bwidjaja
Warung Photo
Price aside, any thoughts between the two?
I kind of like Certo Six because of the f2.8 lens, but not sure if 1/2 stop really makes a big difference.
Thank you
Berhen
I kind of like Certo Six because of the f2.8 lens, but not sure if 1/2 stop really makes a big difference.
Thank you
Berhen
charjohncarter
Veteran
You have to decide on upkeep. I like my Isolette II, I have two, but I had to change both bellows. I know the Super Isolette has a better bellows record but I still would check it out. 1/2 a stop is not much so look for what you really want and if it is going to be a maintenance problem that you don't want to deal with, that is you choice. I have five folders, 2 Isolettes, a Balda Hapo 66e, a Solinette, and a First Six. Of the five the cheap and cheaply made First Six with the lousy lens is my favorite: no maintenance, no repairs, and crazy pictures:
Steve M.
Veteran
The 1/2 stop difference on the lenses will have no practical effect. I never owned a Certo Six but I had a Super Isolette and the build quality was great. It needed a bellows though, as John pointed out in his post. But that wouldn't prevent me from buying one if i wanted one. Just get a new bellows put on it. You may want to go to flickr and see if you can scare up some sample images and see which lens you prefer.
However, if it were me I would go for a Super Ikonta III, IV, or even one of the much heavier 533/16's w/ the strap lugs. The Ikontas nearly never need bellows replacement, and the build quality and overall construction is bullet proof. I'm a sucker for a good Tessar lens too, but all of the cameras we're talking about have outstanding optics. I especially like the bright rangefinder focus patch on my IV (the 533/16 is a smaller, dimmer patch) and the smooth film advance w/ no need for a red window. I had John over at Focal Point Optics remove the annoying shutter/aperture interlock and the camera is a dream to use.
However, if it were me I would go for a Super Ikonta III, IV, or even one of the much heavier 533/16's w/ the strap lugs. The Ikontas nearly never need bellows replacement, and the build quality and overall construction is bullet proof. I'm a sucker for a good Tessar lens too, but all of the cameras we're talking about have outstanding optics. I especially like the bright rangefinder focus patch on my IV (the 533/16 is a smaller, dimmer patch) and the smooth film advance w/ no need for a red window. I had John over at Focal Point Optics remove the annoying shutter/aperture interlock and the camera is a dream to use.
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bwidjaja
Warung Photo
Thanks for the information. John, I am planning to get the folder from Jurgen at certo6 . com so I am not concerned on the condition. Steve, thanks for the recommendation. I already have Zeiss Super Ikonta C (6x9), hence I was thinking of branching out. But given the solid built of Zeiss, I might consider the Super Ikonta IV. I will definitely check out flickr for some pics.
P C Headland
Well-known
The Certo Six is a very well built camera with one of the best lenses you can get on an old folder. I feel it is better built than the Super Ikonta III / IV. The lens is parallax corrected too. Having a 40.5mm filter thread is very handy.
The main area to check with them is the condition of the RF "mirrors". If this has been sorted, then you should be fine. The film wind mechanism works well and does not suffer the problems that can afflict the Super Isolette or its FSU cousin. The shutter interlock has an over-ride switch should you need, and there is a little indicator that shows if you have a film loaded.
The lever arm focus is not necessarily the most ergonomic, but it works. Unless you put it on a tripod.... in which case you're stuck with photographing landscapes at infinity or something much closer. With a standard tripod plate, the focus lever will foul the tripod plate.
The main area to check with them is the condition of the RF "mirrors". If this has been sorted, then you should be fine. The film wind mechanism works well and does not suffer the problems that can afflict the Super Isolette or its FSU cousin. The shutter interlock has an over-ride switch should you need, and there is a little indicator that shows if you have a film loaded.
The lever arm focus is not necessarily the most ergonomic, but it works. Unless you put it on a tripod.... in which case you're stuck with photographing landscapes at infinity or something much closer. With a standard tripod plate, the focus lever will foul the tripod plate.
charjohncarter
Veteran
Some people complain about Jurgen, but I've had three very satisfactory and complete transactions with him.
bwidjaja
Warung Photo
PC, thanks for the ergonomics comment. I notice that the focusing lever is at the bottom.
John, I also read that in some discussions and Jurgen can be slow to respond sometime. But so far I had no problem and the camera I got from him is in perfect working condition. Btw, nice picture above; I would not be able to tell if you said it was taken with one of the Isolettes...
John, I also read that in some discussions and Jurgen can be slow to respond sometime. But so far I had no problem and the camera I got from him is in perfect working condition. Btw, nice picture above; I would not be able to tell if you said it was taken with one of the Isolettes...
charjohncarter
Veteran
PC, thanks for the ergonomics comment. I notice that the focusing lever is at the bottom.
