wgerrard
Veteran
OK. So, I bought myself a nice Olympus OM-2N and a couple lenses to keep company with my Bessa R4M. I go off for a short trip and return with some E-6 to drop off at the "local" lab that's 40 minutes away.
Hey, look, there's a big "Space Available" sign in the lab's window. The lab is empty, defunct, a dead parrot. Funny. You'd think they might have mentioned something.
So, I'm off to by some mailers.
Meanwhile, this will likely prompt me to try learning to do B&W processing at home. (To save money, if nothing else. I figure sending film away for processing adds about $5 per roll for shipping, and double that if I ship it out Priority Mail. Aprrox. $20 a roll is getting to be real money.)
Here are the Really Dumb Questions:
1. What's the Brain Dead Simplest and Most Forgiving way for a newbie to start? What film? What chemicals? (I'm not gonna stand up a darkroom. I'll use a bag and scan negatives.) I've got a collection of links to various howto's. Is one as good as the other? (Apologies if this has been asked and answered repeatedly.)
2. I recall reading about some chemicals that do not need to be maintained at a constant temperature when mixed. Do they exist? As a newbie, I say "Hey, Neat!" As a realist, I say, "What's the downside?"
Thanks.
Hey, look, there's a big "Space Available" sign in the lab's window. The lab is empty, defunct, a dead parrot. Funny. You'd think they might have mentioned something.
So, I'm off to by some mailers.
Meanwhile, this will likely prompt me to try learning to do B&W processing at home. (To save money, if nothing else. I figure sending film away for processing adds about $5 per roll for shipping, and double that if I ship it out Priority Mail. Aprrox. $20 a roll is getting to be real money.)
Here are the Really Dumb Questions:
1. What's the Brain Dead Simplest and Most Forgiving way for a newbie to start? What film? What chemicals? (I'm not gonna stand up a darkroom. I'll use a bag and scan negatives.) I've got a collection of links to various howto's. Is one as good as the other? (Apologies if this has been asked and answered repeatedly.)
2. I recall reading about some chemicals that do not need to be maintained at a constant temperature when mixed. Do they exist? As a newbie, I say "Hey, Neat!" As a realist, I say, "What's the downside?"
Thanks.
marcr1230
Well-known
the developer is Diafine, check out this thread:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73191&highlight=diafine
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73191&highlight=diafine
Gradskater
Well-known
easiest by far is tri-x or arista premium 400 (the same film pretty much) processed with Diafine. You won't need a special timer, you won't need to worry about temperature (room temp is fine) and it gives nice results. search diafine on the forum and you can find out a whole lot more, but it is by far the easiest and most forgiving way to process black and white.
MCTuomey
Veteran
i bought a changing bag and a daylight tank w/2 plastic reels, using my kitchen sink and counter, a tub for a water bath, a few grad cylinders for measurement, and dark containers to store the chemicals once mixed. HC-110 and rodinal, though if i were starting over i think my road would begin with diafine (or D76). hardest part initially was the darn reels, but practice solves that quickly. don't skimp on the post-fixer wash and photo-flo or its equivalent is worth the extra step.
DerekF
Established
Bill,
After a 5-year hiatus from developing B&W films (and forgetting everything I was taught about how to do it when I took a photography course in the mid-90s), I used these instructions from Ilford to get back into it several years ago:
http://www.ilfordphoto.com/applications/page.asp?n=31
I use a changing bag since I don't have anywhere large and dark enough in my flat to load film onto the tank reels. It works quite well, although I still only do it in subdued lighting.
After a 5-year hiatus from developing B&W films (and forgetting everything I was taught about how to do it when I took a photography course in the mid-90s), I used these instructions from Ilford to get back into it several years ago:
http://www.ilfordphoto.com/applications/page.asp?n=31
I use a changing bag since I don't have anywhere large and dark enough in my flat to load film onto the tank reels. It works quite well, although I still only do it in subdued lighting.
mfogiel
Veteran
Bill,
Welcome to the wonderful world of B&W.
As othets have said, Tri-X in Diafine is the foolproof way to go forward. Make sure to get yourself some Hewes steel reels and a steel tank, as this is the best developing equipment. Personally, I find that a 4 reel tank is the one I use most frequently.
