What is this ? And how much is this worth ?
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FPjohn
Well-known
Looks like a plate camera; not quite 9x12. Lens should be quite good if cleaned. I use a 150mm Tessar in similar Compur shutter without problems.
Perhaps the more well informed can tell you if it is a worthy project.
yours
FPJ
Perhaps the more well informed can tell you if it is a worthy project.
yours
FPJ
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oftheherd
Veteran
It is a Voightlander 9x12 camera (135mm lens is the clue). I would guess one of the early ones, from the 20s or early 30s. That is of course only a guess on my part. It would have taken cut film holders and film packs, and probably you could find a 120 back for it. They tend to be expensive however.
What you want to look for first is if the bellows are light tight. Then see how/if the shutter works. I think that is an early Compur, as I think all later ones were a variant of the Compur Rapid, going up to 1/200 second.
The lens should not have fungus, but haze. It is cleanable by unscrewing the lens element holders from front and back.
Is it worth fixing up? I can't answer that. I don't know what if anything is wrong, nor how handy you are. Do you have cut film holders? They are getting harder to get, but still show up on ebay. You have to be sure the holders you buy will fit your camera. Most will, but not all.
The shutter might only need flushing with lighter fluid, and then perhaps some light lubricant. The bellows if not light tight, can be "repaired," but you will be better of replacing them as they tend to keep needing repair once they start to dry rot.
Perhaps someone with a like camera, or a McKeun's book can help more. A 9x12 in generally good shape can take some fine photos. It is nearly a 4x5 in negative size. I don't know about the Voightlander lens. Some of the Voightlanders had Skopar lenses, some I think had Zeiss lenses. Both good.
EDIT: It doesn't look like you can get double lens extension, but that would only be needed for closeups. Some of the 9x12 did so, others not. If you can find the series adapter that fits it, you can get aux lenses, but can't use telephoto unless you can extend the bellows farther that 1x. I am not sure about the close up aux lenses. Wide you would shorten the bellows draw, so they could be used.
What you want to look for first is if the bellows are light tight. Then see how/if the shutter works. I think that is an early Compur, as I think all later ones were a variant of the Compur Rapid, going up to 1/200 second.
The lens should not have fungus, but haze. It is cleanable by unscrewing the lens element holders from front and back.
Is it worth fixing up? I can't answer that. I don't know what if anything is wrong, nor how handy you are. Do you have cut film holders? They are getting harder to get, but still show up on ebay. You have to be sure the holders you buy will fit your camera. Most will, but not all.
The shutter might only need flushing with lighter fluid, and then perhaps some light lubricant. The bellows if not light tight, can be "repaired," but you will be better of replacing them as they tend to keep needing repair once they start to dry rot.
Perhaps someone with a like camera, or a McKeun's book can help more. A 9x12 in generally good shape can take some fine photos. It is nearly a 4x5 in negative size. I don't know about the Voightlander lens. Some of the Voightlanders had Skopar lenses, some I think had Zeiss lenses. Both good.
EDIT: It doesn't look like you can get double lens extension, but that would only be needed for closeups. Some of the 9x12 did so, others not. If you can find the series adapter that fits it, you can get aux lenses, but can't use telephoto unless you can extend the bellows farther that 1x. I am not sure about the close up aux lenses. Wide you would shorten the bellows draw, so they could be used.
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karlori
Digital Refugee
Wow, that was quick and informative. I have not yet purchased the camera, and will not se e it in person until it arrives if at all...
The seller is getting rid of her deceased grandparents items and the camera is on sale also, she does not know even that its a still camera so i can not ask her to go and confirm anything.
Any more info would be more than welcomed !
The seller is getting rid of her deceased grandparents items and the camera is on sale also, she does not know even that its a still camera so i can not ask her to go and confirm anything.
Any more info would be more than welcomed !
Proteus617
Established
The cam is a Voigtlander Avus 9x12. The dial set Compur dates from the 20s. I think most of these are snapped up by guys looking for classic glass to mount on a 4x5. Rollfilm backs are tough to find and make about as much sense as shooting 120 in a 4x5. If you are dedicated, you could cut down sheet film. Make sure the bellows are not in bad shape. Also, check out the glass. More than a bit of degradation can pass as character. The front unit of the lens screws out, giving you access to 4 surfaces. If there is haze inside the front unit, it's there to stay (it does not come apart). This is still not a big deal. Also, a dial set Compur is easy to work on, so don't worry about sticky or slow speeds much. Stay away if the ground glass and hood are in bad shape. The more film holders there are the more usable it gets. The old packfilm holders don't count, they are useless these days. I might pay $75 or so for a nice one with a few film holders. Again, most of the value is in the lens and shutter.
oftheherd
Veteran
Well I was mistaken on the cut film holders. Zeiss do not have a slot. Kodaks do, and A.P. (?) have a half slot. Zeiss are solid and so must fit into a deep slot. You definitely want as many cut film holders as you can get. They only hold one piece if film each. I am fortunate to have about 18. Most are Kodak. They work well. If you get the camera, see if the seller doesn't have some around in the possessions of their lost relatives. Otherwise, keep checking ebay and craiglist.
