goamules
Well-known
Hi, I won a Model Y Flash unit for my Canon IVSB. While awaiting it, does anyone know what type of battery it uses, and if it needs a capacitor? I want to get it up and running for Christmas, and if it's that special 22.5 volt, I need to get ordering one.
I have a few clear Sylvania M3 bulbs, but I guess they aren't for color?
Garrett
I have a few clear Sylvania M3 bulbs, but I guess they aren't for color?
Garrett
CanonRFinder
Well-known
Following is an extract from what I have written about the Flash Unit Y for my accessory book ...if I get around to it as the financial climate now makes it unviable. In addition, there are two Battery Extension Cases, Type A and Type B. Type A accepted THREE D size batteries or additional Capacitors while Type B accepts TWO D batteries or two capacitors. These Additional Cases very rarely appear on eBay.
Quote ( unedited)
"In September 1952 the new Canon Flash Unit model Y was introduced into the market to replace the older Model X and deluxe X flash outfits. Similar in style to the model X unit, the model Y had some notable improvements over its predecessor. The removable 5” Adapter head was now fixed to the main flash body by four screws and the socket at the back of the head that once accepted the 5” and 7” reflector was missing. The bulb eject button was now recessed further into the head of the unit to prevent accidental ejection of the bulb. A permanent Micro-Sync dial was now incorporated within the body of the model Y unit and occupied the position of the now defunct adapter head eject button and micro-sync sockets.
Quote ( unedited)
"In September 1952 the new Canon Flash Unit model Y was introduced into the market to replace the older Model X and deluxe X flash outfits. Similar in style to the model X unit, the model Y had some notable improvements over its predecessor. The removable 5” Adapter head was now fixed to the main flash body by four screws and the socket at the back of the head that once accepted the 5” and 7” reflector was missing. The bulb eject button was now recessed further into the head of the unit to prevent accidental ejection of the bulb. A permanent Micro-Sync dial was now incorporated within the body of the model Y unit and occupied the position of the now defunct adapter head eject button and micro-sync sockets.
Attaching the Model Y flash outfit to the synchronised cameras or adjusting the beam width and removing the 5” reflector, followed the same procedure as used when fitting the Model X outfits to the cameras. Located either side of the red bulb test button on the body of the flash Y outfits were two sets of sockets. These were used for the Extension cords A or B, and Canon’s unique Flash Tester.
It is important to read the instructions on the cards supplied with the instruction books as certain types of bulbs cannot be used with some Canon Rangefinder cameras. If these cards were misplaced then it would not be possible to calculate the Micro-Sync settings.
When initially released onto the market, there were two versions of the Flash Unit Y available. Physically there was no difference between the two types, except for the power sources, contained within the outfits. The Flash Unit Y outfits, consisted of Main Unit housing, 5” reflector and a Capacitor Cell with 22.5V battery, were sold as the Flash Model YK outfit. Replacing the Capacitor with a Penlight Battery Cartridge, it was then sold as a Flash Model YL outfit.
With the introduction of the improved models, IVSB2 and later the IIS2 and IIF2, in August 1954, the Flash Unit Y Instruction books, may have contained cards that indicated the slowest speed at “1-30”. By July 1955, these cards had been replaced in the instruction books by, two integral double pages, which folded up. On these pages were charts describing the Micro-Syncs settings for the Flash Unit Model YK (Capacitor cell) and Flash Unit Model YL (4 Penlight batteries).
The Flash Unit Y was presented in an optional wedge shaped, cowhide leather case. Moving two opposing zippers from the top of the case to the thinner bottom section opened the case, exposing the inside lined with red velvet. The three main components of the Flash Unit Y are situated in their individual locations on the bottom section of the case. The Main Flash housing and Capacitor or Penlight Battery Case were strapped in, while the 5” reflector was held firmly in place in-between the top of the case and a crescent shaped piece of leather. A plastic cover went over the front of the reflector when packed away. The top lid had a large suede pocket with the name of the unit embossed in gold lettering, on the pocket. This pocket could also hold extra bulbs and instruction books.
