Robert Hooper
Established
Is it my imagination, or are used Rangefinder film cameras, and especially M lenses starting to significantly rise in price on-line lately? If my observation is correct, what could possibly account for this phenomenon?
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nobbylon
Veteran
Robert, lenses are always going to rise in price I believe due to the m8 and m9. 35's especially now due to the m9. Film M's seem to stabilise at a certain level and then fluctuate around that.
nobbylon
Veteran
As far as film bodies go my experiences so far seem to indicate that decent usable M bodies are in the order of
M2 £400-450
M4 £500-600
M6 £600-800
M6ttl £700-850
The above is just my experience of seeing what's bought and sold here and also what I've had in the past. Obviously mint gear goes at the higher end and perhaps more and user gear with plenty of scuffs and the odd dent a bit less.
The lenses I've noticed in particular on the rise are 35 and 50 summicrons and lux's of any vintage but it seems that a lot of people are now hunting out the older glass to use on digital.
M2 £400-450
M4 £500-600
M6 £600-800
M6ttl £700-850
The above is just my experience of seeing what's bought and sold here and also what I've had in the past. Obviously mint gear goes at the higher end and perhaps more and user gear with plenty of scuffs and the odd dent a bit less.
The lenses I've noticed in particular on the rise are 35 and 50 summicrons and lux's of any vintage but it seems that a lot of people are now hunting out the older glass to use on digital.
john neal
fallor ergo sum
I think nobbylon is right. Sometimes a particular body or lens will get popular due to either rumour or the work of a small no of photogs, e.g. the M3 or the 4th version of the 35mm Summicron, but once a camera model is well established prices tend to settle down within a known range.
The digital M's are definitely the cause of BIN prices being hiked on that well known video game - just check out the wording of the ads.
The digital M's are definitely the cause of BIN prices being hiked on that well known video game - just check out the wording of the ads.
Jodorowsky
Well-known
It's getting a bit silly, and I can only suggest that it's collectors pushing up the price. A couple of years ago, people were a bit sniffy about M6ttl's vs the M6 'classic' (not my apostrophes I think cameras are cameras, not cars or wristwatches), but I see ttl's being offered for ridiculous amounts of money. And M5's are fetching more than M6's sometimes. Ridiculous. I sold my M body a few years ago to fund the M8, which i still have and love. A desire to use my Leica lenses for film has had me hunting around until I bought a Hexar RF in great condition for £450. The camera is around 9 years old; I could have bought a beat up M3 for that, probably, but no thanks...
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Roger Hicks
Veteran
Prices always go up when you're looking to buy, and down when you're looking to sell. Law of nature.
Collectors? Probably not. People who can afford multiple cameras and don't always use all of them a great deal? More likely, in my book.
And M5 users are so evangelical that maybe the beastly things are actually selling to users (dons flameproof suit). For the humour-impaired, THAT WAS A JOKE.
Cheers,
R.
Collectors? Probably not. People who can afford multiple cameras and don't always use all of them a great deal? More likely, in my book.
And M5 users are so evangelical that maybe the beastly things are actually selling to users (dons flameproof suit). For the humour-impaired, THAT WAS A JOKE.
Cheers,
R.
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Jodorowsky
Well-known
My regret at selling my ttl a couple of years ago was not due to the loss of the little battery eater, but who I sold it to. The arrogant little fellow messed me around so much that I had to have several email conversations with him; during one, he told me that he had half a dozen M6's. Fair enough, but I just know that the camera is now sitting on a shelf in his office. Which, for some reason, irks me.... I'm perversely happy that my M8 and now Hexar aren't regarded as 'classics'. Yet.
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jarski
Veteran
for digital users, M9 brought common 50mm back to its normal spec. it might have been considered a bit narrow by M8 and RD1 users. this might have increased demand (and lift prices) a bit ? although price of M9 still scares most of potential buyers away.
raytoei@gmail.com
Veteran
I noticed this too, since I am fairly active.
I put this down to lots of excitment over the M9 and S2 and X1 causing people to buy Leicas and the Micro 4/3 folks jumping onto the Leica Lens PLUS lots of Asian buyers bidding up the price.
