If you like old black and white film and Leicas ... you'll love this!

Does your scanner have 35 mm film strip holder? That might help.

Would really love to se the Java roll.
 
Pherdinand said:
might be a good idea to open them when your friend is around (if you didnt do it yet).
Just to avoid misunderstandings if they are in bad shape.
Click to expand...

Seems like a good idea, given that there is a chance that the negs might crumble or break as they are unrolled.
 
A friend of mine had an opportunity like this last year. The son of an old man he knows brought him a couple rolls of film that were in the old Leica canisters, but they were a heavy cardboard type canister, not the metal ones like in you pics. My friend is a pro photographer so the son asked if he could scan the rolls for him so he could see what's on them and share it with his family.
Well, the sons father was a German soldier during WWII and a photographer too. The rolls contained pics of a downed American plane, some shots from a sea port, and shots of an aerial battle from the deck of a ship. My friend gave me copies of the scans. We were the first people to see these since the father developed them and put them away during the war. Great stuff.

Hope you get some good stuff there, have fun!
 
Hm - I also tried to decypher the text on the box lid, but the lower half is out of focus. I managed to read 'Agfa Isopan' on the bottom half - the rest is both out of focus and low-contrast.

I have a similar problem here: I recently found three large boxes with some 50 negatives that my father shot between 1932 and 1946 (some of it could be historically interesting as it was apparently shot in occupied France, Belgium and Serbia, and there ought to be some films of my father's deployments in Norway and Finland somewhere), mostly shot on Agfa Isopan bw negative film. The film had a sensitivity of 17 DIN, which is the equivalent of 40 ASA.

The films I have were stored in tin boxes and appear to be in perfect shape. The films were mostly rolled up uncut in heavy cardboard canisters. It is possible to unroll them without breaking them, but they also are heavily curled. I am therefore also looking for instructions how to uncurl them for scanning without risking to destroy them.

CAUTION: It's very likely that this is nitro film, i.e. it might be highly flammable! Nitro film can catch fire without any external cause at temperatures of equal to greater than 38 degrees C. Once it burns, it is very hard to extinguish. In Germany, most films were made of nitro material up until 1952. Working with this type of film requires to follow certain safety measures!

Here's a link to a list of films that are made of nitrocellulose, as well as a description of how to determine if unknown material consists of nitro material (sorry - in German).
 
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Arjay said:
Hm - I also tried to decypher the text on the box lid, but the lower half is out of focus. I managed to read 'Agfa Isopan' on the bottom half - the rest is both out of focus and low-contrast.

I have a similar problem here: I recently found three large boxes with some 50 negatives that my father shot between 1932 and 1946 (some of it could be historically interesting as it was apparently shot in occupied France, Belgium and Serbia, and there ought to be some films of my father's deployments in Norway and Finland somewhere), mostly shot on Agfa Isopan bw negative film. The film had a sensitivity of 17 DIN, which is the equivalent of 40 ASA.

The films I have were stored in tin boxes and appear to be in perfect shape. The films were mostly rolled up uncut in heavy cardboard canisters. It is possible to unroll them without breaking them, but they also are heavily curled. I am therefore also looking for instructions how to uncurl them for scanning without risking to destroy them.

CAUTION: It's very likely that this is nitro film, i.e. it might be highly flammable! Nitro film can catch fire without any external cause at temperatures of equal to greater than 38 degrees C. Once it burns, it is very hard to extinguish. In Germany, most films were made of nitro material up until 1952. Working with this type of film requires to follow certain safety measures!

Here's a link to a list of films that are made of nitrocellulose, as well as a description of how to determine if unknown material consists of nitro material (sorry - in German).
Click to expand...

Keith - I see the Kodak Panatomic listed there as well as the Agfa Isopan. That could be a problem whether it has even survived, and then to keep it from igniting on you.

Is there a German reader who can look at that article and see if it is giving instructions for treating the film to make it less prone to burning?
 
Google translate makes a decent job of the translation...

Hmmm, if that link works of course. It sounds as though the stuff might be best opened verrrrrry carefully, in cool weather, and well away from the remainder of the negatives !
 
oftheherd said:
Is there a German reader who can look at that article and see if it is giving instructions for treating the film to make it less prone to burning?
Click to expand...

I read the article. The gist (with regards to keeping the film from igniting):

- the chance of self-ignition is minimized by storing @ 8-12 deg. Celsius (fridge temperature) and a humidity of 40-45%. Keeping temperature and humidity stable is recommended

- nitrate film gasses out, and the storage in tight containers (which allow accumulation of gas) is especially dangerous!! (Also, another reason to keep nitrate film away from the rest of your archive is the damaging effect of the (unignited) gas on other archival stuff.)

