Press Release: Agfa is committed to film

[HHPhoto]

Hi,

in a press release Agfa-Gevaert say they are 100% committed to film production:

http://www.aphog.de/forum/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=13329

They are committed to maintain their production in various film segments and continue to produce film in segments, in which other manufacturers have discontinued products.

The Agfa film production is 1 million m² every day (!). That means they are producing more film per day than Ilford per year ( according to a statement by Simon Galley of Ilford; by the way 1 m² is equivalent to about 14 36exp. 135 films).

Cheers,
Jan

 

[ZeissFan]

My German is very poor -- limited to "good day," "good morning," "please," "one beer, please" and "eat."

Any chance of giving us a rough translation and how this came to be posted on that forum?

It's great news for those of us who use the Agfa products. Unless this is another April Fool's Day post, of course.

 

[HHPhoto]

My German is very poor -- limited to "good day," "good morning," "please," "one beer, please" and "eat."

Any chance of giving us a rough translation and how this came to be posted on that forum?

It's great news for those of us who use the Agfa products. Unless this is another April Fool's Day post, of course.

Dear Mike,

no, it is definitely not an April Fool's day post. This press release was first published at the beginning of march.

Why it was posted on that forum? Aphog is the leading german photo forum (there are more than 12 different forums for film photographers in Germany), and the poster is from Maco Photo Products, the company which is license holder of the Rollei-Film brand. And most of the Rollei films are made by Agfa-Gevaert.

Translation: The most important information is already in my post. In the original is little bit more detail, like that Agfa is producing film for e.g. medecine and graphic tasks (afaik Agfa has bought Kodaks graphic film department some years ago).
And they say that Agfa will be a reliable film producer and partner for their film customers for the future.

Cheers,
Jan

 

[batterytypehah!]

Here's a full translation:

You may rest assured that AGFA's strategy is to continue global film production and to put effort into this segment as other companies decide to withdraw from it.

Indeed, some of our competitors have already withdrawn from application areas of varying importance within the film industry.

AGFA is one of the last remaining film manufacturers still supplying industries as diverse as graphic design, healthcare, and several other film segments.

Production is above 1 million square meters per day.

You may continue to count on AGFA as a reliable manufacturer of high quality products.

We hope and trust to be your reliable business partner in the future.

Please do not hesitate to contact us with any questions you may have in this regard.

And ZeissFan, you have almost all the German you need. But just one beer? Thought you were a more social fellow than that 😀

 

[retro]

Here it is on the Agfa site:
http://www.agfa.com/en/sp/news_events/news/MAT_20100303_PCB_Commitment_EN.jsp

 

[mervynyan]

AGX400 is OK, as long as it is cheap.

 

[ZeissFan]

That's welcome news for us Agfa film users. I've been shooting some Adox film lately, so it will be nice to welcome back some old friends. My cameras will like it, too.

 

[Pickett Wilson]

Actually, this news release is about Agfa's commitment to the PCB film market. It's one of the last makers of film for creating PCB boards. I'm not sure how much it applies to the film we use.

 

[Gregoryniss]

I hope this also includes the production rodinal!

 

[jan normandale]

Actually, this news release is about Agfa's commitment to the PCB film market. It's one of the last makers of film for creating PCB boards. I'm not sure how much it applies to the film we use.

@PW.. I have no idea what PCB film is all about. Edify/update me on this as it applies to the PCB film industry they are supplying and Agfa's film which isn't PCB but for "photography with a camera film" that readers here at RFF discuss.

thanks!

 

[btgc]

After reading volume per day comparison to Ilford's figures, I suspected Agfa is going to bury planet under APX 🙂

Pickett Wilson notes three letters which matter.

 

[HHPhoto]

Actually, this news release is about Agfa's commitment to the PCB film market. It's one of the last makers of film for creating PCB boards. I'm not sure how much it applies to the film we use.

It is clearly said in the release that Agfa is committed to all their different film products and film production in general.
And I am convinced that Mr. Junghans of Maco Photo Products / Rollei-Film has posted the translation because Agfa has assured its customer Maco that Agfa will continue to produce aerial, microfilm and graphic film, which are the base of Rollei-Film products.

Cheers,
Jan

 

[rxmd]

Aphog is the leading german photo forum (there are more than 12 different forums for film photographers in Germany),

I wouldn't call any German film forum "leading". German film forums are a bit of a mess, there is a lot of ridiculous infighting and bickering, sponsorship issues, rampant moderators etc. going on. APHOG is one of the more vocal forums, but that's about it. It's a bit of a problem, because as everywhere else for one competent person you get ten who are semi-competent, but just as vocal.

