xwhatsit
Well-known
Hi there,
Bought a nice looking Minister D that I think has been sitting around for quite a while. I haven't put any film through it yet, but noticed after it was delivered that while at first the shutter seemed to be perfect, as I exercised it more and more (just playing around), the shutter seemed to be getting more and more erratic. It eventually stuck open.
Stupidly, I then thought I'd play with some of the knobs and rings on the thing and (d'oh!) wound up the delay-timer :bang: Of course, with a stuck shutter, it won't start counting and is stuck too now.
Obviously I'm going to need to get to the shutter (if I didn't need to before, I certainly do now!). I searched this lovely forum to see if anybody knew how to take the lens off the front of a Minister D and saw somebody describe using a rubber mat to screw the filter-ring off anti-clockwise. This isn't doing the trick.
I see that there are two little slots cut into the black nameplate on the lens (the bit that says YASHINON 1:2.8 f=4.5cm etc.). Is this where I should be trying to unscrew it? I tried using a couple of very fine screwdrivers to get to it but it seems to require more pressure than I feel comfortable with (with such tiny slots and that close to the glass lens).
All help would be much appreciated.
Thanks very much,
-Tom
Bought a nice looking Minister D that I think has been sitting around for quite a while. I haven't put any film through it yet, but noticed after it was delivered that while at first the shutter seemed to be perfect, as I exercised it more and more (just playing around), the shutter seemed to be getting more and more erratic. It eventually stuck open.
Stupidly, I then thought I'd play with some of the knobs and rings on the thing and (d'oh!) wound up the delay-timer :bang: Of course, with a stuck shutter, it won't start counting and is stuck too now.
Obviously I'm going to need to get to the shutter (if I didn't need to before, I certainly do now!). I searched this lovely forum to see if anybody knew how to take the lens off the front of a Minister D and saw somebody describe using a rubber mat to screw the filter-ring off anti-clockwise. This isn't doing the trick.
I see that there are two little slots cut into the black nameplate on the lens (the bit that says YASHINON 1:2.8 f=4.5cm etc.). Is this where I should be trying to unscrew it? I tried using a couple of very fine screwdrivers to get to it but it seems to require more pressure than I feel comfortable with (with such tiny slots and that close to the glass lens).
All help would be much appreciated.
Thanks very much,
-Tom
bundok
Member
Hi Tom,
I can't say anything about the work that lies ahead of you, but I can only advise you to build yourself a little tool for that kind of job like I did:
It just consists of two small pieces of wood with a hole, a bolt, nut and two washers. Between those pieces of wood you can put either small nails (for the screw on the advance lever, for instance) or some broken up cutter blades. When there is not much leverage they do their job just fine.
Something curious: Are you sure that these slots are on the black ring with the YASHINON-writing? This is the case on my Minister-700 (as featured above, my latest flea market find ... hehe) and on the Electro 35s because of their big lenses, but on my Minister-D (at least the one that was in reach) the slots are on the funnel-like ring beneath. Are there different versions of the Minister-D out there? Tomorrow I gotta check my other two Ds!
Good luck with your repair!
Michael
I can't say anything about the work that lies ahead of you, but I can only advise you to build yourself a little tool for that kind of job like I did:
It just consists of two small pieces of wood with a hole, a bolt, nut and two washers. Between those pieces of wood you can put either small nails (for the screw on the advance lever, for instance) or some broken up cutter blades. When there is not much leverage they do their job just fine.
Something curious: Are you sure that these slots are on the black ring with the YASHINON-writing? This is the case on my Minister-700 (as featured above, my latest flea market find ... hehe) and on the Electro 35s because of their big lenses, but on my Minister-D (at least the one that was in reach) the slots are on the funnel-like ring beneath. Are there different versions of the Minister-D out there? Tomorrow I gotta check my other two Ds!
Good luck with your repair!
Michael
xwhatsit
Well-known
Hi there bundok,
Thanks for the excellent reply! That looks like quite an easy thing to knock together.
However, in fact you're absolutely correct, on the Minister D the little cutouts are on the inside funnel bit. I now realise that the funnel and the nameplate are separate.
I've been sitting here at work worrying at the camera on my desk while I wait for compiles, and it's now doing something a bit different.
I'm using a rubber mousepad to grip the very outside (metal, threaded) filter ring. I have about 30 degrees of movement out of it --- however at the limits of this 30 degrees it simply stops hard, almost as if it were a bayonet fitting. It is getting freer and freer within this range but there's no making it go any further I think. Am I twiddling the right bit?
