fidget
Lemon magnet
The folders that I regularly use at the moment are capable of producing surprisingly good images for their age and configuration.
One 6x6 3 element cam consistently turns out great images, whilst others frequently make as good or even better images but seem to be less predictable. (I include here my two Isolette II's with 3.5 Solinars, a 6x9 Ensign with Ensar 3 element lens and an Ensign with the Ross Express 4 element lens).
Aside from obvious considerations like setting the focus scale correctly (easy to mess up!) I suspect that there are a few things I can do to help maximise the image quality from these cams.
I try various tricks, tripods, cable release funky hand hold etc...some work very well but are a PIA.
What could you suggest to get the best from a folder?
Dave...
One 6x6 3 element cam consistently turns out great images, whilst others frequently make as good or even better images but seem to be less predictable. (I include here my two Isolette II's with 3.5 Solinars, a 6x9 Ensign with Ensar 3 element lens and an Ensign with the Ross Express 4 element lens).
Aside from obvious considerations like setting the focus scale correctly (easy to mess up!) I suspect that there are a few things I can do to help maximise the image quality from these cams.
I try various tricks, tripods, cable release funky hand hold etc...some work very well but are a PIA.
What could you suggest to get the best from a folder?
Dave...
Sparrow
Veteran
probably not what you are after but, a big ridded tripod, and a very flexible cable release would be my first move
projectbluebird
Film Abuser
A CLA might be in order, if you can find someone who will/can do one.
I've got an Agfa Record III that was serviced by Certo6. Its quite a sharp little 6x9. Though the compur-rapid shutter tends to slow down when it gets really cold, that's not usually a problem.
I've got an Agfa Record III that was serviced by Certo6. Its quite a sharp little 6x9. Though the compur-rapid shutter tends to slow down when it gets really cold, that's not usually a problem.
fidget
Lemon magnet
I try to use a tripod (only a lightweight version) when I can. Often I use a monopod. This gives a little more stability than just hand holding.
The cams I use have been CLA'd although they've not had the shutters stripped, just a flush wash. They seem to operate smoothly enough at all speeds.
I suspect that some of the better quality shots from my Isolettes are from when I use a shutter speed of 100th rather than the top speed of 300th.
Remembering the rat-trap like spring tension at the top speed on my Moskva 5, I wondered if this could create enough shudder or movement to spoil some shots.
By coincidence, the top speed (300th) on my Ensign became faulty, looking not a lot different to 100th. This is working well at the moment and I am reluctant to take it apart to try to fix. (I will practice on another Epsilon shutter first). The hit rate of quality of my images from this camera has improved. I'm thinking that this may be due to not using the top speed, although as a left hand shutter button camera, I have adopted a funky hand hold for it which feels very stable and may have helped hand held shots.
Anyone else experienced image improving method?
Dave..
Reminds me.....Moskva 5 adventure kit for sale....
The cams I use have been CLA'd although they've not had the shutters stripped, just a flush wash. They seem to operate smoothly enough at all speeds.
I suspect that some of the better quality shots from my Isolettes are from when I use a shutter speed of 100th rather than the top speed of 300th.
Remembering the rat-trap like spring tension at the top speed on my Moskva 5, I wondered if this could create enough shudder or movement to spoil some shots.
By coincidence, the top speed (300th) on my Ensign became faulty, looking not a lot different to 100th. This is working well at the moment and I am reluctant to take it apart to try to fix. (I will practice on another Epsilon shutter first). The hit rate of quality of my images from this camera has improved. I'm thinking that this may be due to not using the top speed, although as a left hand shutter button camera, I have adopted a funky hand hold for it which feels very stable and may have helped hand held shots.
Anyone else experienced image improving method?
Dave..
Reminds me.....Moskva 5 adventure kit for sale....
Last edited:
Wimpler
Established
1. I always seem to use ISO 400 in my folders. This allows me to use the camera in both very bright and rather dim situations. Grain isn't as much of an issue in medium format.
2. I always take a small light tight case to put the used 120 rollfilm into. I've had problems with light leaking onto film, from the edges, and this is the easiest way to make sure that doesn't happen.
3. Practice pushing the shutter release while avoiding any camera movement.
4. While lens hoods and filters are a pain in the ass to use in some cases, in others they can be really necessary. When I need to be fast or when I forgot the lens shade I try to shade the lens with my free hand if needed.
5. When using a new camera, or when having unexpected results: Check the front standard for alignment and rigidity, check bellows for light leaks.
