Leica LTM Leica IIIC - Fake of the day

Leica M39 screw mount bodies/lenses
Hay, this would make a great shooter. I'd be inhibited had I spent $ 3-4 thousand but not so much $ 2-3 hundred. Heck, you got a fully CLA'd camera, new vulcanite, & cool paint job that you don't have to worry knocking about...go take sum pics! ;-)

edit: P.S.
Don't think I'll ever have enough $$$ to buy a real grey camera that will sit on a shelf or in a cabinet!!!
 
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Almost $1,200 bid on this and it`s a fake..........wow!

If it was original as delivered Chrome Red Curtain w/ Summitar it would bring TOPS maybe
$700/$750, and someone`s bidding that high on just the "grey" paint, I guess some people must be pretty desperate for a Leica with grey paint.......

Just like anything else, patience in finding real gear, is the key, there`s enough REAL gear left out there, for a premium price, it`s always best to try to find it from the original owners/collections, or ex- WW2 Military personnel who can verify it`s originality.

Thankfully we have Leica Historians as Jim Lager and myself who reseach these era cameras and can smell a fake from miles off, I seem to have a "knack" for finding rare and interesting stuff from the "wartime" era, and when I get my Leica website up, I`ll have up a consultant service to give advice and tips for buying and selling the real stuff.

Tom
 
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>>Really sad, here`s two very interesting original delivered Leitz items, forever DESTROYED and their value is reduced to 0.

I don't agree, the value of this camera has not been reduced to zero... and I may have even paid a little more for this camera than I did for my otherwise nice, but common IIIc even knowing that it was a fake, especially if I felt the CLA was done well...
 
I guess in the end last month's buyer didn't cough up his US $ 1125 after all.
I wonder what it will go for now..
 
This is part of a collection that came from an American who was living in England, who had TOO MUCH TIME ON HIS HANDS!

He faked a slue of "fantasy" Leica`s and it seemed that quite a few people were "duped" by his fakes, like ~ All Black Collapsible Summicron in Screw Mount ~ 1946 "Stepper" IIIC painted in Grey with fake engravings for the DANA (German American Information Service) and also this Monstrosity.

This dealer had a good reputation up till they invested in this junk, really all they would had had to do was contact Leica or Jim Lager about this and they would have saved themselves a few thousand dollars (I`m sure they paid over $2k for this camera).

Grey cameras are getting rarer and rarer and harder to find in original condition, it`s all about serial numbers when you collect these and the only way to be 100% sure is to have a specialist pull the top plate and match numbers to the original Leitz dockets and verify where the camera was delivered to originally, even the Kriegsmarine cameras have a listing now, and we can be 90% SURE of each camera issued, only the Luftwaffe cameras also have that documentation.

I learned more about the Kriegsmarine cameras after the research that Jim Lager and I did on the 1942 camera that I once owned.

I personally don`t collect the WW2 cameras with German Military engravings, but I know about them, due to the other Grey cameras I do collect (the civilian issues and the postwar US Army issued Grey`s).

My advice to anyone who`s looking for something unique that`s painted Grey, contact me perosnally about it first, I will contact Jim Lager or Leica and find out about the camera for you, I would be more than happy to advise anyone who needs some help in making a fine investment, instead of a valuable mistake.

Tom

PS: I don`t mind doing this service for people who are interested in any Leica IIIC or IIIC K Grey or any Military engraved camera from WW2 (PRE 1945) ~ and I myself already have most of the records on the Postwar "stepper" cameras from June 1945 to May 1946. ~ a sort of "suviviors" list.
 
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Funny thing this because often museums, when putting something on display that has a new part in it, will paint only the new part grey or pink to show it's modern and not the genuine item.

Perhaps when we get our hands on a fake we should spray paint it pink as a warning to others and issue a list of known fakes somewhere. Has anyone a spare website they could go on?

Regards, David
 
murrayb53 said:
So what's with this guy?
The camera was just taken off auction.

Steve
Click to expand...

It still had the text from an earlier auction in it, saying his repair man vouched for authenticity of the engravings. Funny, considering the seller himself also had established that the whole camera was a fake.

That (Dutch) repair man isn't getting my business anymore, I'd rather send two Leicas across the puddle for service.

Someone is digging a very deep hole here to bury their reputation in, it seems. Too bad. If I were the seller I'd take a hammer to that camera, it must be jinxed, it spells trouble everywhere it goes.
 
They keep posting this and pulling the auction b/c it NEVER brings over $300!
(and I`m sure they have like over $2k wrapped up in this)

It`s a worthless piece of junk, If I were that guy, I`d dig a hole in the backyard and bury it, b/c it`s going to bury his camera business, I would`nt trust these people either anymore or anyone who was connected to that American in England where this stuff came from in the first place....

Tom
 
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CLE-RF said:
It still had the text from an earlier auction in it, saying his repair man vouched for authenticity of the engravings. Funny, considering the seller himself also had established that the whole camera was a fake.