Canon also released alongside the Flash Unit Y, a Side Lighting Unit Y. This varied from the previous model X side lighting unit in that it had a fixed head; no slot for the 7” reflector and the Adapter Head eject button had been eliminated. Both the units when required were used in a similar manner.
This flash Unit Y outfit was very popular, and can be found quite often on the open marketplace. It ceased production in 1956 with the introduction of the new Canon Model VT and its plethora of new accessories. A bayonet type PC connection on the right hand side of the new camera replaced the older flash side rails that had been prominent since late 1950."
I used one of these once and the flash is blinding. Check the bulbs first as most have a coloured spot on the top (not sure of the colour) but if it has changed from the original colour it can explode...I think
goamules
Well-known
Wow, thanks for all this excellent information. I'll have to see if the micro-sync settings are included, but they may be, the flash is coming complete in original box.
So I need a 22.5 battery, and a capacitor. I don't need the extension, correct?
So I need a 22.5 battery, and a capacitor. I don't need the extension, correct?
John Shriver
Well-known
I think the 22.5V version is more common. You want an Eveready 412 battery, which also has the standardized NEDA number of 215.
You need to replace the capacitor, as it will certainly be electrically leaky, and will kill the expensive battery in a few days (they are in parallel).
The capacitor is 200 microfarads at 25 volts, electrolytic. You won't find it in the same form factor, but there's a screw you can put one lead around, and the other lead needs to touch the end of the battery.
However, the running costs of the penlight version would be cheaper, just four AA cells.
What you may find a little frustrating is finding old-stock FP26B or 6B flashbulbs at a reasonable price. Yeah, you can use 25B or 5B "press" bulbs, but since they are fast-peak you can only use them at longer shutter speeds. But either one packs a wallop of light. Much more light than most electronic flashes.
Cheaper yet is to get the adapter to the "midget" M3B bulbs, which pack the power of the 5B, but are much more common and cheap. They are still "fast peak", so you're stuck with long shutter speeds.
The micro-sync setting depends on bulb type, camera model, camera serial number, battery type, and shutter speed. Very annoying.
You need to replace the capacitor, as it will certainly be electrically leaky, and will kill the expensive battery in a few days (they are in parallel).
The capacitor is 200 microfarads at 25 volts, electrolytic. You won't find it in the same form factor, but there's a screw you can put one lead around, and the other lead needs to touch the end of the battery.
However, the running costs of the penlight version would be cheaper, just four AA cells.
What you may find a little frustrating is finding old-stock FP26B or 6B flashbulbs at a reasonable price. Yeah, you can use 25B or 5B "press" bulbs, but since they are fast-peak you can only use them at longer shutter speeds. But either one packs a wallop of light. Much more light than most electronic flashes.
Cheaper yet is to get the adapter to the "midget" M3B bulbs, which pack the power of the 5B, but are much more common and cheap. They are still "fast peak", so you're stuck with long shutter speeds.
The micro-sync setting depends on bulb type, camera model, camera serial number, battery type, and shutter speed. Very annoying.
goamules
Well-known
Doggy, I thought wetplate was complicated! As a former electronics technician and then engineer, I should be able to make this flash work! A goal for 2010....
goamules
Well-known
I received the flash, it's the model with the 22.5v and capacitor. Shucks. What I can't figure out is how 6v (4 AA batteries) can fire the thing, when you use a 22.5v for the other model. I don't think the AA battery model even uses a capacitor. Maybe I can make a AA carrier somehow. Will that indeed fire the flash properly? (The manual shows ten, (10) different power options!).
John Shriver
Well-known
You can also fire it with three D cells, if you get the extension cap.
It takes very little electricity to get a flashbulb going. The battery/capacitor system makes it more reliable, mostly. Can zot through a slightly dirty contact.
