mitch
Member
So it's been a while since I've done any developing on my own, and while I admit I haven't done all that much of it, I've never ran into anything like this before.
A few days ago I picked up some Efke R25, shot it in my Mamiya 7, and developed it at home in my cheap plastic tank, one reel at a time. The first roll I developed in Rodinal 1:50 for 8 minutes, the second I tried 1:100 for an hour. Both rolls were rinsed in water for a minute or two and then fixed in Ilford's RapidFix for about two and a half minutes. On both rolls I encountered some problems:
For one, there appears to have been a light leak somewhere along the line. They show up on both edges of the negatives, though it's more prominent on one side than it is another. Stranger than that though, is that along the edges of some of the frames themselves, it appears as if the image is 'bleeding' into the unexposed area of the negative, though this only seems to happen in the denser parts of the negative. This also does not happen in every frame, it seems to be random. The markings on the negatives themselves also exhibit this, making the frame numbers look kind of blurred or like a drop shadow or glowing edge was added in photoshop. That's really the only way I can describe it.
I don't think the light leak (if it even is one) is in the camera itself, as I just shot a roll of Velvia through it about a week or two ago and those negatives show nothing of the sort that these most recent two are. Also, when I loaded the second roll onto the reel, I did so using the changing bag in complete darkness, trying to determine where the problem lies. That second roll isn't as bad as the first, though there is one spot between two of the frames where it looks like the film was exposed to a single point of light. Otherwise the effects are still there, though less pronounced.
I'm going to shoot a third roll today or sometime soon and have that developed at a lab here in the city, to try to eliminate the camera itself as the problem, but I'm hoping someone else may have run into something like this before and can tell me what I might be doing wrong.
A few days ago I picked up some Efke R25, shot it in my Mamiya 7, and developed it at home in my cheap plastic tank, one reel at a time. The first roll I developed in Rodinal 1:50 for 8 minutes, the second I tried 1:100 for an hour. Both rolls were rinsed in water for a minute or two and then fixed in Ilford's RapidFix for about two and a half minutes. On both rolls I encountered some problems:
For one, there appears to have been a light leak somewhere along the line. They show up on both edges of the negatives, though it's more prominent on one side than it is another. Stranger than that though, is that along the edges of some of the frames themselves, it appears as if the image is 'bleeding' into the unexposed area of the negative, though this only seems to happen in the denser parts of the negative. This also does not happen in every frame, it seems to be random. The markings on the negatives themselves also exhibit this, making the frame numbers look kind of blurred or like a drop shadow or glowing edge was added in photoshop. That's really the only way I can describe it.
I don't think the light leak (if it even is one) is in the camera itself, as I just shot a roll of Velvia through it about a week or two ago and those negatives show nothing of the sort that these most recent two are. Also, when I loaded the second roll onto the reel, I did so using the changing bag in complete darkness, trying to determine where the problem lies. That second roll isn't as bad as the first, though there is one spot between two of the frames where it looks like the film was exposed to a single point of light. Otherwise the effects are still there, though less pronounced.
I'm going to shoot a third roll today or sometime soon and have that developed at a lab here in the city, to try to eliminate the camera itself as the problem, but I'm hoping someone else may have run into something like this before and can tell me what I might be doing wrong.
Benjamin Marks
Veteran
Can you scan a strip of negs to show the problem? I was going to guess light leak due to 120 film not being tightly wound enough on the spool. It is also possible that there was defect in manufacturing. I had a lot of Eastern Bloc film in the 1990 exhibit various surface/coating defects . . .
[Edit: you also might have a light leak in your developing tank . . . a crack in the lid?]
[Edit: you also might have a light leak in your developing tank . . . a crack in the lid?]
Leigh Youdale
Well-known
In the last month I've been testing a number of East European 120 films and had some similar experiences across the brands, - Foma, Efke, Rollei.
First, the Efke and Foma films both seem to have blurry frame markings. Whether it's an outcome of their dip & dunk batch production on old machines or 'piping' - light leaks from the edge of the roll - I'm not sure. Note that Adox supply black plastic containers for their films (made in the same factory now as Efke) and their product notes mention (a) because of the old fashioned design of the films they are prone to light getting through the edges of the rolled film, so load and unload in subdued light or shade and put the film back in the containers until processing.
Second, because of the thicker emulsion I found it necessary to fix for longer and to use the same agitation regime as for development. I use Ilford Rapid Fix for 5 minutes.
Third, on my Rolleiflex I've also noticed the light "leak" between some frames - usually when shooting into the sun and even using a lens hood. I put it down to the same lack of anti-halation properties that allow 'piping' from the film edge.