Cheers,
-Tom
EDIT: OK, scratch all that, I feel embarrassed now! I just went and got a stronger piece of rubber mat and got a bit rougher with the filter ring and it seemed to `crack' the final bit and open all the way! I now have access to the shutter. Looks like some curious lacquer and some metal shavings in the thread; will post some photos when I get home and take some shots with my digital.
Thanks for the excellent reply! That looks like quite an easy thing to knock together.
However, in fact you're absolutely correct, on the Minister D the little cutouts are on the inside funnel bit. I now realise that the funnel and the nameplate are separate.
I've been sitting here at work worrying at the camera on my desk while I wait for compiles, and it's now doing something a bit different.
I'm using a rubber mousepad to grip the very outside (metal, threaded) filter ring. I have about 30 degrees of movement out of it --- however at the limits of this 30 degrees it simply stops hard, almost as if it were a bayonet fitting. It is getting freer and freer within this range but there's no making it go any further I think. Am I twiddling the right bit?
Cheers,
-Tom
EDIT: OK, scratch all that, I feel embarrassed now! I just went and got a stronger piece of rubber mat and got a bit rougher with the filter ring and it seemed to `crack' the final bit and open all the way! I now have access to the shutter. Looks like some curious lacquer and some metal shavings in the thread; will post some photos when I get home and take some shots with my digital.
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xwhatsit
Well-known
All right, sorry for the double posting, but I'll just write this down for the sake of documentation.
Yes, you definitely do use the polished metal/chrome-looking outer threaded ring to undo the front lens group. From my experience here the threads could be binding on themselves with some sort of lacquer (perhaps purposely painted onto the threads?) and it might be very stiff and difficult to fully unscrew (ultra-fine thread, many many turns until it comes off).
Would seem that the shutter blades are sticking to each other. A little pressure in the middle of the shutter and they break that stiction and slide open. Sometimes it happens very quickly with no help, other times slowly draaaag open then shut OK, other times won't open at all unless I apply a little pressure. Will buy some lighter fluid/naphtha on my lunch break and give that a go.
Retaining the lens adjustment rings is a very thin knurled brass ring/nut thing. A little eccentric screw stops it from turning. Mine was marked with red paint to show how far it should be done up. It's a good idea to do it up to the same place when reassembling otherwise the adjustment rings will be very stiff to turn.
If one takes what I'd call the `cam' ring off (don't know the right word, but it's a round plate with a whole lot of cut-outs that manipulate the little pins which control shutter speed), getting all the pins back in the cam cut-outs is a little fiddly. The hardest one (and least obvious) is the spring-loaded pin which acts as a detent and gives those `clicks' as you move between shutter speeds. You'll need a tiny screwdriver to push the pin back against its spring so it fits in the cam. Otherwise you'll put it all back together and the rings will simply glide between shutter speeds with no click.
On another note, the battery was very easy to sort, just bought a hearing-aid Zinc/Air 675 size ($NZ10 for 12 batteries, so never mind the reported 6 month lifetime). A little ring of insulated copper wire (not sure of the exact gauge but looks like about 2-3mm thick including insulation) to go around the outside of the battery to stop it moving around due to its smaller diameter. Battery is too thin to touch both the positive and negative terminal so I got some soft electrical solder and rolled it up into a coil which fit inside the battery lid perfectly. Took up enough room and the meter appears to work a treat.
Yes, you definitely do use the polished metal/chrome-looking outer threaded ring to undo the front lens group. From my experience here the threads could be binding on themselves with some sort of lacquer (perhaps purposely painted onto the threads?) and it might be very stiff and difficult to fully unscrew (ultra-fine thread, many many turns until it comes off).
Would seem that the shutter blades are sticking to each other. A little pressure in the middle of the shutter and they break that stiction and slide open. Sometimes it happens very quickly with no help, other times slowly draaaag open then shut OK, other times won't open at all unless I apply a little pressure. Will buy some lighter fluid/naphtha on my lunch break and give that a go.
Retaining the lens adjustment rings is a very thin knurled brass ring/nut thing. A little eccentric screw stops it from turning. Mine was marked with red paint to show how far it should be done up. It's a good idea to do it up to the same place when reassembling otherwise the adjustment rings will be very stiff to turn.
If one takes what I'd call the `cam' ring off (don't know the right word, but it's a round plate with a whole lot of cut-outs that manipulate the little pins which control shutter speed), getting all the pins back in the cam cut-outs is a little fiddly. The hardest one (and least obvious) is the spring-loaded pin which acts as a detent and gives those `clicks' as you move between shutter speeds. You'll need a tiny screwdriver to push the pin back against its spring so it fits in the cam. Otherwise you'll put it all back together and the rings will simply glide between shutter speeds with no click.
