ederek
Well-known
Doug, thanks for sharing. Your compositions are fantastic.
It's interesting how the film->digital switch has a full spectrum; from not altering behavior at all, to a relatively radical shift to the other side such as ampguy shared with the Grand Palouse wheatfield compositions. All perfectly valid approaches
I'd suggest there is a much broader distribution in click-rate in the digital population than in the film user population, and that total clicks (the area under the curve), is probably significantly larger for the digital population (not that some may shoot fewer digital than film, especially if it leaves one feeling less inspired).
Maybe as folks share their own patterns here, the degree to which this is the case will emerge...
I do a lot of "playing" and experimenting with digital that I'd never dream of doing w/ film. It may not be a great approach, but I wouldn't say I "just shoot the same picture again and again, for no better reason than because can." (that was one of Rogers' definitions of Overshooting in the Sooner of later thread.
Not trying to judge / debate a reasonable click-rate here (refer to Rogers thread for that), but rather query the spectrum that is out there. Do we really have a sense of how many digital images are being captured?? At least with film there were film production and sales numbers, lab development revenues and other indicators of analog click-rate. How can we estimate this with digital without sharing? Mine EXIF data from Flickr?
In just over a year, I shot 15 rolls with the M4. That was quite a bit less than the year prior when first learning to handle a rangefinder.
BenZ - perhaps amguy was just being provocative to elicit responses Do you shoot a digital-M, and if so did you shoot film previously or concurrently today?
ruslan - good data point - any issues at all over that time? Any notion of needing a tuneup (a "Digital CLA") at some point?
It's interesting how the film->digital switch has a full spectrum; from not altering behavior at all, to a relatively radical shift to the other side such as ampguy shared with the Grand Palouse wheatfield compositions. All perfectly valid approaches
I'd suggest there is a much broader distribution in click-rate in the digital population than in the film user population, and that total clicks (the area under the curve), is probably significantly larger for the digital population (not that some may shoot fewer digital than film, especially if it leaves one feeling less inspired).
Maybe as folks share their own patterns here, the degree to which this is the case will emerge...
I do a lot of "playing" and experimenting with digital that I'd never dream of doing w/ film. It may not be a great approach, but I wouldn't say I "just shoot the same picture again and again, for no better reason than because can." (that was one of Rogers' definitions of Overshooting in the Sooner of later thread.
Not trying to judge / debate a reasonable click-rate here (refer to Rogers thread for that), but rather query the spectrum that is out there. Do we really have a sense of how many digital images are being captured?? At least with film there were film production and sales numbers, lab development revenues and other indicators of analog click-rate. How can we estimate this with digital without sharing? Mine EXIF data from Flickr?
In just over a year, I shot 15 rolls with the M4. That was quite a bit less than the year prior when first learning to handle a rangefinder.
BenZ - perhaps amguy was just being provocative to elicit responses
Do you shoot a digital-M, and if so did you shoot film previously or concurrently today?ruslan - good data point - any issues at all over that time? Any notion of needing a tuneup (a "Digital CLA") at some point?
ederek
Well-known
^^ Thank you Tim. I do wonder about shutter life (and rewind motor, etc.), and if I can go to 200K, or 500K before expecting to have issues.
I'm afraid to use the M for Stop Motion or Time Lapse photography for this reason (though have no issues putting miles on the 5D that way). Have even heard of the aperture iris failing in a lens due to opening/closing each click (a problem we wouldn't experience with an M!).
I'm afraid to use the M for Stop Motion or Time Lapse photography for this reason (though have no issues putting miles on the 5D that way). Have even heard of the aperture iris failing in a lens due to opening/closing each click (a problem we wouldn't experience with an M!).
tbarker13
shooter of stuff
This past year, I've been doing a lot of portrait work. I've noticed a couple different styles of portrait photographers.
Some of them will micromanage a model - making minute adjustments and getting everything right - before tripping the shutter. They shoot very few images during the session.
