MikeAUS
Well-known
Is this just a gimmick or does it really work. Is it needed at all?
Details/info here --> http://www.tiffen.com/displayproduct.html?tablename=domke&itemnum=711-12B
Details/info here --> http://www.tiffen.com/displayproduct.html?tablename=domke&itemnum=711-12B
MichaelHarris
Well-known
I have one but the airport made me remove the film out of it.
ItsReallyDarren
That's really me
Never used them before. But I would think that they work so well that the person operating the xray machines would either; A) crank up the power to see through the bag ultimately fogging/frying the film or, B) pull it aside for a hand inspection.
chingwa
Newbie
From my experience there is no need for that in carry-on's. Just back from an Europe trip, I used a usual plastic bag with no problems (the films were up to iso400).
MikeAUS
Well-known
Sounds like airport officials will be suspicious of these bags ...
Sounds like airport officials will be suspicious of these bags ...
Sounds like airport officials will be suspicious of these bags ...
There by rendering it useless? I think airports are so touchy these days that anything like this will be viewed with suspicion and may then subject the film to more invasive inspection than normal. Anyone have a similar experience?
ItsReallyDarren
That's really me
Every time I've flown I tell the airport security that I have film and would like to have it hand inspected. They have no problem with it and take me to a station where they proceed to use a pad to wipe down my film and place it in a machine. My guess is the machine detects for dangerous materials such as explosives.
Some airports (saw this one at O'Hare international in Chicago) have signs that tell passengers that they have the right to have their film inspected by hand if they do not want to have it go through a machine.
Some airports (saw this one at O'Hare international in Chicago) have signs that tell passengers that they have the right to have their film inspected by hand if they do not want to have it go through a machine.
JohnTF
Veteran
I have had a number of them, and the security people never asked me to open them, so I concluded that either they could see through them, or security sucks.
They cannot "crank" up the Xrays, but they can enhance what they get. In the old days you could look over the guy's shoulder, and I know the Xrays go through most stuff. I always tell them cameras are coming through just to help them intrepret what I have.
If they pull it out and give it a hand check, great, you win.
They should grant you a hand check regardless, as there is certainly a lot less film going through.
Had some really stupid experiences with the guys, like putting my film on the pizzas coming in to the concourse, which I had to chase down, opening every Kodak sealed foil packet, mistaking the film size with the speed, looking through the viewfinder of a Rangefinder to see if anything was hidden inside of the camera body, and my favorite, you can guess what they thought the 120 roll with red paper was.
Am afraid like most of us, their knowledge base is heavily tilted toward TV.
Just smile, and if you carry film, it does not hurt to ask for a hand inspection, in the US they have to grant it, unless they do not know the rules. No point in giving your film a dozen doses of xrays, especially in countries where they invented them.
If you feel lucky, just let it go any way they want it, you might make a stop over in Vegas as well.
My processor has pointed out only two rolls that seemed to be damaged somewhere during my 60+ trips across the pond.
You are also permitted one additional carry on if you are a photographer, if you find the web page and print it out.
I think the personnel changes a lot, and sometimes they just make rules up as they go. I also know that foil from chewing gum really seems to set off the metal detectors. 120 film in your pockets without the foil packets will not, so if you have a dozen or so rolls and big pockets, you might want to try that.
Regards, John
They cannot "crank" up the Xrays, but they can enhance what they get. In the old days you could look over the guy's shoulder, and I know the Xrays go through most stuff. I always tell them cameras are coming through just to help them intrepret what I have.
If they pull it out and give it a hand check, great, you win.
They should grant you a hand check regardless, as there is certainly a lot less film going through.
Had some really stupid experiences with the guys, like putting my film on the pizzas coming in to the concourse, which I had to chase down, opening every Kodak sealed foil packet, mistaking the film size with the speed, looking through the viewfinder of a Rangefinder to see if anything was hidden inside of the camera body, and my favorite, you can guess what they thought the 120 roll with red paper was.
Am afraid like most of us, their knowledge base is heavily tilted toward TV.
Just smile, and if you carry film, it does not hurt to ask for a hand inspection, in the US they have to grant it, unless they do not know the rules. No point in giving your film a dozen doses of xrays, especially in countries where they invented them.
If you feel lucky, just let it go any way they want it, you might make a stop over in Vegas as well.
My processor has pointed out only two rolls that seemed to be damaged somewhere during my 60+ trips across the pond.
You are also permitted one additional carry on if you are a photographer, if you find the web page and print it out.
I think the personnel changes a lot, and sometimes they just make rules up as they go. I also know that foil from chewing gum really seems to set off the metal detectors. 120 film in your pockets without the foil packets will not, so if you have a dozen or so rolls and big pockets, you might want to try that.
Regards, John
Chuck Albertson
Well-known
If they can't see what's in the bag on the scanner, the security people really aren't doing their jobs if they don't make you open it up for a look. In the US, you have a right to have your film inspected by hand, and you can generally get it. Elsewhere, they'll just pull your film out of the x-ray-proof pouch and run it through the scanner. (They don't have the ability to "crank up the x-ray" to see through the bag.)