German photo forums are a bit like a city which has 12 different dachshund clubs. You don't get better dogs or more competent breeders as a result. Instead, you get a lot of infighting, people calling each other names, people who won't talk to each other and waste a lot of energy. For newbies it can be a deterrent.

the poster is from Maco Photo Products, the company which is license holder of the Rollei-Film brand. And most of the Rollei films are made by Agfa-Gevaert.

Translation: The most important information is already in my post. In the original is little bit more detail, like that Agfa is producing film for e.g. medecine and graphic tasks (afaik Agfa has bought Kodaks graphic film department some years ago). [...] And they say that Agfa will be a reliable film producer and partner for their film customers for the future.

Yes. The problem is that words such as "photography" appear nowhere in the article. Graphic film includes the PCB films mentioned by Pickett Wilson (films used for making computer circuit boards). Note that these are not imaging applications in our sense of the word. This, and X-ray film to some extent, are huge markets, but they have absolutely nothing to do with film photography. "Film customer" here does not necessarily mean "photography customer".

Photographic film is a niche for Agfa. Many of the films sold by resellers under the Rollei brandname are repackaged Agfa traffic surveillance and microfilms. It's nice that people find creative ways to take pictures of stuff on existing films, but it's not like the 3 people photographing on traffic film will keep traffic film alive if there's a large-scale shift to take traffic pictures on some other medium. Of course Maco is going to tell people that their market is secure, after all Maco depends on that market.

 

[rxmd]

Pickett Wilson is spot on. Here's the original press release on the Agfa page: English link, German link. Title "Agfa remains committed to PCB film market"

This has nothing to do with photography and all with people in the electronics industry being worried that Agfa will stop making film for them.

Of course Agfa will say that they are committed to all their film markets. Are they going to say "yes, PCB guys, rest assured that we're committed to YOUR film, as opposed to the other films we're not as committed to"?

Whoever posted the press release on APHOG, whether Junghans of Maco or anyone else, simply left out the key paragraphs when quoting the press release, so that it sounded more like it had to do with photography.

 

[HHPhoto]

Dear Phillip,

I wouldn't call any German film forum "leading". German film forums are a bit of a mess, there is a lot of ridiculous infighting and bickering, sponsorship issues, rampant moderators etc. going on. APHOG is one of the more vocal forums, but that's about it. It's a bit of a problem, because as everywhere else for one competent person you get ten who are semi-competent, but just as vocal.

German photo forums are a bit like a city which has 12 different dachshund clubs. You don't get better dogs or more competent breeders as a result. Instead, you get a lot of infighting, people calling each other names, people who won't talk to each other and waste a lot of energy. For newbies it can be a deterrent.

I see your point, and partly can agree. But considering all disadvantages as well, aphog is by far the forum with most competent participants. Significantly better than the other ones (nevertheless I am not registered there ;-) ).

Yes. The problem is that words such as "photography" appear nowhere in the article. Graphic film includes the PCB films mentioned by Pickett Wilson (films used for making computer circuit boards). Note that these are not imaging applications in our sense of the word. This, and X-ray film to some extent, are huge markets, but they have absolutely nothing to do with film photography. "Film customer" here does not necessarily mean "photography customer".

But they are related to and important for film photographers because of R&D crossovers, and running the coating lines at full capacity.

Photographic film is a niche for Agfa.

No, that's wrong. I have had some talks about that with people from the photo industry at Photokina 2008. Aerial and microfilm are essential parts of Agfas film production with lots of millions of m² production volume.

Many of the films sold by resellers under the Rollei brandname are repackaged Agfa traffic surveillance

That's wrong. Current Agfa film in 135, 127, 120, 4x5" photo formats is only available as Rollei Film, not from other companies.
And the Rollei films are not traffic surveillance films, but most of it are aerial films (e.g. Agfa Aviphot Pan 80, 200 and 400).

Cheers,
Jan

 

[petronius]

OT on:

German photo forums are a bit like a city which has 12 different dachshund clubs. You don't get better dogs or more competent breeders as a result. Instead, you get a lot of infighting, people calling each other names, people who won't talk to each other and waste a lot of energy. For newbies it can be a deterrent.

This is a brilliant conclusion and the reason why I hang out here!

OT off

 

[rxmd]

I see your point, and partly can agree. But considering all disadvantages as well, aphog is by far the forum with most competent participants. Significantly better than the other ones (nevertheless I am not registered there ;-) ).

That's fine, everybody has their taste and the places they hang out. I don't care much.

I have had some talks about that with people from the photo industry at Photokina 2008. Aerial and microfilm are essential parts of Agfas film production with lots of millions of m² production volume.

Well it's not like they'll tell people anything else at a photo fair, it's a PR operation after all. And microfilm is, well, microfilm; using it as photographic film is probably such a niche-within-a-niche that it is completely irrelevant quantity-wise.

