In praise of the Sigma DP2.1.04

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I just bought a DP2. Usually I would not comment on any camera before using it for “a while” but already having the DP1 I had a good idea of what to expect. I got it – and more.

After upgrading the firmware to 1.04 (so it almost equals a DP2s) the black brick that is a DP camera transformed into an entirely different beast. The picture quality is still very transparency like (the 3D effect from the Foveon sensor that some of us claim to see…) but finally the camera body is “transparent” too and does not stand in your way!

No more slow handling. No more sluggish and indecisive AF. No more accidental changing of settings. No more phoney exposure compensation to simulate high ISO, say a quick prayer and adjust in SPP later on. Just use it like you would a Ricoh GRD and rejoice by the output. The high ISO RAW pictures are surprisingly clean.

With the DP2s Sigma (finally) produced the camera I had hoped the DP1 would be and deserve some praise for making the 1.04 firmware available for DP2 owners: So thank you very much Sigma.

If you, like me, consider(ed) the Leica X1 (but found it too expensive) and the Ricoh GXR (but found that too bulky when coupled with a big sensor/lens combo) then do yourself the favour to try out the DP2/DP2s before committing yourself. At a fraction of the X1/GXR cost not only do you get the Foveon look but avoid the wait of older DP-cameras. Of course the Franiec grip is still a must! As is a load of batteries 😱

Bottom line is that my GRD will retire. I like the 41mm better than the 28mm for everyday shooting (and still have the DP1’s 28mm if needed) and for what I use it for there is no need for the faster GRD lens.

Cheers,
Xpanded

 

[wintoid]

Interesting! Do you still need to use the Sigma software to convert, or does Photoshop support it now?

 

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RAW conversion

RAW conversion

Interesting! Do you still need to use the Sigma software to convert, or does Photoshop support it now?

Yes and no...

In general I prefer the conversion via the SPP (Sigma) software [I generally prefer the conversion by the software provided by camera makers] but...

...with the DP1 there were three (to my knowledge) problems with image quality.
a) Loss of colour with high ISO pictures - the kind of bleach desaturation filter you pay to get for other cameras 😉
b) Noise
c) Colour casts of various hues through different ISO levels

I just shot in a passageway lined with trees at various ISO levels. A green canopy above and lots of pink flower leaves on one side of the picture. The results are clearly not a pass [I have not seen it in any other picture - yet] as the green colour cast is unbelievable on the pavement and a stone wall to the other side of the pink flowers. Here clearly the choice of raw converter does influence the outcome. I have tried 4 different options:

Worst: SPP 4.0 (newest)
Slightly better: SPP 3.5
Somewhat better: LR3/ACR
Almost passable: LR2/ACR

But the desaturation effect with ACR at higher ISO is very pronounced so ideal it is not. SPP 4 is best at preventing the desaturation and SPP 3.5 better than ACR.

I have only seen the green colour cast in this series of 5 pictures (out of some 300 already captured) but it is really ugly. At ISO 100 and 200 it is not a problem. At ISO 400 the effect is obvious. From 800 and up it is absolutely appalling. So bad actually that I have sent two pictures to Sigma and have them comment on it. I knew it was a risk before I committed to buying but I have never seen anything this bad.

Is this a showstopper?
-For somebody else it might be.
-For me it is not.

But it is an irritant that one has to learn and memorize situations where this might be a problem and then decide if a B&W will do the trick or alternatively pull out the tripod that we all carry in any and all situations anyway (not…).

I still find it immensely funny to use and the 295 other captures are beautiful IQ-wise. Obviously this is something Sigma need to address in SPP 4 and it seems likely they will be able to since 3.5 is so much better (although still not good enough) at converting that particular green cast series.

I will try to get around testing it against the DP1 in more detail.

Based on output I have seen from the X1 and GXR this is indeed something to consider. Pay £€$$ with the DP2 and risk colour cast. Or pay more and get bulk (GXR) or pay significantly more and get a free wheeling X1 control wheel.