That (Dutch) repair man isn't getting my business anymore, I'd rather send two Leicas across the puddle for service.

Someone is digging a very deep hole here to bury their reputation in, it seems. Too bad. If I were the seller I'd take a hammer to that camera, it must be jinxed, it spells trouble everywhere it goes.
Click to expand...

Will van Manen is a very good repairman. I severly doubt that he would agree to being quoted in an auction like this. I do expect him to be able to determine that it was a fake.
 
I also think the seller has a bit more in the camera than he is being offered. Odd though, everyone who is an avid bidder on eBay knows it's the last minute of the auction that separates the men from the boys......or the smart ones from the idiots.

This seller doesn't want to take any chances. He may give it a rest, then offer it at a Buy It Now.

I don't think this ones over yet.

Steve
 
Ronald_H said:
Will van Manen is a very good repairman. I severly doubt that he would agree to being quoted in an auction like this. I do expect him to be able to determine that it was a fake.
Click to expand...

I vouch for Will van Manen too. He has nothing to do with selling fake cameras. He's an honest and excellent repair man, but he's not an expert on nazi cameras. As was said in the ad, Will determined that the engraving was well-done. Not that it was original! I doubt he permitted the seller to quote him about this.
I don't know the seller, but I understand that Will CLAs many of his cameras before he ebays them. He has pretty nice stuff for sale usually. I think for this one he went one bridge too far. Stupid of course that he destroys his good name with trying to recoup what he paid for this apparent fake.
 
Greed and to good to be true!

Greed and to good to be true!

Dear Forumers and Tom,

I'm the seller of the FAKE, damned IIIC ! And yes I made a mistake and NO I didn't fake it, nor did my repairman.
Will is a good repairman and helped thousands of satisfied customers. His reputation shouldn't be torn down by this!
We made the wrong assumptions. Wishfull thinking. What's in the name! Plain stupid and I should've done more research.
I always had my doubts and one should have always.
There are even cameras Tom cannot be certain about.
And when Tom pointed out that grey paint was not used before #387xxx. It hit me. HARD! And I new this!
I put it up for auction it is my responsibility.

But, Tom: I think you also should've pointed out that I changed the advertisement right after I started believing you, and therefore was being honest and trustworthy. Or am I not allowed to say that?
I think it is wrong to question my reputation. Someone did me wrong! Why hang me out to dry? I corrected my mistake. It already cost me dearly.
I shared personal information with you and you just use it to point out that I'm not to be trusted. That hurts me personally!

Anyway, I will not sell the IIIC and will keep it as a reminder of greed. Mine and others.

The last time I took the camera off Ebay, because I realized that it probably will not sell for the prize I paid for it, I paid $ 1500,-.
It is better that this camera stays with me. And NO not to try to sell it for $$$ to someone as a real one!!

I bought it from a man in London. He told me that his father was an avid collector and he was selling his collection.
His father was a professional photographer and many of his items were bought in the US. Between the late 40's and 60's. But if this is all true I cannot confirm that.

I really hope that this will be read in the best possible way.
Yes, this I wrote to recover some of mine and Will's reputation. More Will’s than mine, because I cannot ask you to believe me. I know that the more I try it will only look bad and spread more doubts. I know and that is enough for me. What you do with it is your responsibility.

I will probably get a quite some responds to this. As I know forums are for 50% used to relieve ones frustrations.

Thank you Andrew.

Sincerely,
Wish.
 
I will still keep with my conviction that it`s a worthless camera, not really even good for parts now, b/c of that faked Grey paint, but it was nice of Wish to come here and post something about his personal feelings and his mistakes with the camera.

Hmm well Andrew, nothing has insulted my collection, I own what I own and it`s all original, but I`ve always made sure since I`ve had the chance to check every little detail, have Jim Lager and the Leica Factory to rely on, and also always ask to have cameras taken apart and inspected (if possible) with any camera I feel like investing in.

I have also offered my services to anyone who`s interested or who is considing buying any Leica made between 1940 and 46, I don`t want to see anyone, lose their money on a poor investment, even a dealer!

Cameras such as these "fantasy Leicas" are few and far between over the internet, but the fact that they get "called out" as quickly as they do, proves that there`s more honest people out there then dishonest ones in the hobby.....

Tom
 
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It's just a camera!
If someone doesn't like it and think it's fake then don't bid on it, it's very simple.
I think you guys are being harsh on the seller and of course he would like to recoup his purchasing mistake.
Leica Tom i'm very surprised that you think it is worthless!
The camera looks in good condition and it has been CLA'D by someone with a good reputation and being grey makes it stand out from the standard IIIC.
For a user camera it isn't worthless at all. For a collector it's worthless but thankfully most people aren't collectors.
I think the seller could find someone who would pay a good amount for this camera.
Obviously not for the same amount that he paid but i suspect he wouldn't have a problem getting around £500 for it.
 
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