barefoot
talented, but lazy
As I research the possibility of investing in some Leica equipment, I've been noticing that MP's seem to be a lot more dear than M7's on the used market (seriously, like double), though the price is identical for the new ones.
Is it because the MP's are more solidly built? More timeless as a strictly manual camera body? There must be something I'm missing...
Is it because the MP's are more solidly built? More timeless as a strictly manual camera body? There must be something I'm missing...
Tim Gray
Well-known
Something I'm missing too. Since I wanted an M7 though, I didn't complain.
Actually, M7's have been on the market longer.
Actually, M7's have been on the market longer.
thomasw_
Well-known
The missing info you need to know comes down to this: the MP rocks.
Yes, it has been expressed in more formal terms, but always it comes down to folks claiming in various ways that the MP rocks the photog soul hard to the core.
I hope that clears up the issue
maddoc
... likes film again.
I had an MP (sold) and now have an M7, both bought used. My MP was $600 more expensive than the M7, barely used and needed several trips to Leica to function properly. On the other hand, my M7 had the shutter jammed after 70 rolls of film and needed one trip to Leica to be fixed.
From experience, there is no difference in reliability or better build. The M7 needs batteries (simple SR44 everywhere available will do) to be fully functional otherwise it has more - useful - features (AE, TTL metering, meters down to -5 EV, longest shutter speed 32s) and is more practical in use, IMHO.
I often read the comments from buyers of the MP about a "life-time investment" and always wonder why so many of the "life-time investments" pop up for sale ...
From experience, there is no difference in reliability or better build. The M7 needs batteries (simple SR44 everywhere available will do) to be fully functional otherwise it has more - useful - features (AE, TTL metering, meters down to -5 EV, longest shutter speed 32s) and is more practical in use, IMHO.
I often read the comments from buyers of the MP about a "life-time investment" and always wonder why so many of the "life-time investments" pop up for sale ...
MikeL
Go Fish
I disagree. The MP rocks, totally.
Folks always try and bring rational thinking into an internet forum. Troubleshooting a problem with a camera is one thing. But whatever. The MP rocks. Post of the month Thomas, nice work.
kshapero
South Florida Man
I have an M7 and so far it is more fragile than any ZI or Bessa I have owned, but it is a dream to use. I had an MP for 6 weeks while my 7 was at Leica (thank you Dale Labs for the loaner), it is probably more solid because it is more stripped down. Less features equals less problems. So because it is the "classic" of the modern Leica's it gets the cult status, i.e. it costs more used.
Tim Gray
Well-known
This was the kind of thing I was trying to avoid. My M7 has been rock solid too. I like it in every way more than my M6. I'm not going to sit here and tell you that the M7 is better than the MP in absolute terms. At the same time, I think it's a bit silly to say the MP is better than the M7 in absolute terms. People might have preferences over one or the other, but they are both well built, fairly reliable cameras.
If you want the possibility of auto exposure as well as the option for full manual use, the M7 is great. If you want a camera whose shutter works at all speeds without a battery, get the MP. Otherwise they are pretty much similar.
If you want the possibility of auto exposure as well as the option for full manual use, the M7 is great. If you want a camera whose shutter works at all speeds without a battery, get the MP. Otherwise they are pretty much similar.
kshapero
South Florida Man
Not as similar as one would think. M7 has many more features but also ****ty battery life. Both as solid as a rock. But there subtle but distinct differences. i love the extra features of the 7, the MP is mighty fine.
maddoc
... likes film again.
About pricing .... When I was buying my MP, both cameras used were about the same price (two and a half years ago) but used MP hard to find. Since then the M7 became drastically cheaper, the MP not so.
matt335
Well-known
ot sure what a new M7 costs here in Sydney, but I saw a most lovely 2nd hand MP with a Leicavit (? rapid rewind) in Excellent Cond for $4,000 retail.
robbo
Robbo
For me the intriguing thing is, if Leica prices these two identically, then you might assume that they consider them of equal 'worth'. Are used prices hinting at something Leica have missed? If so, perhaps we should expect them to drop the price of the M7.
On a personal level, I'm rather grateful that the used market has moved the way it has, allowing me to get an M7 at a much more acceptable price.
On a personal level, I'm rather grateful that the used market has moved the way it has, allowing me to get an M7 at a much more acceptable price.