Fourth, stand development at 1:100 in Rodinal may work on modern films but I think theres a risk that these older films with a thicker, single layer emulsion, don't stand (sorry) it as well. There could also be an effect noted in one of Roger Hicks books when using some highly diluted developers with low concentrations of developing agents which exhaust quickly. He states that agitation during development is critical. "give too much and the edge (acutance) effects are negligible; give too little, and you get 'streamers' from developer exhaustion products." I don't know if I've misquoted him but I have also see these streamers and thought they were light leaks, but Roger's assessment tells me it was chemical marks I was looking at.
First, the Efke and Foma films both seem to have blurry frame markings. Whether it's an outcome of their dip & dunk batch production on old machines or 'piping' - light leaks from the edge of the roll - I'm not sure. Note that Adox supply black plastic containers for their films (made in the same factory now as Efke) and their product notes mention (a) because of the old fashioned design of the films they are prone to light getting through the edges of the rolled film, so load and unload in subdued light or shade and put the film back in the containers until processing.
Second, because of the thicker emulsion I found it necessary to fix for longer and to use the same agitation regime as for development. I use Ilford Rapid Fix for 5 minutes.
Third, on my Rolleiflex I've also noticed the light "leak" between some frames - usually when shooting into the sun and even using a lens hood. I put it down to the same lack of anti-halation properties that allow 'piping' from the film edge.
Fourth, stand development at 1:100 in Rodinal may work on modern films but I think theres a risk that these older films with a thicker, single layer emulsion, don't stand (sorry) it as well. There could also be an effect noted in one of Roger Hicks books when using some highly diluted developers with low concentrations of developing agents which exhaust quickly. He states that agitation during development is critical. "give too much and the edge (acutance) effects are negligible; give too little, and you get 'streamers' from developer exhaustion products." I don't know if I've misquoted him but I have also see these streamers and thought they were light leaks, but Roger's assessment tells me it was chemical marks I was looking at.
mitch
Member
I'll make a quick scan of a section of the negatives when I get the chance, and I have yet to inspect the tank itself for leaks. I'm guessing that's the problem though, as I looked over every other roll I've shot in the Mamiya so far and none of them show any leaks. Leigh, you also bring up some interesting points. I'm curious to see the results when I have the next roll processed in a local lab.
nikon_sam
Shooter of Film...
Mitch...
The "Light Leak" may be due to changing the film in bright direct light...
I get the same thing at times...the paper backing may not be tight enough when you remove the roll from the camera...light gets in at the edges...try changing the next rolls in a well shaded area and then make sure the paper backing is tight...
I also get the bleeding at the outer edges of the image but only if it's a bright sky scene...my guess is that's normal...
The "Light Leak" may be due to changing the film in bright direct light...
I get the same thing at times...the paper backing may not be tight enough when you remove the roll from the camera...light gets in at the edges...try changing the next rolls in a well shaded area and then make sure the paper backing is tight...
I also get the bleeding at the outer edges of the image but only if it's a bright sky scene...my guess is that's normal...
Fotohuis
Well-known
Take notice that Foma is from Hradec Kralové (Cz) and Efke is from Samobor, Croatia while the Rollei films are made in Belgium by Gevaert. Only the 120 roll film confectioning (Rollei) has been done by Ilford/Harman, Foma and Efke.
Most problems with light leaks are due to the wrong usage of the 120 POLYESTER roll film material. The material tends to curl of so you have to change in subdue light and keep the film straight and tight when loading and unloading.
Foma has been an iso 9001 since years so they have a better Q.C. system now. Same with Gevaert in Belgium. Only Efke has sometimes problems also due to the very old machines. This material is made according Dr. Schleussner/Adox recept of the 50's. So in all things a classical type film. It's a single layer type with high sharpness.
Best fit in Rodinal or Beutler developer. Do not over expose these films, neither use a strong stop or a wide varity in temperature between the different stages of film development.
Most problems with light leaks are due to the wrong usage of the 120 POLYESTER roll film material. The material tends to curl of so you have to change in subdue light and keep the film straight and tight when loading and unloading.
Foma has been an iso 9001 since years so they have a better Q.C. system now. Same with Gevaert in Belgium. Only Efke has sometimes problems also due to the very old machines. This material is made according Dr. Schleussner/Adox recept of the 50's. So in all things a classical type film. It's a single layer type with high sharpness.
Best fit in Rodinal or Beutler developer. Do not over expose these films, neither use a strong stop or a wide varity in temperature between the different stages of film development.