As to this camera, I wasn't sure if it was an Avus or not. The Avus models I am familiar with are later and have the Compur Rapid shutter. The shutter you have should be easier to work on. I am surprised the lens would be sought after for 4x5. I hadn't heard that before. It seems a waste, since the 9x12 are such a good camera as they are. The 9x12 isn't that much smaller than the 4x5, so I guess it would cover the 4x5 alright, but with a little less movement. Still, this Avus appears to have both rise and fall, and side to side shift. It just hurts to think someone would do that to a 9x12. 😡
It is hard to find a ground glass back. I was lucky to find one with some other parts an ebay seller had. You can look for the occasional parts 9x12, but they are rare. If you find one, you might be able to obtain both a gg back and a spare or replacement set of bellows. One other thing to look for is the front surface mirror inside the top viewfinder. They are sometimes missing. All is not lost, as Edmund Scientific sells front surface mirrors that I understand can be used to replace them.
I am inclined to think $75.00 would be al little much, especially without film holders. But the prices lately have been all over the place. I have seen them listed from $40.00 to $999.00. Good luck with your prospective purchase.
As to this camera, I wasn't sure if it was an Avus or not. The Avus models I am familiar with are later and have the Compur Rapid shutter. The shutter you have should be easier to work on. I am surprised the lens would be sought after for 4x5. I hadn't heard that before. It seems a waste, since the 9x12 are such a good camera as they are. The 9x12 isn't that much smaller than the 4x5, so I guess it would cover the 4x5 alright, but with a little less movement. Still, this Avus appears to have both rise and fall, and side to side shift. It just hurts to think someone would do that to a 9x12. 😡
It is hard to find a ground glass back. I was lucky to find one with some other parts an ebay seller had. You can look for the occasional parts 9x12, but they are rare. If you find one, you might be able to obtain both a gg back and a spare or replacement set of bellows. One other thing to look for is the front surface mirror inside the top viewfinder. They are sometimes missing. All is not lost, as Edmund Scientific sells front surface mirrors that I understand can be used to replace them.
I am inclined to think $75.00 would be al little much, especially without film holders. But the prices lately have been all over the place. I have seen them listed from $40.00 to $999.00. Good luck with your prospective purchase.
Phil_F_NM
Camera hacker
I used the same model and size to make into a 6x12 panoramic camera. The value of a user isn't high at all, so finding a decent rollfilm back that you can stick on & forget is definitely a plus unless you want to shoot plates. These fold up into such a small box that is made of steel, so it's quite strong. You can add things like proper modern bubble levels and a decent finder for very little money. I used a Wollensak 90mm f/6.8 optar on mine and it made some great photos.
Here's the discussion thread:
http://rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85548&highlight=avus&page=3
Phil Forrest
Here's the discussion thread:
http://rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85548&highlight=avus&page=3
Phil Forrest
oftheherd
Veteran
BTW, I meant to ask if there is a site that discusses use of these old lenses for 4x5? I had never heard of that and think it is a waste of a fine old camera. Still, it would be interesting to read about.
I also noted you mention of using roll film backs. I have a couple for 4x5. It does allow use of a less expensive film format, but retains use with a camera that has full movements. The same applies to 9x12. You don't usually get full movements, but rise and fall isn't uncommon, and shift only a little less common.
Chippy mentioned some time ago that there were some that had full front movements. I have never seen one but Chippy's knowledge of cameras isn't to be sneezed at. He also mentioned that some had interchangeable lenses. At the time he mentioned it, I had never seen one. I now own one, but alas, have only one lens for it. I do have attachments for others to give tele, wide, and closeup photos.
Phil_F_NM
Camera hacker
Rada made a rollfilm back for 9x12 plate cameras that is not too expensive, but kind of hard to find. They are VERY well built and have the ability to be masked for 6x6, 6x7 and 6x9. The sample I got a few years ago didn't have the masks and anyways, I wanted it for my 6x12 project. I removed a few millimeters from either side of the film gate and opened it up to 113mm.
They are great cameras and if you can find the accessories, they have a decent system available for use.
Phil Forrest
They are great cameras and if you can find the accessories, they have a decent system available for use.
Phil Forrest
Kolame
Established
Excuse the Off-Topic please, but what the hell is GAS standing for? Read it quite a lot, in the last time... Thanks!
oftheherd
Veteran
Well, I need to make another correction. I tried a Welta back on a Zeiss Ikon I have and it fits OK. That is more significant as the Welta back has a shorter depth on the inside part of the slot that protrudes to fit down the back of the 9x12 gg/film holder. Apparently Zeiss made more than one kind of back as I do have some holders that seem to be 9x12 that are thick and do not have a slot down the sides.
Kolama - GAS is an accronym for Gear Acquisition Syndrome. Pay no attention to it. Nobody in the RFF forums ever suffers from GAS. And don't worry if you should become infected, there are 12 step programs in even small cities where RFF members number more than 3. 😀 😀 😀
Kolame
Established
Thank you!