My sessions are very different. My goal is to engage the subject in conversation and get them to essentially forget the camera is there. I do very little managing of poses. I make a few suggestions (often just a bit of fine tuning) here and there. All the while, I be shooting.
I may shoot 30-40 images of one particular look/pose. When it's all said and done, I'll have 1,000 or more shots from a 3-4 hour session. That may sound like a lot. But when i go through the editing, I'm often amazed at how different two images can be - even taken a second apart.
If I cut my shooting in half, I'm sure I would still be happy with the results. But I don't know if I would be as happy.
Some of them will micromanage a model - making minute adjustments and getting everything right - before tripping the shutter. They shoot very few images during the session.
My sessions are very different. My goal is to engage the subject in conversation and get them to essentially forget the camera is there. I do very little managing of poses. I make a few suggestions (often just a bit of fine tuning) here and there. All the while, I be shooting.
I may shoot 30-40 images of one particular look/pose. When it's all said and done, I'll have 1,000 or more shots from a 3-4 hour session. That may sound like a lot. But when i go through the editing, I'm often amazed at how different two images can be - even taken a second apart.
If I cut my shooting in half, I'm sure I would still be happy with the results. But I don't know if I would be as happy.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Well, yes.
As for Ampguy's I wouldn't call taking 250 photos an hour/day/week/month with 25 keepers a waste, I'd be pleased to have those 25 great photos. But that is me., I'd say that 250/hour (just over one pic every 15 seconds for a whole hour) does rather point to 'spray and pray', especially when done on a regular basis.
Even when I've been at the most interesting photo opportunities of my life (Lhasa uprising day, commemoratng the Tibetan uprising against the Chinese in 1959, or dawn on the Ganges) I suspect that 250/hour would almost certainly indicate overshooting for me. Sure, 250/day is easy, and I've done it many times, but there are days when I don't do anything interesting so I don't take pictures.
I lead a reasonably interesting and varied life, but today (for example) I was answering correspondence, designing and ordering personalized business cards for photokina, sorting out appointments for photokina, and working on the Land Rover. Not really of much interest to anyone, even on Facebook. Tomorrow I'm driving down to the Pyrenees, a journey I've made many times, and on Saturday Frances (and possibly I) will be at the baths at St. Thomas -- something else I've photographed often. How much variety am I going to introduce?
Ampguy and I must also have different definitions of 'keepers' and 'great photos', because there have been few if any days (never mind hours) in the last 45 years that I have produced 25 'great photos'and very few weeks where I've done so. Indeed, I'd hesitate to claim 25 'great photos' a year, and for that matter, I have no dfficulty in setting the bar high enough that I haven't produced 25 really great photos (such as Willy Ronis's 'Provençal Nude or Bill Brandt's picture of the coal gatherer) to date.
Both "I shoot more than you" and "I can get 5 great pictures with 6 exposures" are essentially pissing contests, alongside "I can hold a 90mm steady at 1/15 second" and "I favour stand development for 6 hours instead of the miserable 1 hour that you use." Surprisingly few advocates of extremes - any extremes - are good photographers, though of course, this does not mean that extremes or (photographic) extremism are invariably doomed to failure. Just usually.
Cheers,
R.
Bobfrance
Over Exposed
35000 ish. I've had it about 18 months.
It's an ex-demo and came to me with 30000+ on it.
It's an ex-demo and came to me with 30000+ on it.
nlubis
Well-known
Mine is around 5000+.
Have had it for about 10 months, and the previous owner (pro) had the shutter replaced because it was broken.
Good to hear people are at 80K clicks and counting.
Have had it for about 10 months, and the previous owner (pro) had the shutter replaced because it was broken.
Good to hear people are at 80K clicks and counting.
ampguy
Veteran
I'd agree with Roger
I'd agree with Roger
about the 250/hr. and that was not a good example. Although I'm sure we both agree that fashion/glamour/sports folks with non RF's do that kind of shooting with their motor drive systems. I recall talking to one fashion photographer and he said it wasn't unusual to shoot 400 frames in a 1 or 2 hour session, and later get maybe a dozen usable ones with processing.
