Veteran
Leica owners brag about how great Leica's are but guess what? At some point they will need a CLA or repair & will have to fork out hundreds of dollars because it's a Leica. You will never have to worry about that with a FSU camera. Part of the uniqueness of owning a commie camera is the pride in taking it apart & cleaning/repairing it yourself. Something most Leica owners don't understand...& thats the bottom line so tell the camera shop owner to jump in the lake!!
Spider67
Well-known
Originally Posted by David Hughes 
One other point and I'll go out of rant mode, how many of us have experience of any of these FSU cameras when they were brand new?
Well I got a Kiev 4am new from the shop in Bulgaria in 1980....and had to give it to a repairman right away....but stilll I was interested in getting one that worked.
One other point and I'll go out of rant mode, how many of us have experience of any of these FSU cameras when they were brand new?
Well I got a Kiev 4am new from the shop in Bulgaria in 1980....and had to give it to a repairman right away....but stilll I was interested in getting one that worked.
mooge
Well-known
Leica owners brag about how great Leica's are but guess what? At some point they will need a CLA or repair & will have to fork out hundreds of dollars because it's a Leica. You will never have to worry about that with a FSU camera. Part of the uniqueness of owning a commie camera is the pride in taking it apart & cleaning/repairing it yourself. Something most Leica owners don't understand...& thats the bottom line so tell the camera shop owner to jump in the lake!!
'Uniqueness?' well, I CLA all my cameras... Canon FTb, Himatic 7s, ME super, Kiev 4... it's a 'classic camera' thing.
A Leica is a DIY-able job too. they're not impossible to fix. ok, maybe that finder is...
David Hughes
David Hughes
Hi,
Well, I'm out of rant mode and will say that I must have been lucky with my cameras. FED and Zorki models 1, 2, 3 and 4. And mixed luck with Leicas; some unlucky (St'd, M2 and R5) and some lucky (II, IIIa, CL, C3 etc). And mixed luck with Olympus but in each case I've had around 2 dozen of the things over the years and dropped them and so on. And if I haven't dropped them, someone else may have...
Mostly, these days I see it as luck. The film cameras available are all going to be second-hand and you just don't know what's happened to them. But an overhaul will usually restore all of them to good condition and then I'd say that the FSU ones are no better or worse than the others. Only the M2 feels better in use and the other (hate to say this) are just old cameras taking good pictures with good, bad and plain weird points.
Regards, David
Well, I'm out of rant mode and will say that I must have been lucky with my cameras. FED and Zorki models 1, 2, 3 and 4. And mixed luck with Leicas; some unlucky (St'd, M2 and R5) and some lucky (II, IIIa, CL, C3 etc). And mixed luck with Olympus but in each case I've had around 2 dozen of the things over the years and dropped them and so on. And if I haven't dropped them, someone else may have...
Mostly, these days I see it as luck. The film cameras available are all going to be second-hand and you just don't know what's happened to them. But an overhaul will usually restore all of them to good condition and then I'd say that the FSU ones are no better or worse than the others. Only the M2 feels better in use and the other (hate to say this) are just old cameras taking good pictures with good, bad and plain weird points.
Regards, David
giovatony
Well-known
Actually the T34 was based on a rejected American design. It`s superiority was exaggerated and short lived .
Here`s one * borrowed* article that supports the above.
"The T-34 is often used as a symbol for Soviet resistance and German arrogance. As such, its actual performance and impact on the war is often overrated. Nevertheless, the appearance of the T34 definitely was an unpleasant surprise for the German commanders, as it could combat all 1942 German tanks effectively. It was faster, had better armament (50mm was the predominant calibre of German tanks guns) and better armour protection, due to the technical innovation of sloped armour.
However, direct tank to tank combat was a rather rare occurrence; the vast majority of losses suffered were from logistical and mechanical troubles (50% of Soviet tanks at the start of the German invasion), artillery and air strikes and (self-propelled) anti-tank guns. At the outset of the war, only about 10% of all Soviet tanks were T-34 variants, this number increased to 50-60% percent till mid-1943. By the time the T-34 had replaced older models and became available in greater numbers, new German tanks (including the improved German design based on the T-34, the Panzer-V 'Panther') outperformed it.
Still, the T-34 was an adequate and effective tank and played a big part in the defeat of the German invaders. "
David Hughes
David Hughes
There's a lot to be said for a simple design, or rather an engineering based design. I often envy the FSU guys who didn't have the marketing, accounts and legal people interfering at the design stage.
Better still, when things broke other engineers could repair it, sometimes sitting at the kitchen table. More sophisticated design's failures tend to be catastrophic, imo, : although things seem wonderful when working (and being used by someone who knows what they're doing).
Trouble is, a lot of people don't have that spot in their heads that makes mechanical things seem simple to them. So instead of seeing the obvious they crash around thinking any one can do a repair. A lot of them don't even allow for gravity working downwards when poking around inside things and think spray cans are the answer to most problems.
Regards, David
Better still, when things broke other engineers could repair it, sometimes sitting at the kitchen table. More sophisticated design's failures tend to be catastrophic, imo, : although things seem wonderful when working (and being used by someone who knows what they're doing).
Trouble is, a lot of people don't have that spot in their heads that makes mechanical things seem simple to them. So instead of seeing the obvious they crash around thinking any one can do a repair. A lot of them don't even allow for gravity working downwards when poking around inside things and think spray cans are the answer to most problems.
Regards, David