On another note, the battery was very easy to sort, just bought a hearing-aid Zinc/Air 675 size ($NZ10 for 12 batteries, so never mind the reported 6 month lifetime). A little ring of insulated copper wire (not sure of the exact gauge but looks like about 2-3mm thick including insulation) to go around the outside of the battery to stop it moving around due to its smaller diameter. Battery is too thin to touch both the positive and negative terminal so I got some soft electrical solder and rolled it up into a coil which fit inside the battery lid perfectly. Took up enough room and the meter appears to work a treat.
bundok
Member
The Minister-D isn't on top of my list of restoration/repair-projects (I have already a fully working one and two in need of repair) but now you made me curious. I took my two broken ones and tried to follow your description but I only managed to unscrew the front lens element. At least on one camera. On the other one only the nameplate-ring got unscrewed and the front lens with the 'funnel' sits absolutely tight.
But what is the next step? What is the eccentric screw you are talking about, that stops that brass thing from turning? I poked and pushed everything in sight but nothing moved. Could you give me a hint?
For easier identification I put letters to these different holes and dents, so you can just refer to these letters.
But what is the next step? What is the eccentric screw you are talking about, that stops that brass thing from turning? I poked and pushed everything in sight but nothing moved. Could you give me a hint?
For easier identification I put letters to these different holes and dents, so you can just refer to these letters.
xwhatsit
Well-known
Ah! Well that's interesting. The `eccentric screw' I meant is labelled `D' in your picture. Mine is a little flathead screw with one side ground off, so you can turn it 180 degrees and this enables the knurled ring (labelled E) to be unscrewed anticlockwise. Has either mine or yours been modified?
I'll take my camera home this evening and take some shots with the digicam.
I'll take my camera home this evening and take some shots with the digicam.
bundok
Member
Hey, thanx for the hint! The ring (E) just came off! I forced it over the bump at D and then it unscrewed easily (I marked the correct position first). Although it is hard to see with the front lens still attached to it, it seems that my other Minister-D has that same eccentric screw like yours. That one has the serial number "T 16048 JAPAN" while the one with the bump has the serial number "H 133471". I think the latter one might be a version produced in Hong Kong (therefore the H in the serial number).
Now I have to find out how to reattach the little broken off and wedged in pin (F) to its original place.
But anyhow - thanx for your hint. Now I see what you were talking about. And now that the 'cam ring' has come off my broken shutter is working again. But when I reattach that plate the shutter only stays open as long as I push the shutter button. Hmmm. I guess I gotta fiddle around with this thing for a bit before I go to bed.
Now I have to find out how to reattach the little broken off and wedged in pin (F) to its original place.
But anyhow - thanx for your hint. Now I see what you were talking about. And now that the 'cam ring' has come off my broken shutter is working again. But when I reattach that plate the shutter only stays open as long as I push the shutter button. Hmmm. I guess I gotta fiddle around with this thing for a bit before I go to bed.
b1bmsgt
Yeah, I still use film...
I believe that early models have the eccentric screw, later models have the bump...
Russ
Russ
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xwhatsit
Well-known
Nice, yes, my serial is T 808682 and is marked Japan too.
While I was searching for the solution to my own shutter problem I came up with this post on another forum: http://www.kyphoto.com/classics/forum/messages/6900/4936.html It sounds like he had the same issue as you. If it happened to me I think I'd try the last post if the pin isn't salvageable (re-quoted here):
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]"Thanks
Replaced the pin with a 2mm threaded bolt ,cut its own thread ,works fine just kept threading it up
till it reached the hole the cut off the head and filed flat....." [/FONT]
Replaced the pin with a 2mm threaded bolt ,cut its own thread ,works fine just kept threading it up
till it reached the hole the cut off the head and filed flat....." [/FONT]
bundok
Member
In the model I opened there was no spring loaded ball detent, just a little dent in the brass ring. On my last picture you can see it from the other side at the three-o'clock-position.
Michael
bundok
Member
Thanx for the link, Tom! I think I will just do that. And I guess that will be an easier task than putting back together the eleven ring-like elements of the whole front element I just dissassembled. 
Michael
Michael
xwhatsit
Well-known
All right, so after applying some naphtha and exercising the shutter it seem to free up quite nicely. I waited a day or two for the thing to dry out and put the front lens group back on. Put a roll of film in it and took half a roll -- then after leaving it overnight the lens stuck again!