250 shots a day or week are very easy to do on a nature walk or while traveling. I doubt if I get 25 or 10% keepers, and by keepers, I mean good photos that to me are worth printing up and sharing with friends family, and hanging on the wall and framing if space.
On a casual daily walk, maybe 50-100 depending on what's interesting and how long the walk.
The times I have shot as fast as I could were times when say a deer was moving outside and there were only a few seconds to try to get a best shot, or when shooting orcas on the San Juan Islands at Lime Kiln point - they were jumping up in families (the most I got was 5 at a time out of the water), but all over the place within about 120 degrees from our lighthouse area point. The pros setup there, and there were a few, were also setup to shoot quickly, but not nimbly, since they had very long lenses, and one minute the whales might be close and far left, and the next minute 100 yards out and to the far right.
I've tried slowing down on purpose, and while this might work for others, for me, it just results in less photos, and in less keepers, for me.
For still life and landscapes, I do think about the composition, and lighting and angles, and will move, change lenses, or wait for better lighting, but then shoot a lot of photos.
I just don't see the point of not taking a great photo, when you see something that in the VF that might make a great photo. And if that's 250 photos a day, then so be it.
I'd agree with Roger
about the 250/hr. and that was not a good example. Although I'm sure we both agree that fashion/glamour/sports folks with non RF's do that kind of shooting with their motor drive systems. I recall talking to one fashion photographer and he said it wasn't unusual to shoot 400 frames in a 1 or 2 hour session, and later get maybe a dozen usable ones with processing.
250 shots a day or week are very easy to do on a nature walk or while traveling. I doubt if I get 25 or 10% keepers, and by keepers, I mean good photos that to me are worth printing up and sharing with friends family, and hanging on the wall and framing if space.
On a casual daily walk, maybe 50-100 depending on what's interesting and how long the walk.
The times I have shot as fast as I could were times when say a deer was moving outside and there were only a few seconds to try to get a best shot, or when shooting orcas on the San Juan Islands at Lime Kiln point - they were jumping up in families (the most I got was 5 at a time out of the water), but all over the place within about 120 degrees from our lighthouse area point. The pros setup there, and there were a few, were also setup to shoot quickly, but not nimbly, since they had very long lenses, and one minute the whales might be close and far left, and the next minute 100 yards out and to the far right.
I've tried slowing down on purpose, and while this might work for others, for me, it just results in less photos, and in less keepers, for me.
For still life and landscapes, I do think about the composition, and lighting and angles, and will move, change lenses, or wait for better lighting, but then shoot a lot of photos.
I just don't see the point of not taking a great photo, when you see something that in the VF that might make a great photo. And if that's 250 photos a day, then so be it.
Ben Z
Veteran
BenZ - perhaps amguy was just being provocative to elicit responses
I shoot an M8, before it an Epson RD1. But mostly I shoot a Canon 5D and 20D. I like the fact the M8 and its lenses are small and fit in a little bag which is easy to carry close to the body when I travel, such as on trains, subways, crowded streets etc, and also not a burden when I decide to sit down in a restaurant. Otherwise I prefer the WYSIWYG viewfinding of an SLR, I find modern AF much more useful shooting erratically-moving subjects with lenses above 50mm shot wide open for shallow DOF, I like the convenience of zooms, I like Image Stabilizer, I like the graphic info in the viewfinder, and a bunch of other things. It was the same when I did shoot film (which I rarely do anymore...no decent labs around here anymore, and can't seem to motivate myself to develop and scan).
atufte1@mac.com
Alexander Tufte
My first M8 - 88.000 exposures
My Second M8 - 19.000 exposures and still counting...(for both)
My Second M8 - 19.000 exposures and still counting...(for both)
jamato8
Corroding tank M9 35 ASPH
Where do you get how many shots have been taken? I can see by continuous numbering but with the latest firmware on the M9 it started all over at 1, which isn't what I wanted.
ederek
Well-known
jamato8 - if you had a card with the last image on it before the firmware, and then shot with that following the firmware upgrade, it would continue numbering from there (may need to have an option set as well, would have to look).
