Leica LTM compatability with FSU bodies

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yelofngr

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hello all, first post here.

i just picked up a leitz summitar and am looking for a body to put it on, dependable, and not bank-breaking, and soon, so i can get to shooting.
just came upon FSUs and am looking at the FED 4.

my question is, can the summitar be properly mounted and used on the FED 4?

thanks.
 
Hi there, welcome to the forum!

Mounting the lens should not be a problem at all and neither should collapsing it on the body be.

While both Leica and Russian manufacturers label their lenses as '50mm', the lens register for the Leica lenses actually is 51.6 mm and for the FSU lenses is (Contax standard) 52.4 mm. The Russian lenses have slightly different helical threading and on the camera the rangefinder cam movement is slightly different. All this is minute.

At closest distance and with widest apertures you might have some trouble. With using FSU lenses on Leica bodies, close up and wide open you have front focusing. Not sure how that works with a Leica lens on an FSU body though.

However, when stopped down a bit and shooting past the 3mtr mark, you should be fine. Best way to find out what happens when shooting close up & wide open, is to try it!

Happy shooting!
 
If you adjust the FED's RF to agree with the lens at close focus and infinity, which is a little tedious, you should be able to get close enough agreement. As buzzardkid says, there may be slight errors close-up/wide open but you may well find it's not an issue in practice.

There's a sticky in the FSU sub-forum with instructions on how to adjust the RF; you'll need a very fine screwdriver, a pair of needle-nose pliers and some patience. When you've done it, don't expect it to work with any reguar FSU lenses though.
 
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I recommend you check the actual focus at the film plane with a piece of ground glass before you fiddle with the RF adjustment. Both the body (whichever one you end up getting) and the lens have decades of use in them and there's no way to predict how they'll behave with each other. You might just get lucky.

Welcome to the forum!
 
I recommend to look at Canon LTM bodies. No adjustment necessary, and with a Canon P, for instance, you get a 1:1 viewfinder, parallax corrected frames, etc. And a working camera from the start. A bit more expensive (the P is around US 200), but you'll likely save yourself a lot of time.
 
The FSU cameras use an RF pickup that is different from the Leica, Canon, and others. The FSU cameras use a "finger" rather than a wheel. This will often slip under the RF cam of a Leica lens. Best to inspect the combination before buying.

I cannot use my Leica lenses on the Zorki 3M for this reason. I can use a Nikkor 5cm F2 as it has a thick RF cam.
 
That's a big jump! There are a lot of in betweens. A Canon 7 with working Selenium meter runs about $200 these days.
 
sonofdanang said:
"The poor man pays twice."

If you are interested in making pictures, get the very best camera you can for what you can afford. That would mean the Canons or the occasional Barnack or Bessa that shows up in the classifieds on this forum.

If you are interested in tinkering endlessly, and ultimately spending more money than you would have had you purchased a quality RF body in the first place, then by all means an FSU body.

Personally, I think the FSU stuff, with some notable and rare exceptions, is junk. Canon, Leica, et al, with some exceptions, are "get out of your way" picture taking machines. Choose your poison.

Good luck!
Click to expand...

I've just about had it with these endless generalizations about FSU cameras.

From the 2nd roll through my $35 (incl. shipping) FED-2:

U30307I1276044155.SEQ.0.jpg


No tinkering needed. I merely checked that the speeds and focus were reasonably accurate, as one would have to do with any ~50 year old camera.
 
batterytypehah! said:
I've just about had it with these endless generalizations about FSU cameras.

From the 2nd roll through my $35 (incl. shipping) FED-2:
(image snipped - see above)
No tinkering needed. I merely checked that the speeds and focus were reasonably accurate, as one would have to do with any ~50 year old camera.
Click to expand...

Hey, any modern Leica could do that with just the right slightly-soft filter which if Leica made it would cost maybe $200.

Seriously, some people search for just that look in a lens. Good work!

BUT - please consider that the lens was made for the body. Some Leica lenses do not focus well on the FED-2.
 
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Just buy a Bessa R. Great meter, accurate shutter, bright viewfinder, and whatever downsides they have are made up for by being ultra reliable.
 
just to be clear- All Three of my Zorki 3M's have the same problem with the RF pickup slipping under the RF Cam of a Leica lens. There is a system design reason for this: the finger type pickup used on most FSU cameras can follow the RF cam of a properly cammed lens into the body of the lens. The wheel type pickup usually stops at the threads of the mount. The Finger type pickup can follow the lens farther, allowing closer focus.
 
brian, i'm sorry for my inexperience.

so are you saying the fed4 i'm looking to buy may not operate the summitar? could it possibly damage if? will it not couple and allow focus?

or is this a problem specific to the zorki 3m that was rectified in later models?

to everyone, thank you and i love the ideas, love the passion on here!
 
You should test the combination before committing to it. I have had the same experience with a Fed 1 and a Fed 2 as well. I just like and use the Zorki 3M's. The design of the RF pickup is the same, and it slips under the RF Cam of the Leica lenses. On the 3M, I took the back off, set the shutter to "B", and could see the problem.

