what's the external (silver color) material on a collapsible Industar-22?

[Juan Valdenebro]

Hi, a few days ago, I remembered -once again- I never tried any Russian lens... And as I never tried any collapsible lens either, I ordered a collapsible 50 3.5 Industar-22... I've never tried any Barnack, so I'm just ordering one for my new lens, and my main interest is playing with them together -my new toy- beyond photography: I want to make the silver lens and camera dark or black, and I plan to do it myself... I'm not thinking of a perfect result: in fact I want a more manual, brush, variable result in finish and tone... I don't need -either- a painting that lasts a lot: I know I'll get silver brassing easily after doing my job... Before looking for the products I could use for painting or (better) chemically darkening the silver tone (as when in jewelry a black patina is used over silver) I must be sure what's the lens material (and also the IIIC's silver plate and buttons' material...) Chrome? Anyone knowing for sure? Anyone knowing about metals or materials to darken them?

Cheers,

Juan

 

[paulfish4570]

Brian Sweeney knows all about these things.
The adjustment rings, metal in the optical unit and such are aluminum. The barrel itself MAY be chromed brass.
I imagine you would have to anodize the aluminum parts. As for the barrel - if it IS chromed brass - you might have to re-chrome in matte black chrome. If the barrel is aluminum, then anodizing for it, too.
Perhaps you could find a small shop fabricator that could do the anodizing for you ...

 

[MartinP]

Hmmm, I have a collapsable I-22 on a nice Zorki-1 and all the metalwork is brass, no aluminium at all that I can see. The barrel is chromed and the rest of the outside parts are too, but the interior has a matt-black paint over brass.

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

Thanks, Paul... I guess all that is kind of complicated and requires to open the lens and lots of things I can't do... I'm looking for a less perfect, less resistant painting or darkening... I wouldn't mind doing it again once a year if it's getting lost too much... I want a cheap and non-factory look... I know plain paint isn't a good idea: but there must be products for every metal to at least darken them...

Cheers,

Juan

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

Hmmm, I have a collapsable I-22 on a nice Zorki-1 and all the metalwork is brass, no aluminium at all that I can see. The barrel is chromed and the rest of the outside parts are too, but the interior has a matt-black paint over brass.

Hi Martin... Then I should find out available substances to chemically affect and darken chromed brass for the lens and maybe the IIIC... I don't care if the final tone is neutral (gray or black) or if it's dark brown or dark green...

Cheers,

Juan

 

[normclarke]

Hi Juan,
If you can de-chrome your lens back to the base metal Birchwood Casey Brass Black would colour it to a grey/black finish. It is an acid based liquid that imparts a matt finish to base metals, easy to apply. Available on the net.

Best,

normclarke

 

[johannielscom]

I'm with Peter, there is no aluminium on the collapsible Industar 22, it's all brass with chrome. The Industar-61 OTOH does almost certainly consist of aluminium parts. A mixup?

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

Hi Juan,
If you can de-chrome your lens back to the base metal Birchwood Casey Brass Black would colour it to a grey/black finish. It is an acid based liquid that imparts a matt finish to base metals, easy to apply. Available on the net.

Best,

normclarke

Hi normclarke,

Thanks a lot! That's the kind of info I'm looking for... Can I de-chrome the lens (its visible parts) by myself with any product?

Cheers,

Juan

 

[greyelm]

Don't forget that FSU lenses may need shimming to work on a Leica. Also make sure that the IIIC is not one of the military issues as messing with it will render it worthless.

Have you seen this thread?

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91172

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

Don't forget that FSU lenses may need shimming to work on a Leica. Also make sure that the IIIC is not one of the military issues as messing with it will render it worthless.

Have you seen this thread?

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91172

Hi greyelm,

Nice info there... Thanks! My situation is a bit different, though... I'm trying to make my camera and lens look different to black painted cameras... I want to avoid a quality finish: I want a mix of changing but "monochromatic" tones... No "industrial" perfect product... Any imprecise result will make me happy... I guess if I can find an easy way to de-chrome them applying some chemicals, then I'll be able to treat and darken them to some degree: I just don't want silver, shining clear surfaces... I don't care about the finish / durability as long as the general look has no silver...