Kodak used to make a "Generator Flashgun". You spin a knob that spins a DC generator (permag motor) that charges a capacitor. Cute, works fine. Bulky and heavy, however.
Lots of cheap flashguns used one or two AA or C cells.
It takes very little electricity to get a flashbulb going. The battery/capacitor system makes it more reliable, mostly. Can zot through a slightly dirty contact.
Kodak used to make a "Generator Flashgun". You spin a knob that spins a DC generator (permag motor) that charges a capacitor. Cute, works fine. Bulky and heavy, however.
Lots of cheap flashguns used one or two AA or C cells.
goamules
Well-known
Thanks John. I'm also thinking the various voltages and use of caps is because of different current capacity. I think I'm going to gerry rig 4AAs into the form factor of the current 22.4v/cap carrier. An aluminum tube and some putty or such might work.
SushiSteve
Newbie
Time to dust off this thread, I think. After lucking into a beautiful Canon IV sb and a flash Unit Y with capacitor/22.5 volt battery pack, I would like to add a little bit of information and ask a question.
With a M type flash bulb adapter, fortunately you can trigger a smaller bulb with only a D cell battery loaded. Although the manual states that a D cell battery can be used to trigger the flash, this doesn't work for larger bulbs like the GE #5-you will need a 22.5 volt or penlight pack for that.
I'm thinking to use the old capacitator and 22.5 volt battery, but store them separate unless I'm using them to avoid running the battery down too much.
Is there a way to test the leakiness of a capacitator?
With a M type flash bulb adapter, fortunately you can trigger a smaller bulb with only a D cell battery loaded. Although the manual states that a D cell battery can be used to trigger the flash, this doesn't work for larger bulbs like the GE #5-you will need a 22.5 volt or penlight pack for that.
I'm thinking to use the old capacitator and 22.5 volt battery, but store them separate unless I'm using them to avoid running the battery down too much.
Is there a way to test the leakiness of a capacitator?
John Shriver
Well-known
I think you can safely assume that any original Canon flash capacitor is too leaky to use, and needs replacing. Jury-rigging connections is necessary, since you won't find one in the battery form factor.
goamules
Well-known
Yeah, I researched using my flash a while, saw where they sell a 22V battery, but decided I didn't want to mess with it because of the 50 year old capacitor.
However, if you figure out a method I'm not afraid to use a soldering iron....
I just didn't want to make this a primary project, when I have so many. But it would be nice to shoot flashes once in a while.
It seems strange you need a 22V battery and a capacitor, when a Speed Graphic flashgun runs on just a couple C cells if I recall....
However, if you figure out a method I'm not afraid to use a soldering iron....
I just didn't want to make this a primary project, when I have so many. But it would be nice to shoot flashes once in a while.
It seems strange you need a 22V battery and a capacitor, when a Speed Graphic flashgun runs on just a couple C cells if I recall....
SushiSteve
Newbie
Yeah, I'm guessing the GE 5's I've been testing might need a little bit more juice (probably 2+ C cell batteries) but other brands might go off with a single C. I might stick with using the M3/M5 bulbs with an adapter and C for now.
How quickly would the busted capacitor drain the battery? Would it be safe to pop it in with the battery right before taking the shot and just taking it out after or is the leak that rapid?
historicist
Well-known
I don't know if Canon ones are different, but none of the Nikon bulb flashes I had in the past needed the capacitor replaced, and I could leave the battery in without any drain problems.
Bart-K
Member
Hi,
I have also recently won a model Y with the capacitor. Getting it to work actually proved not to be too difficult. I ordered a replacement battery from "batterijcentrale.nl" (a dutch site), cost me about 12 euros. I got this one: http://www.ikzoekeenbatterij.nl/proddetail.php?prod=GE107808
This battery was actually slightly too big to fit in the flash-compartment. But then I found out that this battery actually consists of a much smaller battery, fitted inside this (slightly too large) container. So I just shaved of some plastic from the outer container until the whole thing would fit inside the flash nicely. I tested my capacitor using a capacitor-tester on my multimeter, and the capacitor was in perfect working order. So take statements like "The capacitor is too old and will certainly be dead" with a grain of salt.