I don't fret about this anymore. I carry film through airports all the time, sometimes through several scanners in a couple of days. It's been over 20 years since I've had even the high-ISO stuff fogged by x-rays. Just keep it out of checked luggage---they use different machines for those bags, and they will damage film. Most airlines warn you about that.
lic4
Well-known
might help with harmful rays when flying long hauls. i once had film flown to asia fog badly - 400ASA pushed to 800. I shoot mostly 100ASA, so i don't know if that was an isolated case.
sepiareverb
genius and moron
Well a 35mm film in the pocket certainly sets off the scanner. I had one in a cargo pocket that I couldn't feel. Folks behind me were not happy, but then they rarely are- I'm pathetic at getting through those checkpoints in a timely fashion.
wgerrard
Veteran
This question comes up every so often on various travel sites I sometimes frequent. The consensus there seems to be this:
1. Security will very probably take the film out of the bag. You're not supposed to hide things from them. Whether or not they hand scan the film or toss it back through the x-ray is another question.
2. TSA guidelines say travelers have a right to ask for film to be hand scanned. If you get a grumpy TSA officer or a busy airport, the answer may be "No."
3. The technology used to x-ray carry-on and checked baggage is different. Checked film will be fried. Film at 800 and below in carry-on should not be damaged at airports in the developed world, where the odds of running into faulty or miscalibrated equipment are very small. The odds of that happening in countries that can't afford to maintain or properly staff their equiment go up, obviously.
4. X-ray impact is cumulative.
1. Security will very probably take the film out of the bag. You're not supposed to hide things from them. Whether or not they hand scan the film or toss it back through the x-ray is another question.
2. TSA guidelines say travelers have a right to ask for film to be hand scanned. If you get a grumpy TSA officer or a busy airport, the answer may be "No."
3. The technology used to x-ray carry-on and checked baggage is different. Checked film will be fried. Film at 800 and below in carry-on should not be damaged at airports in the developed world, where the odds of running into faulty or miscalibrated equipment are very small. The odds of that happening in countries that can't afford to maintain or properly staff their equiment go up, obviously.
4. X-ray impact is cumulative.
scottwallick
ambition ≥ skill
There's also the plane ride itself to consider; at 36000 ft, there's quite a lot of radiation bouncing around, e.g.,
www.ratical.org/radiation/CNR/RMP/planes+xrays.html
Here's Kodak's take:
www.kodak.com/global/en/service/tib/tib5201.shtml
Last December, I went to Morocco. The film I brought (x30 Fuji 400H) faced four possible x-ray scans: once at JFK, once in Madrid (transit), once in Casablanca (return), and once more in Madrid.
I divided my film in two zip lock bags that fit inside two Hakuba P-1600 X-ray bags. I approached security personnel with the film in zip lock bags and requested a hand inspection. If denied, I put the zip lock bags in the x-ray bags for scanning.
At JFK, I received a hand inspection no problem.
In Madrid, I did not receive a hand inspection; however, since I had doubled up the x-ray bags, the scanner only produced an image a black block when it went through. (I was able to see the scanner monitor.) So in addition to having the film scanned, I then got a hand inspection. Meh.
In Casablanca, I was surprised with two security checks with x-ray scanning. For the first (a large, scary x-ray machine), I was denied a hand inspection, so it went through in the x-ray bags (yikes). At the second security check just after customs, I received a hand inspection.
Back in Madrid, same story. No hand inspection, went through, they couldn't see anything, and it was hand inspected.
Total times film was x-rayed: 3. Rolls with fogged images: 0. The film could have been x-rayed up to 5 times. While it was a hassle, I'm glad I took the precaution.
www.ratical.org/radiation/CNR/RMP/planes+xrays.html
Here's Kodak's take:
www.kodak.com/global/en/service/tib/tib5201.shtml
Last December, I went to Morocco. The film I brought (x30 Fuji 400H) faced four possible x-ray scans: once at JFK, once in Madrid (transit), once in Casablanca (return), and once more in Madrid.
I divided my film in two zip lock bags that fit inside two Hakuba P-1600 X-ray bags. I approached security personnel with the film in zip lock bags and requested a hand inspection. If denied, I put the zip lock bags in the x-ray bags for scanning.
At JFK, I received a hand inspection no problem.
In Madrid, I did not receive a hand inspection; however, since I had doubled up the x-ray bags, the scanner only produced an image a black block when it went through. (I was able to see the scanner monitor.) So in addition to having the film scanned, I then got a hand inspection. Meh.
In Casablanca, I was surprised with two security checks with x-ray scanning. For the first (a large, scary x-ray machine), I was denied a hand inspection, so it went through in the x-ray bags (yikes). At the second security check just after customs, I received a hand inspection.
Back in Madrid, same story. No hand inspection, went through, they couldn't see anything, and it was hand inspected.