Link to example - quite subdued in jpeg conversion

Cheers,
Xpanded

 

[yanidel]

Great to see you enjoy it a lot !
The DP2.1.04 😉 is indeed a whole different beast than the initial DP1 or DP2. AF is now probably as fast as any of the other big sensor compact cameras, if not faster in good light conditions (it still struggles a bit in low light, but so do the others).
I agree on the Foveon colors, it is simply gorgeous and if one does not print bigger than A3+, the image size is more than sufficient for great prints.
The DP2 holds a great advantage over its peers, be it the X1, GRX or G1. It fits an interior suit, jacket ... coat pocket, making it a real take anywhere camera.
But kind of too bad for Sigma it took so many years to come up with a finished product. I hope the DP3 will build on this experience and be the perfect compact.

 

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AF is now probably as fast as any of the other big sensor compact cameras, if not faster in good light conditions (it still struggles a bit in low light, but so do the others).
.

And, as you can see, just by getting the same camera you have the beautiful women start passing me in the street all the time 😉

Now I only need to learn how to focus the camera behind my back :bang:

 

[wintoid]

That's a useful feature!

 

[Ronald_H]

And I so promised myself not to buy a new camera this year 🙄

A friend has the DP2, the image quality and the lens are simply gorgeous, but the black on black buttons are stupid, handling and AF are (were?) slow and you need a truckload of batteries.

Still I'm tempted. But let's get that Canonet GIII QL17 CLA'd first...

 

[--]

And I so promised myself not to buy a new camera this year 🙄

I know the feeling 😱

A friend has the DP2, the image quality and the lens are simply gorgeous, but the black on black buttons are stupid, handling and AF are (were?) slow and you need a truckload of batteries.

Yes, I think it was very good they chose to change the colour coding of the buttons on the DP2s, but in daily use it does not seem to be such a big problem. The quick set (QS) button (and the fact that on the rotating wheel there is a special setting for "setup" like formatting the card etc.) covers most of the daily use.

It does take a little getting use to the QS button. You change the settings with the four way directional buttons but each button covers only one thing in an endless loop. So while button up is ISO, button down is WB. I think I have pushed button down at least ten times already not understanding why the screen changes its colour (WB change) instead of ISO...

Once this is second nature the DP2 is about as fast to operate as any other compact camera I have owned (including the Ricohs GX-100 and GRD and the Panasonic LX2) and incomparably faster than the DP1. I may actually prefer it over the others.

It would be nice, though, if the control wheel on top had "my settings" like the Ricoh GX-series.

AF is fast enough now. You can catch cars driving by while a DP1 would struggle to keep up with an ox cart 😉

And having 3 batteries is a must.

Early days yet though and still have not tried the flash system in any detail. It sucks on the DP1 (and on the GRD btw).

Cheers

 

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But me no but(ton)s

But me no but(ton)s

In the (for now) final comments on my DP2.1.04 I will post four different post in various degrees of seriousness.

a) But me no but(ton)s [this]
b) The competition – NEX-5
c) If I were Sigma
d) A DMD, The DMD or simply a DMC

But me no but(ton)s
I have of late been able to shoot a bit more than usual, so I have clocked up a few more pictures since last. Overall my previous comments cover my accumulative opinion. The DP2.1.04/DP2s is a marked improvement over the DP1/DP2 and satisfies my needs.

I would strongly recommend anybody looking into buying this camera to invest in the Franiec Grip and the Sigma Hood. At 344 grams (2 GB card – 4 GB might be heavier…) this is one neat little package. But…

The DP2.1.04 is not a silent camera. Unfortunately the camera is out of the box somewhat noisy due to the AF/lens movements. But (for me at least) the DP2.1.04 suffers from an ailment already present in the DP1. I don’t know if this is also the case for the DP2s, so I cannot reliably comment on that.

On the DP1 I didn’t use the four way controller or other possibilities to make shortcut adjustments for one very clear reason: the buttons were easily touched and didn’t offer adequate resistance. Thus the DP1 would, almost by itself, change settings (like going to jpeg from RAW say) making the photographical journey a bit too interesting.