6. When advancing film and looking at the numbers through the red window, make sure to shade the camera from sunlight.
2. I always take a small light tight case to put the used 120 rollfilm into. I've had problems with light leaking onto film, from the edges, and this is the easiest way to make sure that doesn't happen.
3. Practice pushing the shutter release while avoiding any camera movement.
4. While lens hoods and filters are a pain in the ass to use in some cases, in others they can be really necessary. When I need to be fast or when I forgot the lens shade I try to shade the lens with my free hand if needed.
5. When using a new camera, or when having unexpected results: Check the front standard for alignment and rigidity, check bellows for light leaks.
6. When advancing film and looking at the numbers through the red window, make sure to shade the camera from sunlight.
literiter
Well-known
I have a Super Ikonta C, which I use fairly often. I get consistent results with it but I've learned a few things.
Just to add to what has been mentioned already:
-Make sure you have a system whereby the camera is always opened before advancing the film. Opening a folder, the bellows can suck the film away from the pressure plate. Even just a tiny bit can affect focus and distort the image.
-Like Wimpler I use fast film, often XP-2 if the situation allows.
-Use a aperture like f8, f11, f16.
-Tripod is a real good idea.
Just to add to what has been mentioned already:
-Make sure you have a system whereby the camera is always opened before advancing the film. Opening a folder, the bellows can suck the film away from the pressure plate. Even just a tiny bit can affect focus and distort the image.
-Like Wimpler I use fast film, often XP-2 if the situation allows.
-Use a aperture like f8, f11, f16.
-Tripod is a real good idea.
fidget
Lemon magnet
Just thinking back to when some of my folders arrived, some had shutters which needed quite a push on the lever to operate. This would cause some problems in the flexing of the standards. The suggestion from Projectbuebird to make sure your cam has been CLA'd is a good one and probably easy to overlook if the shutter "looks" like it is working.
Sparrow
Veteran
I still use the cable release even if I’m hand-holding the camera, I seem to get a lot smoother release that way.
But realistically hand-holding a 90mm at 1/100 is a big ask for all those old linkages and clunky shutter releases
But realistically hand-holding a 90mm at 1/100 is a big ask for all those old linkages and clunky shutter releases
mgd711
Medium Format Baby!!
I never use the top speeds on my old folders and stick to ISO 400 film.
The only folder I've been disappointed with has been the Certo Six and that’s because of its funky focus lever, the others consistently produce excellent results. (All bought from Jurgen)
The only folder I've been disappointed with has been the Certo Six and that’s because of its funky focus lever, the others consistently produce excellent results. (All bought from Jurgen)
chippy
foo was here
Dave, i am not entirely sure i know exactly in what area is giving you problems, the build-mechanicals of the camera, something worn loose or bent etc, or settings i.e. best aperture, shutter and focusing or from a technical point of view or just usage methods? to show some examples might help i guess...the couple you posted in the show picture thread using the kewshaw both looked good! wouldnt mind seeing more of the moores lol, the swirly OOF area in the first is to be expected with that lens, some people go for that effect at times anyway
Assuming everything is working correctly with the camera, as a generalization one of the best ways to improve both quality and quantity of keepers is to become more familiar with just one camera, i find chopping and changing between different cameras mucks me up somewhat..if i stick with one camera for a while it becomes more intuitive to use which results in no wasted shots through simple mistakes and also allows you to find the sweet spots or weaknesses of the lens/aperture setting or focusing distance (more so with front cell focusing lenses)
camera shake and flare/contrast are others things that factor in often i think, hoods for flare and contrast obviously help a great deal. again familiarisation can help a long way with camera shake but also i notice some people dont realise that it takes a bit more effort to keep a folder steady at slower shutter speeds than it does small format (though i suspect you dont have that problem). folders even compared to more modern heavier MF cameras take a little more effort to keep steady because they are lighter and less dense than the later solid bodied MF cameras. not that it is hard to take a sharp/steady picture but it takes a little getting used to coming from another type camera
if everything is done up tight (shutter lens, front standard firm etc) i really dont think you 'should' be having problems when the shutter is used on higher speeds, its not something that i have noticed ever causing me a problem and i have shutters that have plenty of snap at 500 (full strength as new), not that i use the Ensigns
of course image quality does improve somewhat depending on the lens on the front and the quality, make and condition of the camera
Assuming everything is working correctly with the camera, as a generalization one of the best ways to improve both quality and quantity of keepers is to become more familiar with just one camera, i find chopping and changing between different cameras mucks me up somewhat..if i stick with one camera for a while it becomes more intuitive to use which results in no wasted shots through simple mistakes and also allows you to find the sweet spots or weaknesses of the lens/aperture setting or focusing distance (more so with front cell focusing lenses)
camera shake and flare/contrast are others things that factor in often i think, hoods for flare and contrast obviously help a great deal. again familiarisation can help a long way with camera shake but also i notice some people dont realise that it takes a bit more effort to keep a folder steady at slower shutter speeds than it does small format (though i suspect you dont have that problem). folders even compared to more modern heavier MF cameras take a little more effort to keep steady because they are lighter and less dense than the later solid bodied MF cameras. not that it is hard to take a sharp/steady picture but it takes a little getting used to coming from another type camera
if everything is done up tight (shutter lens, front standard firm etc) i really dont think you 'should' be having problems when the shutter is used on higher speeds, its not something that i have noticed ever causing me a problem and i have shutters that have plenty of snap at 500 (full strength as new), not that i use the Ensigns
of course image quality does improve somewhat depending on the lens on the front and the quality, make and condition of the camera
Paddy C
Unused film collector
One tip I read some time ago was related to 6x9 folders.