Too bad the Leica Reflex aren't holding in price, the R4 and R5 ha dropped to R3 levels. Even the Summicron-r is 1/2 the price of the Summi-Ms.
raytoei
I put this down to lots of excitment over the M9 and S2 and X1 causing people to buy Leicas and the Micro 4/3 folks jumping onto the Leica Lens PLUS lots of Asian buyers bidding up the price.
Too bad the Leica Reflex aren't holding in price, the R4 and R5 ha dropped to R3 levels. Even the Summicron-r is 1/2 the price of the Summi-Ms.
raytoei
nobbylon
Veteran
Even though the price of the M9 is high, I think it's probably putting people in the mindset that full frame RF although still in infancy, will become the norm in the future and probably by other manufacturers too. Progress is inevitable and I would think that due to digital's progressive nature that cheaper options on bodies will turn up. The recent price rises are, I believe, peoples perceived future value on said lenses.
Pat Donnelly
Member
Lenses up?
Lenses up?
Investors. Buy something useful, that you think will go up in price and that you can verify as the real deal and not a forgery. It is a hedge. With 2,000,000,000 newly better off citizens of the world over the last ten and next thirty years, the boom in photos will only steepen. Anything expensive and scarce now will be even more so then. I dream of buying some gear. Maybe some day, but meanwhile life and photos go on! Even at the range where I buy, prices are rising.
Lenses up?
Investors. Buy something useful, that you think will go up in price and that you can verify as the real deal and not a forgery. It is a hedge. With 2,000,000,000 newly better off citizens of the world over the last ten and next thirty years, the boom in photos will only steepen. Anything expensive and scarce now will be even more so then. I dream of buying some gear. Maybe some day, but meanwhile life and photos go on! Even at the range where I buy, prices are rising.
I think investors learned that camera gear is not a good investment. The guy that payed $25K for a black Nikon SP learned that lesson.
Prices for used Leica gear is lower now that it was in the early 90s. It seemed to hit bottom a couple of years ago. Prices of film bodies rising? There are good bargains here in the classified and elsewhere.
Lens prices are on the increase, I've noticed that. Probably M8, M9, and mu-4/3 creating more demand. That and new photographers that grew up using digital, becoming interested in the field, and wanting to try film. I've known some college-age young photographers wanting to use film. Several of them received free cameras.
Prices for used Leica gear is lower now that it was in the early 90s. It seemed to hit bottom a couple of years ago. Prices of film bodies rising? There are good bargains here in the classified and elsewhere.
Lens prices are on the increase, I've noticed that. Probably M8, M9, and mu-4/3 creating more demand. That and new photographers that grew up using digital, becoming interested in the field, and wanting to try film. I've known some college-age young photographers wanting to use film. Several of them received free cameras.
Tim Gray
Well-known
New prices have also gone up a lot. A new 28/2 is $4300 from B&H. In 2002 it was $2100.
re_visible
Addicted
Actually, i found that prices for used (not prefect, boxed, new) Leica equipment have gone down here in Switzerland, based on what i have seen at local auction sites, and on the "used equipment" lists of bigger camera stores. That made the M4/M6 available for me.
A very nice, serviced M6 can be found for 1000.- Swiss francs, a nice Summicron 35mm for bout 500.- A M Tele Elamrit for 300.-
It used to be at least 20-30% more one year ago.
Up are only the prices for boxed and never used ones, and perhapse for 50mm lenses.
So i think if you see movement upwards, it is only the collectors (mostly Asia) and M9 users (so are there more of them around than I expected?)
A very nice, serviced M6 can be found for 1000.- Swiss francs, a nice Summicron 35mm for bout 500.- A M Tele Elamrit for 300.-
It used to be at least 20-30% more one year ago.
Up are only the prices for boxed and never used ones, and perhapse for 50mm lenses.
So i think if you see movement upwards, it is only the collectors (mostly Asia) and M9 users (so are there more of them around than I expected?)
cidereye
Film Freak
Lens prices have risen quite a bit the last year no doubt, I don't think it's solely down to things like the new M9 though. The new micro 4/3 cameras and various lens adapters surely must have had a large impact on people looking to buy S/H Leica glass.