The DP2.1.04 suffers from the same problem. So after having switched the default settings for the “Key Arrangement” [user manual page 31] the harm done is no longer the default exposure compensation changes but aperture changes – almost bearable. Trying to curb the risk of unwanted changes even further the sound settings [user manual page 32] for “Key Sound” must be activated and “Sound Volume” turned all the way up. This way there is a high probability that the user will actually hear if he or she brushes the camera against something so that the settings are changed. But fool proof it isn’t.

This to me is the biggest mishap of the DP2/DP2.1.04 and I’m aghast that it hasn’t been rectified. A simple change in the buttons’ resistance would have done the job. Fortunately the highest sound setting of the DP2 is quite loud, but it should not be a problem at all, never should really.

It is hard to find anything positive to say about this BEEP nuisance apart from the fact that with a beeping camera you surely do look like a tourist. Not only will you be less intimidating but if you look like Kevin Spacey nobody will ask you for an autograph…

 

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The competition – NEX-5 and others

The competition – NEX-5 and others

The competition – NEX-5 and others

For me the competitors fall into different three different categories after sensor size:
The small ones – Canon G11 and S90, Leica D-Lux 4, Panasonic LX3 and Samsung TL500
The m4/3 ones – Panasonic G1, G2, and GF1 and Olympus Pens (E-P1, E-P2 and E-PL1) and
The APS crowd – Leica X1, Ricoh GXR, Samsung NX10 and, now, the Sony NEX-5

The small ones I summarily dismissed due to sensor size, although I must admit being attracted to both the G-series and the D-Lux 4/LX3.
The m4/3 segment was discarded for two reasons. The first was size. In particular the G1 body and to some extent the E-P1/P2 bodies were uncomfortable holding. The size was just wrong. The GF1 and E-PL1 are a little better but still not good enough.
Size also dismissed the GXR and the NX10 and honestly price was the deciding factor against the X1 (apart from availability).

While Nikon (few knows for how long) and Canon are sleeping Minolta, sorry, Sony, has just launched the NEX-5. Since my very first serious camera was a Minolta I have always had a soft spot for their innovative and user oriented solutions and I like Sony electronics too, so I took a second look.

The overall impression is very positive although the design looks a little odd – at least at first. The tilt-able screen is very nice. And it seems the AF system is fast enough and the roadmap for the system, including the parallel video-setup, well thought through. Most of all the NEX-5 body seems just about the right size and with adequate grip. Obviously I haven’t been able to try it out for real, but on paper at least it looks like a serious contender to the DP-series.

Four things (apart from the uncertainty of the NEX-5 performance in real life) still sway me towards the DP-series however.

1) The lenses on the DP1 and the DP2 are hard to match – the initial review on CNET of the zoom at least is not very positive.
2) The 16mm (24mm equivalent) pancake looks nice, but if I were to have only one focal length it would not be 24mm!
3) The size of the DP2 with the hood is just right.
4) The Foveon sensor creates the magic I have only seen from Leica lenses and Zeiss (although they pop too much for my liking).

So while my DP2.1.04 high ISO pictures may turn out to be best used in B&W or “bleached” to disguise the (very) random green cast the 344 grams pass my gravity test. The DP2.1.04 by and large makes me the weak link in the process towards masterpieces and to me that is good enough.

 

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If I were Sigma

If I were Sigma

If I were Sigma

The route for Sigma holds several possibilities. Churning out more optimized versions of the same cameras, making an interchangeable lens system, or ceasing production altogether. I doubt (and seriously hope not) the latter is an option with the acquisition of Foveon and all in mind.