Googled a fair bit and learned how to remove film from the camera halfway through a roll; just kept winding until I heared a loudish `click', which was the leader popping out of the little slot. Later on I'll set it to 1/500 at f11 and keep winding and firing (with something to cap the lens) until I get back to frame 13.
Anyway, pulled the lens again and put some more naphtha on, immediately started working again. Dabbed on a bit more and left it to soak overnight. In the morning it was dry, but also stuck again. One more drop and it started working perfectly again.
I know some will tell me I have to dismantle the whole thing and clean the shutter blades individually; I want to avoid this for obvious reasons (might never get it back together properly again!) Does anyone share my optimism that if I keep pouring naphtha into the thing and working it it will finally come right?
One more thing -- I'm in New Zealand, we don't have something called `lighter fluid' that I can see, however in the local chandler they had some `smokeless lamp fluid', which claims to be 100% naphtha (which of course is a pretty generic term, hence my concern). I used some to clean my old glasses and it didn't leave any residue and evaporated pretty quickly so I'm reasonably sure I've got the right stuff.
Googled a fair bit and learned how to remove film from the camera halfway through a roll; just kept winding until I heared a loudish `click', which was the leader popping out of the little slot. Later on I'll set it to 1/500 at f11 and keep winding and firing (with something to cap the lens) until I get back to frame 13.
Anyway, pulled the lens again and put some more naphtha on, immediately started working again. Dabbed on a bit more and left it to soak overnight. In the morning it was dry, but also stuck again. One more drop and it started working perfectly again.
I know some will tell me I have to dismantle the whole thing and clean the shutter blades individually; I want to avoid this for obvious reasons (might never get it back together properly again!) Does anyone share my optimism that if I keep pouring naphtha into the thing and working it it will finally come right?
One more thing -- I'm in New Zealand, we don't have something called `lighter fluid' that I can see, however in the local chandler they had some `smokeless lamp fluid', which claims to be 100% naphtha (which of course is a pretty generic term, hence my concern). I used some to clean my old glasses and it didn't leave any residue and evaporated pretty quickly so I'm reasonably sure I've got the right stuff.
b1bmsgt
Yeah, I still use film...
My container of Ronsonol lighter fuel states that it is Naptha, so you should be good to go.
What I do when I flush out a lens is to spray it good with the fluid, work the shutter for a while, and then blow the shutter out with canned air. This seems to be more effective as it blows the junk away somewhat. Repeat this process a few times, being sure to get as much liquid out after the last flush. Then set it aside and let it dry out for a few days before reinstalling the lenses.
Good luck!
Russ
What I do when I flush out a lens is to spray it good with the fluid, work the shutter for a while, and then blow the shutter out with canned air. This seems to be more effective as it blows the junk away somewhat. Repeat this process a few times, being sure to get as much liquid out after the last flush. Then set it aside and let it dry out for a few days before reinstalling the lenses.
Good luck!
Russ
xwhatsit
Well-known
Cheers, might flog a can of compressed air then. Won't use my compressor, I've seen the crap that comes out of it, and it might be a bit powerful You take the rear lens group out too? I suppose since you're doing a full CLA you'd have most of the camera apart anyway.
Appreciate the advice, thanks very much,
-Tom
You take the rear lens group out too? I suppose since you're doing a full CLA you'd have most of the camera apart anyway.Appreciate the advice, thanks very much,
-Tom
b1bmsgt
Yeah, I still use film...
Ideally, you would have the rear element out as well. If not, you will have to clean the front of the rear element from the front of the camera by setting the shutter to "B" and going through the open shutter while holding the shutter release down. Just make sure there aren't any fibers from your Q Tip stuck in the shutter when you're done.
Russ
Russ
btgc
Veteran
Naphtha softens residue on shutter blades thus making tension weaker, but trick is to clean blades. You can do it taking shutter apart completely, and can try easier ways.
xwhatsit
Well-known
So I'm still fiddling with this thing.
It sticks up after I let it dry.
I went to the local hardware store today and purchased some Zippo refill; it smells different to the naphtha I bought before. I think I read that naphtha is a generic name for dozens of different compounds; whilst I've read lots of stories about `naphtha' and `lighter fluid' being used, I can't necessarily find an exact substitute; however, I've heard of Zippo refill being used plenty of times so I'll try it now.