You are better off getting a Canon, or other camera made to the Leica standard. The Russian cameras and lenses are made to a slightly different standard.

I doubt the lens would be damaged, but it might not couple properly. I could not use my Leica lenses with my Russian cameras.
 
i hear you brian. i'm definitely going to be getting a much more precision instrument once i catch one on ebay. its just that there seems to be much waiting for a good one.

some other people have also told me to bend the cam on russian rangefinders so that it does couple to the leica lens cam. do you have any ideas on that?

you seem like you have a lot of experience with canon rangefinders. i was looking at some and they all seem to have fungus problems on the viewfinder. is that easily resolvable? can one take off the top and clean it off themselves?
 
I agree with Brian that you can't rely on the Summitar/FED combo to work. I have one Leica lens (9cm Elmar) and one made-for-Leica (3.5cm Nikkor). The Nikkor couples fine with the FED-2 rangefinder, although it needs to be mounted and unmounted with a careful touch. The Elmar does not couple.

We all know how tempting it is to look at ebay listings, but in your case it would be much better if you could try the camera in person. Consider a thread to ask if somebody in your area is willing to meet up and let you try theirs. You don't give your location but maybe you have an active Craigslist or the occasional camera show where you are.

Alternatively, you could try to buy one through the classifieds here and agree on a trial period. KEH also sells with return privileges. They rarely have FSU gear, but cosmetically-challenged Leicas show up pretty regularly.

If your budget allows, a Leica, Canon or CV Bessa is indeed a safer bet. Does it have to be a rangefinder, by the way? The last Bessa-L that went through the classifieds here sold for something like $75. You do need to add the cost for a 50mm finder to that. Certainly not the tool to shoot the Summitar wide open and up close, but if your intention is "street," landscape, etc., it would work fine while you're looking (and saving) for something better.

Lastly, don't forget M mount bodies. User condition CL bodies can be had around $250. 40mm instead of 50mm framelines in the finder, though.
 
thanks batterytypehah!, wasnt aware my profile wasnt updated correctly.

craigslist would be grrreat, but i'm living in japan for the moment, so i guess i better start scoping out local shops.

i would much prefer a rangefinder. theres something about the merging of the images and just the experience that i really enjoy. however i am open to trying a scale focus camera, altho i'd be lying if i said the idea doesnt frighten me a bit. no experience with it. im new to rangefinders even. i am looking to shoot street tho. street and friends.

appreciate the ideas, will keep looking around.

how have yalls experiences been with KEH? i've read both glowing, and some lately which sound downright bad in the last year i've heard they've changed.
 
The Canon cameras, and many others, can suffer from desilvering of the beamsplitters in the rangefinder mechanism. Again- inspect before buying, or buy from someone that has used it.

I have had five Canon 7 cameras- all had first rate viewfinders, and did not suffer from desilvering. I currently have two, and they are first rate after owning for 7 years. The Canon P and Canon 7 seem to fair better than most. I have a Canon IIf that is also perfect, but had a Canon IVS that had some silver loss. It was still usable.
 
Brian is quite right in that you should test the combination and see if the RF cam is OK. For the record I've just taken the back off of my FED 2 and fitted the Summitar in it and the cam couples nicely with the skimpy whatever it's called.

Experience tells me that you will probably get away with fitting the Summitar on a FED and it won't matter too much. It'll crash when you photograph near objects at wide apertures - that's a generalisation, btw but wth.

In your shoes, and based on what I've actually experienced over the last mumble, mumble years with a few Leicas and FED's or Zorkis, I'll offer this advice;

It's too late to go back now; you've bought the Summitar and it needs a body but that will only be the start of it (Leica addiction) and you'll eventually end up with several lenses and bodies of all three makes.

So why not look for a FED 2 or whatever and buy it? They are dirt cheap and you usually get a good lens on them (Industar 26 or 61 LD or even Jupiter-8). So you can experiment with the mixed combination and - if it doesn't work use the FED's lens whilst waiting for the Leica IIIa to or IIIb to turn up for the lens. Or even a later one: bitter experience suggests you should date the lens and then look for that year's body. Or a body a year younger. You'll probably end up doing that...

I'll offer a second piece of advice: it's best to keep quiet about how nice ex-USSR cameras are, especially ones that have been serviced etc. Own them and use them for the pleasure of the things and carry a back-up Leica M7 with a Noctilux on it to hit people with that run down the FED or Zorki.

Third piece of advice from someone in the trade (astro-physics), never argue with a flat-earther as you won't win...

Regards, David

PS (The edit) whatever you do, hold on to the Summitar. They are second only to a Summicron and very very close in normal usage.
 
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Not a generalization...personal experience.....I have owned 3 Kieves, 3 Zorkies, and 2 Feds all CLA'd and some with new curtains (not the Kieves obviously).....the only one that worked well enough to rely on was the Fed2.

Focusing issues aside I was never able to get comfortable with FSU's....just as a frame of reference my go-to camera is a IIIc and has been for many years.
 
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