Problems with Fuji Neopan pro 400 in Rodinal

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mcnaldo

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Hi
I'm new to home B&W development but I've had some success with Ilfosol 3 and 100 rated film. Recently I tried Tmax 400 in Ilfosol which came out poorly-grainy, cloudy and with thin greasy negatives. I used the Ilford sheet for times and use Ilford Stop and Fix. I then switched to Rodinal 1:50 with Neopan Pro 400. I read conflicting development times between 8 and 11 minutes at 20c and a post which said 9.30 was best so this being a compromise I put 2 rolls of Fuji Pro 400 through at 9.30 with similar though not so severe results as before-cloudy, grainy images and thin greasy negatives. I suspect its the development times but can anyone suggest anything? The image problems are not uniform across the area of the negative, but seem to congregate around the middle of the negs and the greasy feeling of the negatives is quite strange.
Thanks
Jim
 
How long are you washing your negs for? There's no reason for your negs to feel greasy... it sounds like you're not washing the fixer off for long enough.
 
I don't think I ever heard of this before. I don't recall fixer leaving anything greasy (do you mean slick?) either. Sounds more like developer being left on the negatives. I eagerly await others with more experience as I haven't developed for a while now.
 
Neopan in Rodinal problems

Neopan in Rodinal problems

Thanks.
I'm washing in cold running water with a drop of washing up liquid for 10 minutes as recommended by my photography class teacher. This worked OK before and the only thing I've changed is the film and obviously in the last 2 cases from Ilfosol to Rodinal. I agree that my first instinct was washing but I didn't think of fixing. I fixed at 1.00 min at 1:4 then 1.30 for the 2nd roll at 1:9 after stopping for 7 mins against the recommended 5 by my teacher for the last 2 rolls. It may be a combination of short fix and wash-I'll wait for any further feedback then try a couple of test rolls and post the results.

Jim
 
yeah... I fix for about 4 min... you can't really over fix (although some disagree) as long as you're not fixing for a ridiculous amount of time. If you're using a communal fixer bottle it's probably not at full strength either so I'd recommend fixing for 4-5 minutes. And if I read your comment right you're using stop bath for 7 minutes??? This seems like overkill. I don't even use a stop bath... after emptying the developer I fill the tank with water, dump.. fill then 5 inversions dump... fill then 10 inversions dump.. then add fixer, similar to the Ilford washing method and it works beautifully... with all the different developers I use. For Neopan 400 shot at 400 here's my routine:

- Rodinal 1:50 dev for 11 min (10 seconds agitation per minute)
- water stop bath as described above (1, 5 then 10 inversions)
- Fix bath for 3.5 min.. longer if it's old and not at full strength
- Ilford wash method (1 then 5,10,20 inversions new water in between each)
- 1 minute with Kodak Photo-Flo at 1:300-400

ooooh... I just thought of something... greasy/slick negs could be the result of using too high a consentration of the Photo-Flo agent on the last step... I think the bottle recommends 1:100 or 1:50 dillution but I find that's WAY too much and use 1ml per 400ml water, you just need a tiny bit really.. otherwise you DO get a soapy residue on the film that would concentrate in the center if you hang vertically to dry and the film bows... it will run down the middle and get cloudy and slick.
 
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John,

I think either you or your teacher have your stop and fix times the wrong way round.

You only need to stop for about 30 secs or a minute at most. 5 mins stop is waaaaaay more than required. Ask a chemist how long it takes for an acid (stop) to neutralise an alkali (developer) and it is pretty well instant. You only need to use stop for 30s or so to ensure the stop permeates the emulsion. Many people just use water as the dilution largely brings development to a halt, but acid stop does prepare the film for the acid fix and prolongs the life of the fix.

Fixing at 1+3 or 1+4 should really be done for a 2-3 minutes minimum. I generally use 4 mins approx at 1+4.

I do not use running water to wash film. Instead I use the Ilford technique which involves multiple fills of water and inversions. I then leave it to diffuse between rinses to allow the colourd anti-halation dye to come out (important with some films).

Personally, I would not recommend Rodinal with Neopan 400. It works, but is grainy, produces poor speed and I do not feel is a good generalist developer for this film. Try D76/ID-11/Xtol/DDX, the latter two giving much better speed than Rodinal and all giving much finer grain. Xtol 1+1 or so is superb IMHO. Cheap, good speed, low toxicity, fine grain, reasonable bite and just great... I use a LOT of this combo. Rodinal is great for when you want that gritty hard look.

Another tip: wash your film in water alone and remove it from the spiral. Theb run it through a container with wash aid solution in before hanging. Film treated with wash aid gums up spirals and reduces their life and can make loading sticky in high humidity. When I made this change the spirals lasted a LOT longer and they loaded more smoothly.

Good luck and enjoy! IMHO this is one of the best all round B&W films out there, ever. Incredible stuff...


mcnaldo said:
Thanks.
I'm washing in cold running water with a drop of washing up liquid for 10 minutes as recommended by my photography class teacher. This worked OK before and the only thing I've changed is the film and obviously in the last 2 cases from Ilfosol to Rodinal. I agree that my first instinct was washing but I didn't think of fixing. I fixed at 1.00 min at 1:4 then 1.30 for the 2nd roll at 1:9 after stopping for 7 mins against the recommended 5 by my teacher for the last 2 rolls. It may be a combination of short fix and wash-I'll wait for any further feedback then try a couple of test rolls and post the results.

Jim
Click to expand...
 
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While I've had great results from Neopan, both 400 and 100 Acros, both seem to require a lot longer fix than other films I've used.
 
Neopan in Rodinal problems

Neopan in Rodinal problems

Thanks-I think I've messed up just a bit here!
I'll go back to the drawing board and try some TMax 400 and follow the advice here on fix and stop times......yes I think I've had them the wrong way round!

I bought some xtol but I'm reluctant to make up 5l at one go-can I make it up in smaller amounts if I maintain the correct mixing ratio?

In the meantime I'll keep at it with the Rodinal and proper chemical times with test shots before I ruin any more priceless memories!

Thanks again
 
mcnaldo,

Mix up the Xtol in one batch. Pick up a large 5L bottle for the mixing and then decant into smaller bottles for storage. I use the datatainer brown plastic ones which are dirt cheap from B&H. You could also find a beer brand that comes with screw tops, like the 1L San Miguel bottles. Thse are dark brown glass and seal well.

In brown bottles full to the brim and away from sunlight I have had mine last close to a year with NO probs. In half full bottles away from sun mine has been fine after 2-3 months. Don't worry, Xtol lasts ages if stored in air tight bottles, preferably non gas permeable (i.e. the right sort of plastic or glass).

Try any film you like with the right stop and fix time and a decent wash and you will be fine. The new TMAX 400 has finder grain than Neopan 400, but I prefer the more traditional look of the latter. You may prefer Tmax 400! Either way, Xtol is a superb developer with both.
 
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