Carl Zeiss LTM Zeiss Lenses in Leica Screw Mount - info?

[CameraQuest]

Are there any good reference sources for Zeiss lenses in Leica screw mount?

The last info I have is their origins were much in debate by Zeiss experts. The issue seems to be whether or not some (or all) were Zeiss factory issue or Ruskie issue after the war from war booty parts.

Stephen

 

[johannielscom]

Stephen,

you can have a look in at the 'Finally,...Sonnar...' thread LeicaTom started in the Leica LTM forum. There's lotsa info on original and Russian Sonnars there.

Also see the Sonnar page at taunusreiter.de.

I'm not sure whether Zeiss ever made any other focal lengths in thread mount. I do occasionally see very nice Schneider Kreuznach 35mm lenses in LTM on eBay.

Hope this helps a bit?!

 

[CameraQuest]

there is an excellent discussion here
http://photo.net/leica-rangefinders-forum/00AwhI

apparently many LTM Zeiss lenses are of dubious heritage. But the problem remains how to tell the real from the fake.

the Hartmut Thiele list Zeiss serial numbers may be the best way.

I just picked up a set of Zeiss LTM lenses: 35/2.8, 50/2, 50/1.5 and 85/2. Today they go to the tech for cleaning.

Stephen

 

[morback]

Funny, I have a CZJ 50/1.5 coming my way, "authentic" according to the seller...We'll se the performance...

I've been reading everything I could find on the web about it, and it's not much...All very contradictory, but apparently there was a batch made during wartime for the German Army to relieve Leitz.

That's one story...

 

[rlouzan]

Stephen,

Ask Marc James Small

Regards,
RLouzan

 

[radi(c)al_cam]

I'm not sure whether Zeiss ever made any other focal lengths in thread mount. I do occasionally see very nice Schneider Kreuznach 35mm lenses in LTM on eBay.

I know of:

Carl Zeiss Jena 4,5cm/2 Biotar, Nr. 1364xxx, year: 1936

Carl Zeiss Jena f. M39 13,5cm/4 Triotar, Nr. 3124xxx, year: 1948

Carl Zeiss Jena f. M39 13,5cm/4,5 Tessar, Nr. 241xxx, year: nda

Carl Zeiss Jena f. M39 4/13,5cm T Sonnar, Nr. 2712xxx, year: 1943

Carl Zeiss Jena f. M39 5cm/2 Sonnar T, Nr. 3059xxx, year: c.1947

Carl Zeiss Jena f. M39 8,5cm/2 Sonnar T, Nr. 2771xxx, year: 1946

Carl Zeiss Jena f. M39 8cm/2,7 Tessar, Nr. 659xxx, year: c.1927 (well, quite certain a conversion)

 

[David Hughes]

I've small collection of 1930's magazines and Zeiss lenses often appear for Leica 39mm screw mount cameras in the classified adverts, new and second-hand. So it looks as though a lot of people have been having the same idea for a long time. And Zeiss lenses weren't the only ones...

 

[David Hughes]

It's not a Zeiss in a Leica mount but just look at this....

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/HUGO-MEYER-KI...y_VintagePhotoAccessories?hash=item563b5ec010

Regards, David

 

[jmkelly]

Stephan Van den Zegel who is a member here has plenty of experience with "transitional" Zeiss lenses in LTM. Marc James Small wrote "Non-Leitz LEICA Thread-Mount Lenses" - I don't know that it is still in print but check with Camerabooks of you are interested.

 

[photovdz]

sorry was out of the game for some time, but i heard some whistling (mes oreilles sifflent.. as we say in french).

so to my partial knowledge :
- prewar lenses : no factory conversions known... but some private conversions exists (see my f2 sonnar)
- wartime lenses : factory production exists at least in biogon 3,5, Sonnar 5 f2 and f1,5, and 8,5 f2... sonnar 5 cm are not so rare... 3,5 and 8,5 are very rare... all lenses are T coated. Thiele is not of great use to tell if lens is genuine since the conversion to LTM seems to have been done in a different workshop from production lenses blocks...
There is a real "grey" period at the end of the war (surely after the bombing of Dresden), and it's difficult to tell if any lens above 2800000 have been finished in LTM (there is a document stating that a set of one leica and 3 lenses kit where "officialised" to an american officer in june 1945 with lenses in the 2850000 bracket... but this doesn't mean that all were finished before the war)... it's also possible to find lenses of thoses batches in various state of finition ... got one without DOF scale for instance and another one within 20 serial numbers that is perfectly finished and perfectly kosher (came with an "officialised" RC leica IIIc)...
Brian Sweeney (hello Brian) seems to have developped a theory that i support that allows to determine the genuineness of the 1,5 sonnar based on details of the mount (two, of three screws, and localisation of the screws)...
There is also a serie of totally bizarre LTM mount sonnars (5/1,5 and 8,5/2) with non zeiss fonts engravings... very very rare... I think that it was an attempt from a remote workshop to realise some pieces with stock optical blocks after the Dresden bombing but before the end of the war...)
All LTM zeiss wartime lenses are coated... and it opens the hypothesis that it was military production... zeiss lenses where better coated, and far more luminous than their leitz counterparts...

Post war production
there is a potential production (pre 3000000) at the very end of the war... but nothing is clear
Then there is the transfer of the Zeiss factory to Kiev... and the development of the jupiter line... but basically early ZK and BK lenses are Zeiss design and similar to wartime LTM... then progressively they turn to jup's with improvement of the LTM mount system specially for the ZK... as the original Zeiss ltm coupling was fragile and difficult to set perfectly.

Now how to see if a lens is genuine...

All Zeiss lenses in LTM in heavy metal mount are supposed kosher... (and when I say heavy it's heavy)
All Zeiss lenses in LTM with a Zeiss number matching on the rear optical block and on the front ring are supposed kosher... at least the glass is original)
Lenses without zeiss number on the glass barrel are totally dubious...

so get your spanner wrench and see

(stephen, could you send me pictures of your kit ... seems quite interesting)


The late Charlie Barringer could have been more informed than I am... but sadly we miss him really...

 

[photovdz]

it's not a dangerous operation... with a good spanner wrench...(except on the 85/2 where I won't touch anything without a good technician)

 

[wjlapier]

Saw a 21/4.5 in LTM at the Westlicht auction last year or year before.

 

[photovdz]

strange enough my best found were never expensive...

 

[Sonnar Brian]

On the Carl Zeiss Jena 5cm F1.5 "T": there are hidden set screws on the optics module. One is obvious once the module is out of the focus mount, hols the rear module in. The other requires taking off the variable stand-off ring, taking out the screw that holds links the aperture, and removing the aperture ring mechanism (the cone). A hidden set screw holds in the nameting. You will destroy the namering if you do not remove the set screw, so look for it on any 5cm F1.5 "T" lens. My 269 Contax mount Sonnar, 272 LTM sonnar and 285 LTM Sonnar all this hidden set screw. The "Dubious" later 285's and ZK Sonnars did not have the hidden set screw. My SPECULATION: Geman engineering simplified in Russia.