Buying a RF folder

[VíctorRF]

Hi guys!

Could you help me to buy a good RF folder?

_ good price
_good condition
_good places to buy one (maybe ebay is not the best one...)
_in Europe, if its possible (due to the shipping costs an tax...)

Thanks!

 

[hanskerensky]

Try the United Kingdom seller beedhams on ebay. He sells folders on a regular base and has a good reputation. Ofcourse his prices are a bit higher but then again you'll receive a camera which has been checked and serviced.

 

[pschauss]

Ebay seller cupog usually has one or two listed. He usually does a CLA on his cameras. I have bought two Super Ikontas from him, a 532/16 and a 530 A. Both were in very good condition and worked perfectly right out of the box. I paid a bit more, but I did not have to worry about having them serviced.

 

[oftheherd]

I have bought off ebay with reasonably good results. Ask a seller about the bellows, shutter and lens. Make sure the seller agrees the lens is without scratches, fog and fungus. The lens should seem to be close to correct. The bellows should be without tears or pinholes. Make sure they have a good return policy. Of course, it is always a crap shoot with ebay. Expect a shutter that needs a good bath in lighter fluid no matter what the seller says.

 

[FallisPhoto]

Actually, if you're careful, ebay IS the best place.

 

[wupdigoj]

I agree with the previous poster. I have had very good experience buying cameras from Germany and U.K. in ebay. Spanish sellers are (in general) very expensive, and tend to think that every cheap kodak folder is a valuable collectors item. It is also difficult to find quality folders in Spain ebay thought they appear now and then.

I like reparing cameras, so it is not an issue to me, but every old camera I have bought needed some work (in spite of the seller claims). Fortunately folders are in general easy to fix. Just confirm that the lens is not (very) scratched and doesn't suffer separation or fungus.

Good luck

Javier

 

[FallisPhoto]

I agree with the previous poster. I have had very good experience buying cameras from Germany and U.K. in ebay. Spanish sellers are (in general) very expensive, and tend to think that every cheap kodak folder is a valuable collectors item. It is also difficult to find quality folders in Spain ebay thought they appear now and then.

I like reparing cameras, so it is not an issue to me, but every old camera I have bought needed some work (in spite of the seller claims). Fortunately folders are in general easy to fix. Just confirm that the lens is not (very) scratched and doesn't suffer separation or fungus.

Good luck

Javier

Yeah, it's just that, like in real life, great deals don't come along every day. If you're dilligent and hunt for them though, they turn up every now and then. It might take you a couple of months to find a specific camera at a price you like and with a description that doesn't scare the heck out of you, but they are there. I'm on ebay every day and, even so, a lot of good deals get past me -- some don't though, and I have amassed a collection of over 100 cameras.

Three things to remember:
1. if you do find a great deal, don't mention it to anyone until the auction is over, and especially don't mention it in a forum.
2. look closely at the descriptions, look hard at the photos, and read theseller's last month of feedback. If anything bothers you, don't bid on it.
3. expect to have to do some work on anything you buy. An old camera will at least need to hve the old dried up lube removed and new put in. Might need new light seals too. The exception to this is a camera that has just been serviced, but this can typically add a couple of hundred dollars to the asking price. It's best to learn how to do at least a basic CLA.

 

[dave61]

Hi guys!

Could you help me to buy a good RF folder?

_ good price
_good condition
_good places to buy one (maybe ebay is not the best one...)
_in Europe, if its possible (due to the shipping costs an tax...)

Thanks!