That's wrong. Current Agfa film in 135, 127, 120, 4x5" photo formats is only available as Rollei Film, not from other companies.
And the Rollei films are not traffic surveillance films, but most of it are aerial films (e.g. Agfa Aviphot Pan 80, 200 and 400).

The one I meant was R3. They're discontinuing it now - did so quite a while ago in 120, and now in 135 as well. When they started offering it it was the first film for which Maco used the Rollei brandname if I remember correctly. Bit of a weird film, but it had its fans. They started repackaging a lot of other films lately, and it feels like the names are changing every other day. It's quite confusing.

 

[venchka]

When A-G commits to producing APX25 & APX100 in medium and large format give us a buzz.

 

[HHPhoto]

Hi Phillip,

Well it's not like they'll tell people anything else at a photo fair, it's a PR operation after all.

No, it has nothing to do with PR, because I got the information also from companies working in the same segments as Agfa. They know their market, the numbers and their competitors.

And microfilm is, well, microfilm; using it as photographic film is probably such a niche-within-a-niche that it is completely irrelevant quantity-wise.

Sorry, that is wrong. You don't know this market.
E.g. german government is using Agfa microfilm for long term storage of pictures (not only of documents).

Another example: During the second world war the American and especially British airforce made millions of aerial photos of towns and plants in Germany.
Experts say that Germany is still the best documented country worldwide by aerial photography.

These photos are still regularly used by german government for supporting search for bombs, which had not exploded and are still lying in the earth ("Blindgänger").
The problem with these original photos is that one part is degrading (not proper processed or fixed at that time), and one part is on nitro film.

All these millions of photos therefore will be copied on archival PET aerial film.
Millions of square meters are needed for this long term project.
The film which is used for that purpose is Agfa-Gevaert Aviphot Pan 80 (= Rollei Superpan 80S).

The one I meant was R3. They're discontinuing it now - did so quite a while ago in 120, and now in 135 as well. When they started offering it it was the first film for which Maco used the Rollei brandname if I remember correctly. Bit of a weird film, but it had its fans. They started repackaging a lot of other films lately, and it feels like the names are changing every other day. It's quite confusing.

Sorry, but the R3 has absolutely nothing to do with Agfa, because this film was produced by Filmotec.

And there are no confusing name changes at Rollei. Retro 400 (=last stock of Agfa Leverkusen production of APX 400) has now a successor called Retro 400 S, and at the introduction it was clearly said that this film is fresh production from Agfa Gevaerts Aviphot Pan film line.

Cheers,
Jan

 

[rxmd]

using it as photographic film is probably such a niche-within-a-niche that it is completely irrelevant quantity-wise.

Sorry, that is wrong. You don't know this market. E.g. german government is using Agfa microfilm for long term storage of pictures (not only of documents).

Yes.

What I mean when I speak of "photographic film", however, is putting the film in a camera and using it to shoot pictures. People do this with microfilm, too, but it's a pretty irrelevant niche nevertheless 🙂

On the other hand, it's a niche I'm personally much more interested in than millions of square meters of PCB film (because it produces pictures in the end).

Sorry, but the R3 has absolutely nothing to do with Agfa, because this film was produced by Filmotec. And there are no confusing name changes at Rollei. Retro 400 (=last stock of Agfa Leverkusen production of APX 400) has now a successor called Retro 400 S, and at the introduction it was clearly said that this film is fresh production from Agfa Gevaerts Aviphot Pan film line.

Yeah, that's exactly what I find confusing. It's probably just me. If you're in a home lab and you try to stick with film stock that you know, and then the reseller comes and adds a little letter to the name and puts an entirely different film in the box, which behaves completely differently, I find it confusing and unnecessary. If it's a completely different product, just give it a different name, for God's sake. I don't have to be right, I just want people to understand me. Regarding who makes R3, frankly I didn't know, nor do I care much. I never used the film, I just lumped it together with some of the microfilms that I have been using. So, you're right, I'm wrong, granted, whatever, done.

This kind of discussion I find extremely tedious, so I'll leave it at that. You get these three or four German film forums full of nerds, who can discuss for weeks on end on what material is in which boxes, everybody has insider knowledge from obscure telephone calls and booth chats at photo fairs, people calls a company by their name (always Mortsel/Wolfen/Stapelfeld/Berlin instead of Agfa/Filmotec/Maco/Fotoimpex etc.), and everything becomes a moral discussion on what companies are right and which resellers are wrong. Just like being in the wrong dog club. In club A they will slit your tyres if you use a B brand collar on your dachshund, and in club B they will kick you out if you say a good word about the founder of A. I used to hang around there myself a fair bit (unlike you, I do have an account on Aphog, as well as three or so other German forums) and at present I've pretty much stopped, except for one where I write a comment or question every now and then. Like petronius, I hang out at RFF precisely because I don't get that here.