Good to hear bodies are running along with some of the higher numbers.
I think the mistake I made when opening the thread was to ask the time period in addition to total clicks, which gets at shot rate. Let's keep it to pure clicks so we have a sense of device life, versus an assessment of shooting style..
For overshooting discussion, Roger has a thread title "Sooner or later..." -> HERE.
Good to hear bodies are running along with some of the higher numbers.
I think the mistake I made when opening the thread was to ask the time period in addition to total clicks, which gets at shot rate. Let's keep it to pure clicks so we have a sense of device life, versus an assessment of shooting style..
For overshooting discussion, Roger has a thread title "Sooner or later..." -> HERE.
There are a couple of options for file numbering in the M8 menu... See:
Picture Numbering
--Continuously
--Standard
--Set Back Now
“Standard” sets the file number to start at 1 on a card with no files. This is my preference, as it simulates exposure numbering on film, and this is consistent with my record keeping methods.
There is various software that can read the EXIF data and correctly interpret one field which reports total clicks. An example is “M8Info” that tells the Shutter Count. M8Info is the easiest solution I've seen. On their website (http://www.soens.de/swpage/swpage.html) I see they have both Mac and Windows versions, as well as similar applications M9Info, CanCount, NiCount, and D3Info.
Picture Numbering
--Continuously
--Standard
--Set Back Now
“Standard” sets the file number to start at 1 on a card with no files. This is my preference, as it simulates exposure numbering on film, and this is consistent with my record keeping methods.
There is various software that can read the EXIF data and correctly interpret one field which reports total clicks. An example is “M8Info” that tells the Shutter Count. M8Info is the easiest solution I've seen. On their website (http://www.soens.de/swpage/swpage.html) I see they have both Mac and Windows versions, as well as similar applications M9Info, CanCount, NiCount, and D3Info.
Attachments
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There are other EXIF readers which may report "Image Unique ID" (for any particular picture file containing EXIF data) in hexadecimal numbering. If you use a Mac, the little Calculator program that comes with the OS has a "programmer" mode... If you type the hex number in there (my example with the same file as seen by M8Inf above shows this number as 70b), then switch back to Basic or Scientific mode, the number is resolved into decimal numbering (1803 in this example). Perhaps Windows or other OS has a similar utility.
jcrutcher
Veteran
Bought mine used in June of 2010. It had 4000 clicks and I've added 921 for a total of 4921. I shot my Leica Film cameras more. I do like the M8 and plan to use it more.
naruto
GASitis.. finally cured?
After 8 months of usage, I have shot 1400 pics on my M8. I don't think I am going to miss it when it's off later this week...
@Ted: beautiful shots. I love the fields shot. Could you make available a Wallpaper version of it ? *pretty please*
@Ted: beautiful shots. I love the fields shot. Could you make available a Wallpaper version of it ? *pretty please*
ampguy
Veteran
sure
sure
Thanks, the vertical one with road line at the bottom?
Just email me your email, and I'll email you the original JPG.
sure
Thanks, the vertical one with road line at the bottom?
Just email me your email, and I'll email you the original JPG.
After 8 months of usage, I have shot 1400 pics on my M8. I don't think I am going to miss it when it's off later this week...
@Ted: beautiful shots. I love the fields shot. Could you make available a Wallpaper version of it ? *pretty please*
mwooten
light user
8,345 images on my RD1s since this time in '06.
naruto
GASitis.. finally cured?
Ted, I have sent you an email using the RFF email system.
Gary Sandhu
Well-known
9464 in about 18 months on M8; first M8 had about 5000 on it. (I shoot with a d700 and film as well)
jamato8
Corroding tank M9 35 ASPH
I can't seem to find how to set continuous number on my M9. I had it before the latest firmware but now I can't seem to set to find the numbering system for images.