- always try to handle as little film at one time as possible

Take nitrate film seriously! The article mentions the catastrophic fire that broke out in a German state archive, even though the dangerous nature of the films was known and all precautions had been taken.

All the best, Ljós
 
Ljós said:
I read the article. The gist (with regards to keeping the film from igniting):

- the chance of self-ignition is minimized by storing @ 8-12 deg. Celsius (fridge temperature) and a humidity of 40-45%. Keeping temperature and humidity stable is recommended

- nitrate film gasses out, and the storage in tight containers (which allow accumulation of gas) is especially dangerous!! (Also, another reason to keep nitrate film away from the rest of your archive is the damaging effect of the (unignited) gas on other archival stuff.)

- always try to handle as little film at one time as possible

Take nitrate film seriously! The article mentions the catastrophic fire that broke out in a German state archive, even though the dangerous nature of the films was known and all precautions had been taken.

All the best, Ljós
Click to expand...

Thanks Ljos. I was hoping there was something else that could be done because of the photos of beakers/measurers.
 
oftheherd said:
Is there a German reader who can look at that article and see if it is giving instructions for treating the film to make it less prone to burning?
Click to expand...

Just read the article. It just gives detailed instructions on how to recognize nitrate-based film, not how to make it less prone to burning.

It also says that nitrate-based films easily shrink over time and might not fit into gears made for standard hole distances - this could explain some of the scanning problems I had (scanner getting stuck after a few photos), which I attributed to curling.

The article says the film can start burning at as low as 38 degrees Celcius.

Roland.
 
Here, I found some more info on nitro-based film. The link is in Germann, but it contains supplemental material in English.

You will find three links of combustion experiments with nitro film (MPEG videos) - the stuff even continues to burn underwater!

The last three links on that page lead to PDF documents that are in English and which talk about safety precautions for handling nitro-based film.

BTW, the page also contains a photograph of the German federal archive building for nitro-based films in Hoppegarten near Berlin. It's not without reason that the building looks a lot like an army ammunition storage facility.

Translation of the image caption:

The new magazines for nitro cellulose films in the Hoppegarten service center offer space for 80,000 rolls. In the foreground, you can see a rampart that intercepts the blast of a potential explosion, and behind it the storage facilities with individually climatized chambers that are monitored via building automation.
Click to expand...
 
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I went through all the films this morning and they're all intact and stay that way when extended which is good. The Agfa appears to be in the best condition and has the least resistence to being unraveled ... I've used five year old Ilford that was worse! 😛

There's film marked ... Eastman Nitrate, a couple of rolls of something called Perutz Perpantic, Several rolls of the Agfa though it only says Agfa with no other info, a roll marked Panatomic Nitrate and the rest is marked Kodak Panatomic.

The guy who handed me this film isn't precious at all about what could potentially happen when I start trying to scan it regarding any damage ... he's actually quite prepared to have the film cut into strips for scanning if that's what it takes to see what's there ... I'd prefer not to do that personally! I'll get some newton glass holders from better scanning which should allow me to run the film through the negative holder of the scanner without having to clip the top part in place and thus avoiding having to cut it into strips of six ... well thats the plan! 😀

My attitude is all care but no responsibility! 🙂

I took a couple of more shots in natural light of the lid and the canisters which makes it all much easier to decipher with the increased sharpness and contrast.


DSC_1784.jpg



DSC_1785.jpg
 
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Can you possibly hang them with a weight and a humidifier under them in something like a drying cabinet, but kind of the opposite? This would allow the film rolls to naturally relax with some humidity and gravity to assist. Just keep the temperature down!
This is incredibly fascinating.

Phil Forrest
 
I meant to mention that the owner of the negs has no issue with me posting images here so as I get results I'll share them! 🙂
 
I've scanned negs in similar condition, though I had some great scanners at my disposal, drum scanners, and then some superres flatbeds.

I never rewet or did anything to the emulsion, ever, I just tried to get a digital image and leave the rest to photoshop. I made a glass thing, kind of like when you make a contact sheet, to keep the negs flat (I had odd sized single cut negs that were even too flat to bed scan). Slides were easier as you can just put them in a negative englarger with some bellows and a dslr.

The biggest problem I had was it seemed all the negatives had cracks in the emulsion, so many that a single negative, if you wanted to be perfect, could take over an hour in photoshop.
 
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