John, I also read that in some discussions and Jurgen can be slow to respond sometime. But so far I had no problem and the camera I got from him is in perfect working condition. Btw, nice picture above; I would not be able to tell if you said it was taken with one of the Isolettes...
No that is from my First Six, it has a wonderfully lousy lens. Every picture is a surprise:
This is a First Six:
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FallisPhoto
Veteran
Well, you have to figure that any old used camera you get is going to require some work. Certos and Isolettes are both good cameras but, compared to the Isolettes, the Certos are nightmares to work on. Certos are more complex and Isolettes generally have only two things to fix: bellows and lubricant. I'd go for the Isolette.
charjohncarter
Veteran
Thanks for that information. I don't plan to buy more folders now, but you never know what can go wrong with these cameras in the future, sooooo.
bigeye
Well-known
My Speedex Special (US Isolette) comfortably fits in my back pocket which is a big plus. I always have it with me. Maybe the certo can too?
The 532/16 doesn't come close and the additional size puts it in a different position with me. Being folded, it's still much better to carry than the DSLR.
The 532/16 doesn't come close and the additional size puts it in a different position with me. Being folded, it's still much better to carry than the DSLR.
FallisPhoto
Veteran
Just to clarify: Certos, being more complex cameras, have more things that can go wrong. If you buy a Certo you're not quite sure what you're going to have to do to it to get in into working shape. Isolettes have two well-known issues: (1) Their bellows material had a lot in common with vinyl electricians tape and developed pinholes and cracks at the drop of a hat. The bellows in an Isolette are held in with screws and changing bellows is very simple and easy though; it isn't much of a problem. Then there's the added consideration that I know where I can get good and relatively inexpensive 6x6 bellows that will fit. (2) The second problem is that the lubricant they used had no galvanic resistance at all and because of the way they were chromed, the two dissimilar metals generated a tiny electrical current. This current, small as it was, went right through the grease in the lens threads and caused it to polymerize (form molecular chains similar to plastic). The result, after a few decades, was that the grease achieved the consistency of road tar. It resists all solvents (acting like a caulk) and only heat will soften it enough to allow you to unscrew the lens elements (with effort) and pick it out (with a dental pick or a bent pin). Then you relube with a good grease. Once these two problems are solved, it is a good shooter.
It is just a question of whether you want to solve a number of unknown problems in a camera that is more difficult to work on, or two well-known problems in a simpler camera. If you've fixed one Isolette, the next 100 don't generally present a challenge. Anyway, that's why I'd pick an Isolette.
charjohncarter
Veteran
Thanks, I think I'll cross that one off my ldream list. They are beautiful though.
bigeye
Well-known
John:
I doubt I'd get anything else if I had that First Six.
My problem is that I keep bumping into fabulously made old folder legends that cost the price of lunch.
- Charlie
I doubt I'd get anything else if I had that First Six.
My problem is that I keep bumping into fabulously made old folder legends that cost the price of lunch.
- Charlie
charjohncarter
Veteran
I have other 6x6 folders, this one is tricky. Lots of lens flare, I just cobbled together a lens hood from and old RF. We will see if I can shoot at anything other than with the sun at my back. Look at this one; indoors but sun coming from the side, no light hitting the lens:
bigeye
Well-known
A little dirty inside? Maybe have a little wash-and-brush up?
FallisPhoto
Veteran
I have other 6x6 folders, this one is tricky. Lots of lens flare, I just cobbled together a lens hood from and old RF. We will see if I can shoot at anything other than with the sun at my back. Look at this one; indoors but sun coming from the side, no light hitting the lens:
I think you need to clean your lens elements, and here's a trick (well-known among telescope owners for reducing flare): Darken the edges of the front element with a Sharpie. In lenses that are prone to it, it will almost always significantly reduce flare.
MartinP
Veteran
Hi Fallis, the tip about darkening the edge of the lens element(s) . . that means the ground-glass outer edges of the lens I suppose ? Reducing internal reflection blah blah ? I recall seeing a video of a (Leica?) lens assembly where the edges of every element were indeed painted - likely for the same reason. Next time something is so dis-assenbled I will try out the idea
FallisPhoto
Veteran
Hi Fallis, the tip about darkening the edge of the lens element(s) . . that means the ground-glass outer edges of the lens I suppose ? Reducing internal reflection blah blah ? I recall seeing a video of a (Leica?) lens assembly where the edges of every element were indeed painted - likely for the same reason. Next time something is so dis-assenbled I will try out the idea
You've got the idea, and yes, I mean the ground glass edges. It really does help. When possible, I darken the edges of all my lens filters, and if I had a camera with lens flare that bad, I'd at least do it to the front element (I'd probably do the other elements too). It might not entirely eleminate all your flare problems (because I think you have a little bit of lens haze too), but the flare would at least be sharply reduced.
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charjohncarter
Veteran
Thanks for the tip, I might try that. There doesn't appear to be any haze on my lens, I cleaned it once.