I will say this for ebay: I've had very few problems with any ebay camera. Why? I learn all I can about camera's particulars before I go shopping. I learn its weaknesses, what questions to ask, what it usually sells for. I ask a lot of detailed questions. If seller doesn't respond, is terse, or evasive, I don't bid with them. A good seller has nothing to hide, politely answers all your questions, and offers inspection periods during which, if camera is not as they say, they'll take it back. I enjoy doing business with British + European-based sellers. On the whole, they have a greater appreciation for, and love of, photography (and its history), than their North American counterparts. I sense that most people involved with classic cameras in Britain are photographers who enjoy using classic equipment, not investors looking for appreciation.
Refuse to overpay! Opportunists selling cameras to collectors inflate values of used cameras, depriving real photographers of the joy of using vintage equipment. This offends me! Be patient! If you don't see it at a reasonable price today, wait! A similar camera will come along at a lower price. I have generally paid between $125-$175 U.S.Dollars (don't know what that is in British Pounds) for my 120 rangefinder folders. Some were less (my 1939 Ensign Auto-Range 220 or my 1963 6x6 Iskra) and some more (a 1949 6x6 Mamiya-Six) but for around $150 U.S.Dollars (plus shipping and insurance) you will find something you'll enjoy (but for $150 it won't be a Zeiss Ikon Super Ikonta or Voightlander Besssa II w/Heliar lens or Agfa Super Isolette w/ Solinar lens). Start with mid-range, like an Ensign Auto-Range 220.
I've purchased excellent cameras off ebay from private sellers. These were not stores but individuals selling their own cameras, or a friend's or relative's. They only had the one camera. There's no point in listing them.
I can list a few ebay sellers who are in the vintage camera business, who I've bought from, that I would recommend. This is only my opinion. Others may disagree:
1) camera-gallery (ebay store=Camera Gallery). Located: Greece. Proprietor: Kiriaki. Friendly, helpful, honest. Interesting inventory, including folders. Answered all questions. Shipping+insurance was fast and low-priced. Bought 1939 Minolta Auto-Semi at very reasonable price. Camera is fully functional, takes great photos and is one of my favorites.
2) camera_values (ebay store=Monarch Cameras). Located: England. Proprietor: Tim. Pleasant to deal with, good prices. Answers your questions quickly. Sells a lot of camera books and manuals. Had several 120 folders for sale when I bought my 1935 Ensign Auto-Range 20 (8 on 120). Interesting early 120 RF camera, works perfectly.
3) petrakla (ebay store=Petrakla Classic Cameras). Located: The Netherlands. Proprietors: Peter and Petra. Friendly. Very knowledgeable, top-notch customer service. Provided historical info about camera. Reasonable prices. They CLA all their cameras (for less than the Certo6). Sold me a beautiful 1934 Beier Rifax (Vauxhall) 8 or 16 on 120. They always have 120 folders for sale. Fast, cheap insurance+shipping.
4) royalbob (ebay store=camera-traderuk). Located: England. Proprietor: Paul (a gentleman and a scholar). Features British-made cameras. Good prices, honest seller, excellent communications. Bought 1948 Ensign Commando (12 or 16 on 120) from him at excellent price. His prices run a bit below what we see in America. Good camera, handles well, takes good photos.
5) pacificrimcamera (ebay store=Pacific Rim Camera). Located: U.S.A. Proprietors: Mike, Randy, Roger. California-based. Huge inventory, +10,000 classic cameras, lenses and parts. First rate service, communications, honesty, integrity. Mid-range prices. They don't CLA. What they say is camera's condition is exactly what you get. If they say it works good, it will. You MUST e-mail them. Their ebay listings are brief, no detailed info. I purchased a very reliable, pristine 1949 RB Series B Graflex SLR w/Graflex 23 Roll-film back and many hard-to-find accessories and original camera catalogs from them. I recommend them without hesitation.
I always wonder what a seller is hiding when they say they "don't know anything about cameras", therefor, they "can't say if it works or not" and "sales are final-no returns for any reason" Steer clear of these types. Only buy cameras from photographers (if possible), or at least from sellers who can tell a focal-plane shutter from a Compur shutter and a Leica from a Graflex. Good luck!😀

 

[Solinar]

I'll second Dave's recommendation on petrakla in the Netherlands, definitely a good source, especially for the older all-black Bessa RF.

With that said, I always expect at least a problem or two from an eBay camera. The first two things I do is check the shutter speed operation and the infinity focus. My preferred method to check the infinity focus is using the back-sighting method as outlined by Rick Oleson - http://rick_oleson.tripod.com/index-123.html

My last eBay purchase was a $167 Crown Graphic 23 with a 105 Xenar, which I purchased from Lisa. Her eBay ID is irrelevant. I liked the way the eBay advert stated that the camera has been stored in a smoke free home for the past 28 years.

The auction ended on Monday afternoon, so the camera will arrive next week. The reason I know Lisa's name is by repeatedly checking in with her. My first inquiry was is there a real person on the other end and whether or not she ever met the previous owner.

The key here is communication. Does the seller sound like someone you'd want to do business with?

Anyway, I'm sure my 1947 Crown Graphic 23 will need a complete CLA, which I'm willing to do on this model. The seller turned out to be the daughter-in-law of the original owner. The crack in the ground glass focus screen seemed to keep the price down.

Why a Graflex 2x3?

*** Well for one they are cheaper than a Super Ikonta C or my current Bessa II, which I paid $130 for in 2002 and had to replace the bellows.

*** The Crown Graphic 23 is still a medium format folder of sorts. Although it essentially a shrunken press camera - which will take either a 6x9, 6x7 or 6x6 film back.

*** They are very well made and offer precision focusing that is a step above the usual pocket folder - but unfortunately way bigger than lets say my Agfa Super Isolette.

*** The Baby Graphlex has a lens coupled Kalart RF with a base length of 67mm between the two windows. Plus, there is the option of composing and focusing using a ground glass screen at the film plane.

The particulars on this camera made it interesting to me. Its serial number shows it to be an early production model from 1947 to which someone later fitted a Graflok back. Also, the 105mm 3.5 Xenar that was later fitted to a lens board is modern enough to use 40.5 hoods and filters. Two sets of lens stops and focus scales meant it was used with another lens.

No this camera won't fit in your back pocket, but it folds up nicely so that it is only about 4 inches / 10 cm deep.

In short, if you want to save money, don't insist on getting a high-end, super-duper folder Zeiss-Ikon, Voigtlander or Agfa folder from the 1950's. There are other options.

Happy Holidays Folks - cherish the moment even with the dim winter light.

 

[oftheherd]

...

1. if you do find a great deal, don't mention it to anyone until the auction is over, and especially don't mention it in a forum.
...

QUOTE]

Boy, is that ever true. I bragged about a buy of a particular type of camera I bought on another photo forum several years ago, and watched the prices skyrocket in the next three weeks. Sellers should have paid me a bonus! 😀 😀

I can also second Pacific Rim. I have made several purchases over the last few years. Always got what they said I would get.

 

[Solinar]

Three things to remember:
1. if you do find a great deal, don't mention it to anyone until the auction is over, and especially don't mention it in a forum.

Yep, in addition to the regular folks who post comments, there are dozens of lurkers and quite often the thread will show up in the top three of a google search.

 

[FallisPhoto]

Yep, in addition to the regular folks who post comments, there are dozens of lurkers and quite often the thread will show up in the top three of a google search.

I've lost half-a-dozen auctions that way. I mention the deal and a dozen new bidders appear right away.

I even lost one to a guy I mentioned it to in a private message.