Cheers,

Juan

 

[johannielscom]

I de-chromed an M3 using acid and electrolysis.

Used a motorcycle battery charger, hooked the camera part up to the + and used a piece of led attached to the - IIRC. Low voltages (and amperage) make for the best result.

Re painting was a horrendous affair though, no paint would stick to the brass.

I have another top and bottom plate of an M3 that I de-chromed, and pulled out as soon as nickel started to show. Glow is nickel-like, but almost with a pink hue.

I'm selling this for little money, should anyone be interested. No serial number, it was eradicated by the factory as the body was parted out.

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

Yet I can't believe NOTHING IN THE UNIVERSE reacts on chrome darkening it... There must be something... Something at least a bit better than paint over chrome...

Cheers,

Juan

 

[former member]

I've worked on four collapsible I-50's, three were heavy chrome over brass and the last was a beautiful black lacquer paint job with white lettering.

I'm not going to dechrome mine, but would suggest trying primer over the brass before painting black. That is from an old Pop Photo article on maiking a Black Contax II. Dechromed the brass using a toy train transformer, painted with primer, then black paint, then baked in a toaster over. Take the glass out before baking. One reader of the Pop photo article painted and cooked his camera, was too lazy to take the top and bottom plate off.

The Rigid I-50 is aluminum.

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

Thank you, Brian!

Cheers,

Juan

 

[wolves3012]

Juan,

The whole point of chromium plating is that (if properly done) it's very hard wearing and resistant to staining. No paint will stick to it, that I can promise (most of my working life was spent in surface coatings, so I speak from experience). Likewise, brass is a major headache to paint and the proper primer is mandatory. You will have to de-chrome the plated parts to gain any success, simple as that and sorry to disappoint you. It is possible to chrome-plate in a black finish but that is not an after-plating process either.

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

Hi wolves3012,

Thanks for posting... I'm glad to have your experienced words here... I know a bit too (after reading these days) and I agree no paint can be used on chrome... I also know the differences between just a few micras chroming and hard chroming, and how great brass is for very resistant chroming, so my interest is (as I don't want to take lens or camera to parts for de-chroming) to find some substance able to affect or damage chroming: as I'm not after a beautiful finish, and I'd like an uneven surface tone, maybe an acid or other chemical could help me affect the chroming... There must be something that's really bad for chroming... Do you know which substances affect chroming the most?

Cheers,

Juan

 

[MartinP]

Long ago I was with a group who found bits of a plane that had crashed in the fifties. In a totally wrecked engine were beautifully shiny, un-corroded chrome tappets . . . and this after (then) forty years under an acidic peat bog. Admittedly that was probably very good quality chrome, but there was a dramatic difference to the rest of the alloy and steel parts !

Even if you could paint the collapsible lens it would then be too thick to retract. How about doing something 'horrible' with a normal alloy Industar-50, or an I-61, instead ?

 

[paulfish4570]

OK, boy was I wrong about the I-22 ... 🙁

Looks like you will have to go rigid. But if you go rigid, black versions of the I-50 and J-8 already exist.
So, why collapsible? Are you trying to get the most compact package?

 

[paulfish4570]

My "black" I-61 still has silver leading edges on some of the rings ...

 

[wolves3012]

Hi wolves3012,

Thanks for posting... I'm glad to have your experienced words here... I know a bit too (after reading these days) and I agree no paint can be used on chrome... I also know the differences between just a few micras chroming and hard chroming, and how great brass is for very resistant chroming, so my interest is (as I don't want to take lens or camera to parts for de-chroming) to find some substance able to affect or damage chroming: as I'm not after a beautiful finish, and I'd like an uneven surface tone, maybe an acid or other chemical could help me affect the chroming... There must be something that's really bad for chroming... Do you know which substances affect chroming the most?

Cheers,

Juan

Juan,

Chromium is a very hard metal that forms a thin layer of oxide on its surface, which prevents further attack. That layer is "self-healing", any damage gets oxidised with a new layer very quickly. The only chemicals that will attack the oxide are the sort that (a) you are unlikely to find available, (b) will attack the other parts of the lens and (c) you really don't want to be handling! Seriously, de-chrome it or don't bother. Do you really have to use a collapsible? The aluminium I-50 (rigid) would be a much easier lens to "modify".