CURRENT
Looking at ways to improving the camera I would choose a radical re-hash of the camera making it even more minimalist with a few select changes:
i) make a flash like the Ricoh GX-100 around the hot shoe but keep the latter
ii) put an OVF where the flash is today
iii) drop the 4-way controller and put a scroll wheel (that doesn’t move by accident) instead
iv) make two levers somewhere “out of way” that can be used to changing metering and switch between AF and MF
v) make a dedicated dual dial for ISO/exposure compensation on the camera top (where the flash is situated today)
vi) make all buttons bigger so that the camera can be used comfortably with gloves on
vii) fit a high resolution (920k) screen – well, steal the NEX-5’s but make it AMOLED ;-)
viii) incorporate a vibration reduction system – probably sensor based
ix) continue to improve high ISO performance
x) continue to improve AF performance – speed, precision and low light capabilities
xi) continue to improve writing times
xii) fit dual SD-card slots for immediate backup (probably difficult)
xiii) make a lens cover that fits the lens hood
xiv) remove the green (and any other) cast problem once and for all and finally
xv) weather seal it.

This would make me upgrade in due time.

INTERCHANGEABLE LENS SYSTEM
Well, the i) to xv) suggestions above prevail. I would prefer pancake lenses (28mm and 41mm) and make them fast. Add a 90mm lens f2.8.

I know your take will be different 🙂

 

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A DMD, The DMD or simply a DMC ;-)

A DMD, The DMD or simply a DMC ;-)

A DMD, The DMD or simply a DMC 😉

And now to a semi serious round off.

Ever since the DMD phrase was coined I guess a significant number of professional reviewers and amateurs like myself have been debating whether this or that was camera was “the DMD” or just a step towards the mythical DMD: “a DMD” but not quite “the DMD”.

The DP1 was definitely “a DMD” – only it was an “Abnormal DMD. Still a DMD when used with manual focus but far from perfect.
The DP2 was also “a DMD” – this time an “Almost DMD”. The AF speed being the one thing that held it back
The DP2.1.04/DP2s to me is definitely “a DMD” – this time an “Acceptable DMD”.

But while we wait for “The DMD”, this dream world toy cum tool that will make us drool (and, which, by the way, probably is as elusive as the dream girl of our adolescence) I suggest another acronym – the DMC: A Doc Martin Camera 😀

For those unfamiliar with this ITV series “Doc Martin” taking place in Cornwall starring Martin Clunes as “Middle Age Man Behaving Badly” you are in for a treat. Obviously the similarities are striking...

Like the DP1 Doc Martin [equalling the camera as a whole] came to fame through “Saving Grace” and made a stir, although Brenda Blethyn aka The Foveon Sensor concept was the real star of the show.

Having swallowed and accepted the sensor “Doc Martin” and “Doc Martin and the Legend of the Cloutie” had a transforming role like the DP2. The films endeared the viewers to Port Isaac but some of the novelty of the “Saving Grace” story was lost.

And then came the DP2.1.04/DP2s. Just like Doc Martin got a new surname [(sm)Ellingham instead of Bamford] the DP2 camera got a new lease on life. And mind you each and every important cast member of Doc Martin describes some part of the DP2.1.04/DP2s camera. It is almost scary…:

Caroline Catz/Louisa Glasson is the Foveon sensor. Compassionate and clever, beautiful and sophisticated she still has the odd sensor cast [how else can she love Doc Martin] that blurs her vision?
Martin Clunes/Doctor Martin Ellingham is the 41mm lens. Going straight to the point he/it accepts no small talk but secures extreme clarity with no bending around the edges.
Ian McNeice/Bert Large is the camera body without the Franiec grip.
Joe Absolom/Al Large is the camera with the Franiec grip.
Stephanie Cole/Auntie Joan is the precision and speed of the AF system – almost always right.
Selina Cadell/Mrs Tishell is the noise made from the camera that always seems to end prematurely.
Stewart Wright/John Marquez as PC Mark Mylow and PC Penhale equal the start up time.
Katherine Parkinson/Pauline Lamb is the QS button – sometimes irritating but actually quite useful overall.
And the series itself is like the camera – a joy to watch and use.
And no, I do not write about the dogs, because the DP2.1.04 is not a dog of a camera!

And before I end with a small quote from Doc Martin let me assure you: yes, I’m totally bodmin. But buying the DP2.1.04/DP2s is not half crazy.

Mrs. Walker: Am I your first official patient?
Dr. Martin Ellingham: Indeed you are, yes. Collect a thousand loyalty points and you get a free coffin.