TomN
Established
I have both. I too think that the M7 is a great day to day user, and the AE does speed things up. But my mind does feel clearer when i use the mp, and it generally feels better. I realise that this is likely all in my head, but that is just how I feel. i have my black m7 loaded with black and white, and my mp loaded with colour, so my m7 gets alot more use. if i were to grab one of the two for a two year round the world trip, then no question, the m7 is staying home.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Traditionalists prefer the all-mechanical, battery-independent MP, and a lot of Leicas sell to traditionalists.
Cheers,
R.
Cheers,
R.
akiralx
Established
That sounds quite good for Aus - I'm in Melbourne now but when in the UK I paid just under £2K for a very fine used black paint MP with Leicavit + crank (which I never use). The MP arrived here fine two weeks ago after 3 months at sea, with the rest of my possessions...
zerobuttons
Well-known
Could it be that the ones considering their MP a life-time investment are not the same posting sales ads with MPs?.....
I often read the comments from buyers of the MP about a "life-time investment" and always wonder why so many of the "life-time investments" pop up for sale ...
Meleica
Well-known
The MP's typically sell for $ 250-500 more than the M7 in the used market which I believe is mainly a supply issue - fewer MP's were made.
Dan
Dan
Austerby
Well-known
I've had both. To my mind the MP is the camera equivalent of those retro car models - the new Mini, new Beetle etc. They're in many ways inferior to the competition but they're often more appealing despite it.
I could never make my mind up between the MP and M7 so I bought one of each at roughly at the same time. Looking back over the two or so years of ownership I have used nearly the same volume of films through each. Both were very satisfactory to use but my M7 had better build quality than my MP, I felt. (The shutter speed dial fell off the MP whilst I was in Thailand...)
It was never the intention to keep both, but as I couldn't place one ahead of the other I ended up selling them both! I'm much happier now with my M3/R3a/IIIa rangefinder set.
As for prices, both were bought secondhand. The MP was about £200 more than the M7 and that difference had changed to about £300 when I sold them recently.
I could never make my mind up between the MP and M7 so I bought one of each at roughly at the same time. Looking back over the two or so years of ownership I have used nearly the same volume of films through each. Both were very satisfactory to use but my M7 had better build quality than my MP, I felt. (The shutter speed dial fell off the MP whilst I was in Thailand...)
It was never the intention to keep both, but as I couldn't place one ahead of the other I ended up selling them both! I'm much happier now with my M3/R3a/IIIa rangefinder set.
As for prices, both were bought secondhand. The MP was about £200 more than the M7 and that difference had changed to about £300 when I sold them recently.
peter_n
Veteran
There are probably more M7s on the market because the camera is more likely to be traded in for an M8 or M9 I think. That will depress the price a bit. I've used both and they are terrific cameras but I did find myself getting lazy with the AE on the M7.
__hh
Well-known
I have had the M6TTL, M7, and MP. After using them all for a decent amount of time, I settled for an M6TTL w/ MP finder upgrade.
For me, MP was the nicest of the three (with the build quality and the beautiful finder), but the pricing premium was not justified.
The M7 is also a great camera, but the AE made me lazy (and I liked the involvement of full manual exposures).
Therefore, if the M7 without AE is good enough, I found a great compromise by settling for a great M6TTL that had the finder upgraded with an MP finder.
If I ***needed** AE, there's always the M8 or my SLR gear.
P.S. I miss my MP already
For me, MP was the nicest of the three (with the build quality and the beautiful finder), but the pricing premium was not justified.
The M7 is also a great camera, but the AE made me lazy (and I liked the involvement of full manual exposures).
Therefore, if the M7 without AE is good enough, I found a great compromise by settling for a great M6TTL that had the finder upgraded with an MP finder.
If I ***needed** AE, there's always the M8 or my SLR gear.
P.S. I miss my MP already
kshapero
South Florida Man
How is an M6TTL a compromise? Why didn't you just keep the MP?I have had the M6TTL, M7, and MP. After using them all for a decent amount of time, I settled for an M6TTL w/ MP finder upgrade.
For me, MP was the nicest of the three (with the build quality and the beautiful finder), but the pricing premium was not justified.
The M7 is also a great camera, but the AE made me lazy (and I liked the involvement of full manual exposures).
Therefore, if the M7 without AE is good enough, I found a great compromise by settling for a great M6TTL that had the finder upgraded with an MP finder.
If I ***needed** AE, there's always the M8 or my SLR gear.
P.S. I miss my MP already