I also bought a "FLASH BULB ADAPTOR for PF1 in BC flash unit" from seller "vcl1964" on ebay so I could use the small flash bulbs which are much easier to find. I believe this ebay-seller regularly has these adapters for sale. Cost was about 7 GBP including P&P. Finally got some bullbs of a local auctioning-site for a few euro's. Result: a working flash!
By the way: the light from these old flashbulbs puts any modern flash to shame. Holy cow! So one advice: don't look into the flash! You will regret it.
I have also recently won a model Y with the capacitor. Getting it to work actually proved not to be too difficult. I ordered a replacement battery from "batterijcentrale.nl" (a dutch site), cost me about 12 euros. I got this one: http://www.ikzoekeenbatterij.nl/proddetail.php?prod=GE107808
This battery was actually slightly too big to fit in the flash-compartment. But then I found out that this battery actually consists of a much smaller battery, fitted inside this (slightly too large) container. So I just shaved of some plastic from the outer container until the whole thing would fit inside the flash nicely. I tested my capacitor using a capacitor-tester on my multimeter, and the capacitor was in perfect working order. So take statements like "The capacitor is too old and will certainly be dead" with a grain of salt.
I also bought a "FLASH BULB ADAPTOR for PF1 in BC flash unit" from seller "vcl1964" on ebay so I could use the small flash bulbs which are much easier to find. I believe this ebay-seller regularly has these adapters for sale. Cost was about 7 GBP including P&P. Finally got some bullbs of a local auctioning-site for a few euro's. Result: a working flash!
By the way: the light from these old flashbulbs puts any modern flash to shame. Holy cow! So one advice: don't look into the flash! You will regret it.
SushiSteve
Newbie
Hi,
By the way: the light from these old flashbulbs puts any modern flash to shame. Holy cow! So one advice: don't look into the flash! You will regret it.
I feel bad for the eyes of my friends and family once I get this up and running!
It's amazing how complicated using a flash bulb can be, calculating distance and aperature from guide numbers based on the type of film and camera, using the right color bulb for black and white or color film.
goamules
Well-known
I'm with you, I think I'm going to at least try a battery option with my old capacitor. What's the worse that could happen? No flash, or an out of sync picture. But that's easier than rigging up a bunch of stuff and then doing the same thing.
Just so you know, here are the battery options out of my 1950s Model Y package. Just 10 to choose from!
Just so you know, here are the battery options out of my 1950s Model Y package. Just 10 to choose from!
dexdog
Veteran
I have not found any problems with the capacitors in either the Canon Y or Type V flashes. Both appear to be fine, charge up quickly and fire the bulb, no problem. Ya know, those type 25 bulbs are waay bright!
Also, the bulb flash that came with my Nikon SP had a capacitor that worked well, too.
Also, the bulb flash that came with my Nikon SP had a capacitor that worked well, too.
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goamules
Well-known
Well I finally got the AA Battery pack, and fired off my first M3 flashbulb. Bright!
John Shriver
Well-known
Yeah, and the M3 is a pipsqueak as flashbulbs go. In terms of power, flashbulbs put most electronic flashes to shame!
As for the capacitors, a leaky one won't prevent the flash from firing. But your pricey 22.5 volt battery will die quickly, as it's in parallel with the (leaky) capacitor.
As for the capacitors, a leaky one won't prevent the flash from firing. But your pricey 22.5 volt battery will die quickly, as it's in parallel with the (leaky) capacitor.
goamules
Well-known
That's why I traded that type for the AA, penlight battery version. Now it's just about having flashbulbs.