Re Diafine: 3+3 minutes with gentle (a couple of slow inversions) agitation every minute foots the bill for me. Make sure to bang the tank against a hard surface after agitation to dislodge the bubbles. Do not use stop bath or water, just solution A, then solution B, then fix and wash. Last wash should be in demineralized water with a few drops of photo flo and optionally some alcohol. You can shoot anywhere between EI 200 and 1600, but for me iso 800-1000 gives the best results.
Here's a shot of Tri-X in Diafine @EI 1000:
Then, one day you might want to "upgrade" to a conventional developer or something "special", the golden combination is Tri X in D 76
And "something special" could be a pyro type developer, this is Tri X in Prescysol EF
Welcome to the wonderful world of B&W.
As othets have said, Tri-X in Diafine is the foolproof way to go forward. Make sure to get yourself some Hewes steel reels and a steel tank, as this is the best developing equipment. Personally, I find that a 4 reel tank is the one I use most frequently.
Re Diafine: 3+3 minutes with gentle (a couple of slow inversions) agitation every minute foots the bill for me. Make sure to bang the tank against a hard surface after agitation to dislodge the bubbles. Do not use stop bath or water, just solution A, then solution B, then fix and wash. Last wash should be in demineralized water with a few drops of photo flo and optionally some alcohol. You can shoot anywhere between EI 200 and 1600, but for me iso 800-1000 gives the best results.
Here's a shot of Tri-X in Diafine @EI 1000:
Then, one day you might want to "upgrade" to a conventional developer or something "special", the golden combination is Tri X in D 76
And "something special" could be a pyro type developer, this is Tri X in Prescysol EF
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Vics
Veteran
I agree fully with mfogiel about the Hewes reels. very easy loading once you learn how. I use a large changing bag and really prefer it to sitting in a dark closet. I load the film at the dining room table. Do a practice run with a sacrifice roll of film in daylight so you can see how it loads.
This stuff is great fun, puts you in control, and saves you some money, too. I think time and temp are very important. Otherwise how do you know how to adjust when a problem arises?Enjoy!
Vic
This stuff is great fun, puts you in control, and saves you some money, too. I think time and temp are very important. Otherwise how do you know how to adjust when a problem arises?Enjoy!
Vic
amateriat
We're all light!
Just about everything said here is good-to-great advice. You really don't need much to get going, but if you really get into it, a few good tanks, bunch of reels, and decent timer makes things go just the little bit more smoothly. I was lucky to get hold of a nice set of gently-used Nikor/Honeywell steel tanks and reels accurate dial thermometer, GE lab timers, and even a small, wall-hanging electric film dryer. I use a changing bag because (1) I don't have a single room completely sealed from light I can duck into conveniently (even the walk-in closet has a window, albeit a small one), and (2) I don't necessarily care to wait for night to come before souping some rolls; my schedule is rather higgledy-piggledy, so I take my spare time where I have it.
My main film/developer combo has been HP5 Plus and HC-110; HP5 has almost as big a following as Tri-X (which I no doubt will be trying again...can't go wrong with it). HC-110 comes as a concentrated liquid, keeps for a long time that way, and can by mixed in a wide number of concentrations, making it convenient and economical. Either Tri-X or HP5 will get you off to a great start, though some believe Tri-X is somewhat more forgiving in terms of small timing errors in processing. (I haven't noticed this, but I've only been but so sloppy in terms of timing.)
Give it a shot, and have a ball. It can be habit-forming, but there are worse habits by far than this.
- Barrett
My main film/developer combo has been HP5 Plus and HC-110; HP5 has almost as big a following as Tri-X (which I no doubt will be trying again...can't go wrong with it). HC-110 comes as a concentrated liquid, keeps for a long time that way, and can by mixed in a wide number of concentrations, making it convenient and economical. Either Tri-X or HP5 will get you off to a great start, though some believe Tri-X is somewhat more forgiving in terms of small timing errors in processing. (I haven't noticed this, but I've only been but so sloppy in terms of timing.)
Give it a shot, and have a ball. It can be habit-forming, but there are worse habits by far than this.
- Barrett
Ducky
Well-known
Tri-X in Rodinal and any good fixer. I use a bag and plastic reels and tank.
I use everything at room temperature, I keep a gallon of water under the sink so it is also at room temp when I start. It is such a forgiving process no matter how you do it.
What scanner do you use?