Basically, the notion was that these cameras have trouble maintaining film flatness resulting in soft images even at the image centre.
So it was suggested that you advance the film partially after an exposure and finish the advancing just before you take the next one. This way the film does not have time to slacken between exposures.
1. I don't know if this would apply to a 6x6
2. It can be a pain if you're trying to shoot quickly
3. There is the risk that you will forget to advance the frame (ooopps!)
4. I don't know if it really works
I use a Bessa II and get quite sharp exposures using this method. But I haven't experimented to compare.
Basically, the notion was that these cameras have trouble maintaining film flatness resulting in soft images even at the image centre.
So it was suggested that you advance the film partially after an exposure and finish the advancing just before you take the next one. This way the film does not have time to slacken between exposures.
1. I don't know if this would apply to a 6x6
2. It can be a pain if you're trying to shoot quickly
3. There is the risk that you will forget to advance the frame (ooopps!)
4. I don't know if it really works
I use a Bessa II and get quite sharp exposures using this method. But I haven't experimented to compare.
chippy
foo was here
Yeah it does work Paddy. i find it a good habit to always wind on a little after each shot, this makes the number disappear from the red window so there is no mistaking whether you have exposed the frame or not..then obviously just before taking the next shot you wind on until the number shows, this ensures the film is taught for the next frame....its a reasonably fast method, as fast as need be for a folder camera at any rate
fidget
Lemon magnet
Thanks all for some good ideas.
I have been having a good run on my folders lately. Mostly rubbishy test shots, but all helping me towards using them more in the future. The Isolettes are particularly easy to use, having a few minor features which makes their use a joy. It's just that some pics from these (or the main one in use, the other has no slow speeds and will be sold on when cleaned out).
One reason for my photographically improved situation is that 1: I tend to leave the 35mm kit at home and 2: I've cut down on the purchases and endless fix/test cycles that accompany them. I only have one or two in the process of fix/test and these can wait a while.
So, as you noted, getting used to one (or just a few) allows some element of exploration of their abilities. This is where I noted the variation in the sharpness (there! I said it!!) of the shots from some of them. Of all those I have, the Isolettes are the most rigid and easy to get right of them all, so unexpected loss of sharpness is a puzzle.
Some of the ideas here are good, I will try a new procedure when out shooting. Perhaps the variation is due more to my sloppy process than other factors.
Here's a shot from last year on the rocky beach in North Devon.
Remains of the SS Collier, ran aground in 1914 and was abandoned. Shows part of the donkey engine and keel.
It's not clear here, but the detail is quite surprising. A bit overly contrasty perhaps. Printed at 12x12 it is still sharp. I could do with more like this! (shots that is)
Dave...
I have been having a good run on my folders lately. Mostly rubbishy test shots, but all helping me towards using them more in the future. The Isolettes are particularly easy to use, having a few minor features which makes their use a joy. It's just that some pics from these (or the main one in use, the other has no slow speeds and will be sold on when cleaned out).
One reason for my photographically improved situation is that 1: I tend to leave the 35mm kit at home and 2: I've cut down on the purchases and endless fix/test cycles that accompany them. I only have one or two in the process of fix/test and these can wait a while.
So, as you noted, getting used to one (or just a few) allows some element of exploration of their abilities. This is where I noted the variation in the sharpness (there! I said it!!) of the shots from some of them. Of all those I have, the Isolettes are the most rigid and easy to get right of them all, so unexpected loss of sharpness is a puzzle.