It seems to flash off faster, and also leave the shutter stuck faster. Should I be seeing a bluey/purpley `oil slick' like sheen on the shutter blades when applying the fluid? Is this the fluid itself or a sign that there's oil or grease on the blades?
I think I would quite like to get the rear lens element out. I see two rings with notches in them at the back; I think I'll have to fashion some sort of tool myself for these two rings. Must both of them be removed, or should I just pick one?
Thanks once again. I'm becoming more and more determined to get this camera sorted!
It sticks up after I let it dry.
I went to the local hardware store today and purchased some Zippo refill; it smells different to the naphtha I bought before. I think I read that naphtha is a generic name for dozens of different compounds; whilst I've read lots of stories about `naphtha' and `lighter fluid' being used, I can't necessarily find an exact substitute; however, I've heard of Zippo refill being used plenty of times so I'll try it now.
It seems to flash off faster, and also leave the shutter stuck faster. Should I be seeing a bluey/purpley `oil slick' like sheen on the shutter blades when applying the fluid? Is this the fluid itself or a sign that there's oil or grease on the blades?
I think I would quite like to get the rear lens element out. I see two rings with notches in them at the back; I think I'll have to fashion some sort of tool myself for these two rings. Must both of them be removed, or should I just pick one?
Thanks once again. I'm becoming more and more determined to get this camera sorted!
b1bmsgt
Yeah, I still use film...
The inner ring retains the individual rear lens element. You don't want to remove that! The outer one will remove the group. Usually they're not overly tight...
Russ
Russ
xwhatsit
Well-known
Ah, thank-you very much. I read something here about another camera (maybe just a lens?) with three rings and you were only supposed to remove one for the same reason, hence me asking here!
Cheers, really appreciate the help.
xwhatsit
Well-known
Well patience would seem to pay off (so far! Fingers crossed). Didn't take rear lens group off as I haven't made the time to travel to my work's factory warehouse thing where I can use a nice grinder (want to make a good lens spanner). However I bought a new box of 240 q-tips and have religiously been Zippo-ing and swabbing the shutter night after night. Most times it simply stuck up after a few minutes when dry but for it has now been OK for a day and a bit, despite it drying out and `shooting' `roll' after `roll'.
I used a toothpick with shutter on B to stop the shutter blades from closing completely so I could get at a little more surface area.
My theory is, is that some numpty has been inside and oiled the clockwork. I was then over-zealous with my Zippo-ing and this meant oil kept seeping out onto the blades. I must've nearly got rid of it so it's happy now. Well, interestingly, the 1 second shutter speed has increased from an almost perfect 1 second to a 1.2 seconds (still within spec, though, right?), and the 1/2 speed is really about 0.6 seconds. I think this might be because of the clockwork being degreased a bit? Don't really feel like applying any more oil though, if 1.2 seconds and 0.6 seconds is considered OK then it's better that than another oily shutter problem.
Actually, I think the true reason is that I just bought a second camera -- a Yashica Electro G (I think, seller wasn't too clear). $NZ38.50 (about $US25). I've seen this before with my motorcycles, they get jealous and needy when you bring a new one along or spend too much time with the others.
They shouldn't sell these things so cheap, I'm developing a habit. I've just spied a Yashica Lynx 1000, current bid is $4.50. Looks a bit rough but I'm feeling over-confident now. The one that is really pushing my buttons though is the Petri Color 35 at $12.50... what an adorable little thing.
I used a toothpick with shutter on B to stop the shutter blades from closing completely so I could get at a little more surface area.
My theory is, is that some numpty has been inside and oiled the clockwork. I was then over-zealous with my Zippo-ing and this meant oil kept seeping out onto the blades. I must've nearly got rid of it so it's happy now. Well, interestingly, the 1 second shutter speed has increased from an almost perfect 1 second to a 1.2 seconds (still within spec, though, right?), and the 1/2 speed is really about 0.6 seconds. I think this might be because of the clockwork being degreased a bit? Don't really feel like applying any more oil though, if 1.2 seconds and 0.6 seconds is considered OK then it's better that than another oily shutter problem.
Actually, I think the true reason is that I just bought a second camera -- a Yashica Electro G (I think, seller wasn't too clear). $NZ38.50 (about $US25). I've seen this before with my motorcycles, they get jealous and needy when you bring a new one along or spend too much time with the others.
They shouldn't sell these things so cheap, I'm developing a habit. I've just spied a Yashica Lynx 1000, current bid is $4.50. Looks a bit rough but I'm feeling over-confident now. The one that is really pushing my buttons though is the Petri Color 35 at $12.50... what an adorable little thing.
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