I use everything at room temperature, I keep a gallon of water under the sink so it is also at room temp when I start. It is such a forgiving process no matter how you do it.
What scanner do you use?
wgerrard
Veteran
Nikon Coolscan V ED.
And thanks to everyone for the great advice. I'll set about acquiring the goodies and post some pics from my debut effort, if they're not too embarrassing, of course.
Graham Line
Well-known
The Ilford instructions are a great starting point. Henry Horenstein's "Black and White Photography" will answer your questions as they arise. Good luck.
Sonny Boy Havidson
Established
"Lab closure means learning B&W processing"
Well... According to me, learning B&W processing means taking distance with labs.
Well... According to me, learning B&W processing means taking distance with labs.
Svitantti
Well-known
Film doesn't REALLY matter, but faster films have lower contrast. Traditional films (not Tmax or Delta or Acros) are easier because they have less contrast also in the ends (dark and bright).
Just choose a developer that is simple. I would suggest HC-110 because it is already liquid and works for many kind of processing, like pushing also (Rodinal isnt really great for that and gives much grain).
Color development is not that hard either, especially C41 is as simple as B&W except for the temperature and chemicals.
Just choose a developer that is simple. I would suggest HC-110 because it is already liquid and works for many kind of processing, like pushing also (Rodinal isnt really great for that and gives much grain).
Color development is not that hard either, especially C41 is as simple as B&W except for the temperature and chemicals.
kxl
Social Documentary
BEFORE ANYTHING ELSE...
1) Buy a reel (steel or plastic)
2) Take a cheap roll of film
3) Close your eyes / put on a blindfold / go into a closet / dark room
4) Load roll onto reel.
Once you can do that with ease on a regular basis, then you can start buying all the other stuff and worry about what film/developer to use.
If you cannot get the hang of the above steps, the rest of it is irrelevant.
1) Buy a reel (steel or plastic)
2) Take a cheap roll of film
3) Close your eyes / put on a blindfold / go into a closet / dark room
4) Load roll onto reel.
Once you can do that with ease on a regular basis, then you can start buying all the other stuff and worry about what film/developer to use.
If you cannot get the hang of the above steps, the rest of it is irrelevant.
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Svitantti
Well-known
Keith, I really dont think it is that hard. I managed to do it first time just ok, but had a wasted film to practice with - eyes open or closed.
Not a bad idea to practice before doing it with actual, shot film, but you can go ahead and buy the stuff. All the development is fairly easy, I would say cooking some pasta is about equally hard or even harder...
Its all pretty straight-forward and simple. You can find the development times for starting points, but you will have to see what works best for you. So dont wait for other people to tell you the "real" times, just practice and see how it goes. And I dont mean you have to waste a lot of film until you get good results - it is not usually that critical. But it helps sticking to same materials (film and developer) to get to know them and improve the results as far as you can.
Not a bad idea to practice before doing it with actual, shot film, but you can go ahead and buy the stuff. All the development is fairly easy, I would say cooking some pasta is about equally hard or even harder...
Its all pretty straight-forward and simple. You can find the development times for starting points, but you will have to see what works best for you. So dont wait for other people to tell you the "real" times, just practice and see how it goes. And I dont mean you have to waste a lot of film until you get good results - it is not usually that critical. But it helps sticking to same materials (film and developer) to get to know them and improve the results as far as you can.
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Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
Bill,
Welcome to the wonderful world of B&W.
As othets have said, Tri-X in Diafine is the foolproof way to go forward. Make sure to get yourself some Hewes steel reels and a steel tank, as this is the best developing equipment. Personally, I find that a 4 reel tank is the one I use most frequently.
Re Diafine: 3+3 minutes with gentle (a couple of slow inversions) agitation every minute foots the bill for me. Make sure to bang the tank against a hard surface after agitation to dislodge the bubbles. Do not use stop bath or water, just solution A, then solution B, then fix and wash. Last wash should be in demineralized water with a few drops of photo flo and optionally some alcohol. You can shoot anywhere between EI 200 and 1600, but for me iso 800-1000 gives the best results.
Here's a shot of Tri-X in Diafine @EI 1000:
Then, one day you might want to "upgrade" to a conventional developer or something "special", the golden combination is Tri X in D 76
And "something special" could be a pyro type developer, this is Tri X in Prescysol EF
I really like the way you often punctuate your posts with images Marek ... !