Some of the ideas here are good, I will try a new procedure when out shooting. Perhaps the variation is due more to my sloppy process than other factors.
Here's a shot from last year on the rocky beach in North Devon.
Remains of the SS Collier, ran aground in 1914 and was abandoned. Shows part of the donkey engine and keel.
It's not clear here, but the detail is quite surprising. A bit overly contrasty perhaps. Printed at 12x12 it is still sharp. I could do with more like this! (shots that is)
Dave...
Last edited:
chippy
foo was here
disagree with this however, complete load of internet bungcum
this is one of those rumours that i think originated from cameras in the 20's and early thirties that has been repeated ever since so people think it is fact, in particular it started from cameras of that time that had poor or no pressure plates at all (usually low end cameras)...i have not had a problem with any 6x9 from the mid 30's onwards working correctly with a decent pressure plate installed and used correctly. given the DOF on a 6x9 there is sufficient room to allow for some film displacement without adverse effect.
even in large/r format cameras (that have less DOF) that are designed for plate glass film and adapted to take sheet film i find no problem and they are out .3mm -.5mm from the correct film plane before you even begin....the small amount that occurs in a 6x9 doesn't effect it IMO
Last edited:
test test test
FallisPhoto
Veteran
1. Advance the film just before you shoot, not just afterward.
2. Use a sturdy tripod and cable release.
3. Make sure the inside of the bellows is dyed a nice solid black and there are no shiny bits in there. No light leaks doesn't really need to be said, does it?
4. Repaint the pressure plate if needed. Same for all the rest of the film chamber. Don't forget the inside edge of the framing plate.
5. Make sure the leaf spring that keeps the supply spool tensioned hasn't been sprung.
6. Backsight and adjust all of your lenses, not just for infinity, but then again for 10 feet -- this goes double for Agfas.
8. Make sure the rangefinder is properly calibrated.
9. Make sure lenses have no grease, fingerprints or oil on them.
2. Use a sturdy tripod and cable release.
3. Make sure the inside of the bellows is dyed a nice solid black and there are no shiny bits in there. No light leaks doesn't really need to be said, does it?
4. Repaint the pressure plate if needed. Same for all the rest of the film chamber. Don't forget the inside edge of the framing plate.
5. Make sure the leaf spring that keeps the supply spool tensioned hasn't been sprung.
6. Backsight and adjust all of your lenses, not just for infinity, but then again for 10 feet -- this goes double for Agfas.
8. Make sure the rangefinder is properly calibrated.
9. Make sure lenses have no grease, fingerprints or oil on them.
Last edited:
fidget
Lemon magnet
Oh! I'd forgotten about that! And I was a recent contributor on a thread about that very subject, probably with FallisPhoto.....
Come to think about this, at least some of the pics that show loss of sharpness are infinity focussed whilst (from memory) most of my successful shots might be in the range from 8 to 15ft. Hmmmm.
FallisPhoto, could you just go through the process of setting up the focus again. I guess that it is more than say "set focus at 5 or 6 ft and all other distances will be right"...
Dave...
fidget
Lemon magnet
Here is a pic which I assume that I would have set the focus at infinity.
This is a crop of a 600dpi scan at full size. Seems Ok to me, perhaps a reduction in contrast of the far distance as may be expected?
Loch Moidart, very pretty indeed. At the sea end is a castle on an island!
(hand held)
Dave
This is a crop of a 600dpi scan at full size. Seems Ok to me, perhaps a reduction in contrast of the far distance as may be expected?
Loch Moidart, very pretty indeed. At the sea end is a castle on an island!
(hand held)
Dave
Last edited:
Sparrow
Veteran
Add a light-trap between the pressure plate and the red window? or is that me being paranoid?
fidget
Lemon magnet
Hey Stewart! This is something that seems to cause problems on some of my older 6x9. I make similar baffles for some of mine (My Moskva5 and Voigtlander RF really need them).
It also seems that Ilford print the frame numbers in feint print, almost a dot-matrix, on the FP4+ and HP5+ roll film. It's really quite difficult to see and helps if you move the window into a bright light to see better!!!!! Other film seems to have a more solid print. Neopan is very clear.
It also seems that Ilford print the frame numbers in feint print, almost a dot-matrix, on the FP4+ and HP5+ roll film. It's really quite difficult to see and helps if you move the window into a bright light to see better!!!!! Other film seems to have a more solid print. Neopan is very clear.