Total times film was x-rayed: 3. Rolls with fogged images: 0. The film could have been x-rayed up to 5 times. While it was a hassle, I'm glad I took the precaution.
marduk
Well-known
I have carried lots of film with me in domke bag (I have two large ones). Normally security officers let it go through the machine and then put it aside for hand inspection, which is not a bad thing because in the countries I have travelled in Asia they would often deny you a hand check. I remember myself asking about hand inspection for a M3 with film inside on a domestic flight in India, but the security people in Delhi and Bangalore denied my request.
I've also had many cases when they didn't ask me to open the bag at all (in the Montenegro, UAE, Sri-Lanka and probably some India airports). On the other occasion in UAE the officer was so zealous that he opened the box of 4x5 film - luckily enough the inner plastik bag was sealed, but I was nervous carrying exposed film on the way back when, surprising enough, they ignored the lead bag.
I've also had many cases when they didn't ask me to open the bag at all (in the Montenegro, UAE, Sri-Lanka and probably some India airports). On the other occasion in UAE the officer was so zealous that he opened the box of 4x5 film - luckily enough the inner plastik bag was sealed, but I was nervous carrying exposed film on the way back when, surprising enough, they ignored the lead bag.
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jke
Well-known
Things shipped can be subject to spot-checks and sometimes x-rayed by customs or postal officials, depending on where from and to, not necessarily for security but rather for drug interdiction.
I know from talking to a TSA guy that the calibration procedure for the x-ray machines is a big deal, so "cranking up" the settings for a specific bag is not something they can do on demand.
I've found that the people with the least familiarity with the rules governing security inspections at airports are TSA officials. This basically renders the rules meaningless, unless you enjoy missing your flight while you wait for a knowledgeable supervisor to show up.
I've had film affected by xray before but not since 2005.
Alan Chin told me to just carry my film in ziplock bags. He's been in all sorts of places with film, so I follow his advice.
A couple years ago I ran into a couple photographer assistants from a Sports Illustrated swimsuit shoot, and they were carrying several hundred rolls of 120 film onto a plane in clear plastic trash bags.
I think in the end you do what makes you most comfortable.
I know from talking to a TSA guy that the calibration procedure for the x-ray machines is a big deal, so "cranking up" the settings for a specific bag is not something they can do on demand.
I've found that the people with the least familiarity with the rules governing security inspections at airports are TSA officials. This basically renders the rules meaningless, unless you enjoy missing your flight while you wait for a knowledgeable supervisor to show up.
I've had film affected by xray before but not since 2005.
Alan Chin told me to just carry my film in ziplock bags. He's been in all sorts of places with film, so I follow his advice.
A couple years ago I ran into a couple photographer assistants from a Sports Illustrated swimsuit shoot, and they were carrying several hundred rolls of 120 film onto a plane in clear plastic trash bags.
I think in the end you do what makes you most comfortable.
Steve Bellayr
Veteran
I have one but stopped using it. The x-ray technician took me around back to demonstate that he could see the film cannisters through the bag. Up to 800 iso/asa no problem at all without the bag. (I don't know about higher iso/asa.) Their scanners have improved.
JohnTF
Veteran
I gave my friend several boxes of nice fiber paper to take back to Seattle. I had pulled one sheet to process to make sure it was still good-- no fog.
She allowed Delta to xray it, but paper has a similar density to stuff they are looking for. She explained it was light sensitive, and they insisted upon opening it. They agreed to open it in the dark and see if it was paper.
She arrived, the box was entirely fogged.
Sometimes they make things up. The unopened box was fine.
I had a square book, and that got their attention, the bad stuff in movies is always in a square.
I suppose 35mm film reloaded in plastic cartridges should not set off a metal detector, FWIW. I have walked 120 film through in cargo pants pockets.
Hard to find logic, so you really cannot predict your situation. There is one carry on line with more powerful xray machines which tell you to not to put film through.
Film prices in Prague are reasonable, so I used to buy film there and often process it there as well, now that I think of it, I have processing tanks with a friend there.
Always allow yourself more time for searches and try to pass through when they are less busy if you can see the line from the bar. ;-)
John
She allowed Delta to xray it, but paper has a similar density to stuff they are looking for. She explained it was light sensitive, and they insisted upon opening it. They agreed to open it in the dark and see if it was paper.
She arrived, the box was entirely fogged.
Sometimes they make things up. The unopened box was fine.
I had a square book, and that got their attention, the bad stuff in movies is always in a square.
I suppose 35mm film reloaded in plastic cartridges should not set off a metal detector, FWIW. I have walked 120 film through in cargo pants pockets.
Hard to find logic, so you really cannot predict your situation. There is one carry on line with more powerful xray machines which tell you to not to put film through.
Film prices in Prague are reasonable, so I used to buy film there and often process it there as well, now that I think of it, I have processing tanks with a friend there.
Always allow yourself more time for searches and try to pass through when they are less busy if you can see the line from the bar. ;-)
John
Rob-F
Likes Leicas
That's about right. I have one of these, but no longer use it, having had no problems with multiple (6 or 7X) exposures of ISO 400 film; or 2 exposures with Ilford Delta 3200. It just adds to your baggage weight. Take more film or an extra lens instead!