Now there is a GP for you :angel:

 

[AJShepherd]

I've got a Sigma DP1 and despite its foibles I really love it, as there's something about the pictures I get from it that i don't see in any other digital camera I've owned.
I was thinking about my dream camera....

The Sigma DP-3 MRF - a collaboration between Sigma and Cosina producing a M mount rangefinder with full frame Foveon sensor, in the same size and shape as a Bessa R3 or R4.
If such a beastie was released (and we can all dream) it would be the only camera I'd ever need.

 

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The Sigma DP-3 MRF - a collaboration between Sigma and Cosina producing a M mount rangefinder with full frame Foveon sensor, in the same size and shape as a Bessa R3 or R4.

Yes, that would be VERY nice 🙂

 

[leojan]

I have a question: I own a Sigma DP1 and a DP2. Love those little camera's. But sometimes if I make a photo with my DP2, a white wall for example, there is some color cast to be seen in de corners. The DP1 does not have this. Is this a well known fault and is there a way to correct this in photoshop?

 

[sniki]

Sigma Corporation is pleased to announce that firmware Ver.1.05 for the DP2 and Ver.1.01 for DP2s is now available for download.

* SIGMA DP2 firmware [Ver.1.05]
* SIGMA DP2s firmware [Ver.1.01]

Benefits of the firmware update

* Improved image quality at ISO400.

DP2 firmware Ver.1.05 is available for download at the following site.

http://www.sigma-dp.com/DP2/firmware.html

DP2s firmware Ver.1.01 is available for download at the following site.

http://www.sigma-dp.com/DP2s/firmware.html

 

[Eddie90723]

I love my DP2. It's the greatest digicam I have ever used. Prior to it I was running with the Leicasonic Dlux3. Which was a cool camera. Did what it had to do. But once I started with the DP2, it was retired very very quickly.
I stumbled upon while reading British camera magazines and kept running acoss the full page ads for it. It looked so different than other cameras that it caught my eye. Then I strted reading the reviews. Wow. How negative they were. Just about everyone was a "good try but pass" or something along those lines. But there I kept reading and looking for info on line about it. Lord knows how many times I looked it up on flickr. I lived the output but those nasty reviews did tend to nag at me. Finally I decided to look for one and learned the hard way that no one carries them in store in LA. Weeks went by and I finally found it at Canoga Camera. Went tried it. Didn't like it. The focus and slow start up was a trip. I thought it was dying. So I went about my way an hour and a half back home. But still kept thinking about it. Few days later, I was staring at my camera collection and just how random it is. I noticed that not a single one I had was nice or friendly. Between the holgas, diana's, Kiev 88, and polaroids, I thought why not. I got it. Love it! Never regretted it. I have shot so many awesome pics thanks to it. In fact I never printed any of my digital pics prior to this. As far as it's quirks hiccups and slow focusing: switch it to manual and it will focus so much faster. Do everything manually and you're in business. To me, Sigma doesn't market it as a consumer model. They pretty much point out that they are aiming for pros. I can't wait for the SD15 or DP1X. If they ever come out, they will be living with me.

 

[--]

If they ever come out, they will be living with me.

And they would get a good home too 😀

 

[rlouzan]

Would you guys recommend it over the Panasonic GF1?

Thanks,
Robert

 

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Would you guys recommend it over the Panasonic GF1?

Thanks,
Robert

I have never owned a GF1. Of the m4/3 it is the one with the nicest body (to my hands at least). But I have seen output from it. And the DP2 output to the GF1 output is like Medium Format to 35mm film.

BUT [and I love my DP1 and DP2] there are quirks with the DP series. You will end up cursing it. You will (at some point) wish to throw it into the tarmac (hard). You will start nicknaming it your mother-in-law’s first name 😱

But when you come home and see the output (or when you eat her cooking) everything is forgotton - you will mellow out again and rejoice of the picture quality 😀

And maybe I should try answering your question - yes, I would buy it over the GF1. But I have other cameras. If I were to have one and only one and should use it for everything then probably not. I would then buy something else (in my case most likely a D90) and still dream of the DP2...