As said to the OP ... it's a very simple process and you'll soon be wondering why you never did it before ... and in fact will probably want to thank the lab for closing!
wgerrard
Veteran
...will probably want to thank the lab for closing!
Well, that's doubftul,
No reason I can't shoot color and b&w. Both have their place.It's the cost and the wait involved with sending film off for processing that annoys me. E.g., I sent some Ektachrome off to 4PhotoLabs today. Their fee for mounted slides is $10 per roll. That's about a dollar more than the now-defunct lab. Add $5 for Priority mail back to me, and another $5 for me to use Priority Mail to send the film to them. That's $20, minus the cost of the film itself. So, give or take a couple of dollars, I'm looking at $25 or more for 36 slides. I don't expect to see my slides until next Thursday at the earliest.
-doomed-
film is exciting
Learning black and white development is worth it . Since souping my first roll the other day I'm on a tear shooting and developing. Now that i've done that i bought a bulk loader too, my dslr is going to need a sensor clean from sitting idle for so long now.
Spleenrippa
Yes, Right There
Totally on the mark. I filled the canisters, shot and developed my first few rolls about six months ago, and I won't ever look back.
My Bessa R has become quite the workhorse, while my A350 DSLR has been relegated to studio use only.
wontonny
Well-known
Plain and simple. What you will need
Bottle opener
Scissors
Loading Bag (this is much easier than an entire dark room.)
Developing tanks with PLASTIC REELS!*****
Graduated liquid measuring devices
Thermometer
Source of water*
Method to dry**
D-76 developer***
tri-x film****
Fixer
*I use filtered water at the last wash bath. (anywhere else in the process, water quality is unimportant) It eliminates water spots, and the need for Photoflo
**Method of drying: I personally roll the film backwards on to the reels again and dry them in a drawer slightly ajar. This prevents curling of film after dry and cuts down almost all dust. You could certainly hang the entire roll rolled out in your shower with weights at the bottom.
***D-76 developer is probably one of the most common beginner developers out there. Dilute 1 part water : 1 part developer. Just read the directions on the packet how to mix the powder.
****Tri-x is one of the best films to combine with d-76. You will see in your results. If you manage to remember every time, just rewind your film until you hear the leader coming off the take-up spool in your camera. This will allow you to cut the leader out in the light, between sprocket holes. This will save you SO much time. Otherwise, you'd be fumbling around in a loading bag trying to cut it.
Edit: *****Don't listen to people when they say you're more hardcore if you use stainless steel reels! haha. I don't want to risk any of my images due to loading errors on stainless steel reels. Plastic reels load correctly probably almost 100% of the time (at least when I load).
All in all, it's a very easy (and very fun) process to learn. The results are rewarding. Just remember how you feel when you take that long strip of negatives off the reels. (After you've fixed them and washed them of course!)
Bottle opener
Scissors
Loading Bag (this is much easier than an entire dark room.)
Developing tanks with PLASTIC REELS!*****
Graduated liquid measuring devices
Thermometer
Source of water*
Method to dry**
D-76 developer***
tri-x film****
Fixer
*I use filtered water at the last wash bath. (anywhere else in the process, water quality is unimportant) It eliminates water spots, and the need for Photoflo
**Method of drying: I personally roll the film backwards on to the reels again and dry them in a drawer slightly ajar. This prevents curling of film after dry and cuts down almost all dust. You could certainly hang the entire roll rolled out in your shower with weights at the bottom.
***D-76 developer is probably one of the most common beginner developers out there. Dilute 1 part water : 1 part developer. Just read the directions on the packet how to mix the powder.
****Tri-x is one of the best films to combine with d-76. You will see in your results. If you manage to remember every time, just rewind your film until you hear the leader coming off the take-up spool in your camera. This will allow you to cut the leader out in the light, between sprocket holes. This will save you SO much time. Otherwise, you'd be fumbling around in a loading bag trying to cut it.
Edit: *****Don't listen to people when they say you're more hardcore if you use stainless steel reels! haha. I don't want to risk any of my images due to loading errors on stainless steel reels. Plastic reels load correctly probably almost 100% of the time (at least when I load).
All in all, it's a very easy (and very fun) process to learn. The results are rewarding. Just remember how you feel when you take that long strip of negatives off the reels. (After you've fixed them and washed them of course!)
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