Safe to remove those two front screws on an M-body?

[Pirate]

On the front of an M-body, the two body screws next to the self-timer... Is it safe to take them out without disturbing anything??

I want to make a finger grip from wood and mount it using longer screws at those two locations.

What do you think?? It's a small project I'll be starting next week.

I emailed Youxin about using those screw holes but have not heard back from him yet on if they are safe to remove, so I'm mentioning it here, and to get ideas/suggestions on my project.

 

[Phil_F_NM]

No.
Leica would have left them out if they were not necessary. The camera is spartan enough.
At least one of those screws holds in the self timer and they are not load bearing at all. They are extremely fine thread pitch and narrow. You'll never be able to hang anything or use them to support any other part. A longer screw will also tend to warp the case when force is applied to it as happens after years of a strap tugging on the lugs which widen the mounting holes in the body.
the only way to make a grip without permanently gluing or drastically modifying the camera is to use the tripod thread in the bottom.

Phil Forrest

 

[Pirate]

Darn.

Well, thanks for telling me before I bodged something awful like.

Ok, I'll make a Plan B and go for that.

 

[Pirate]

What if you take off the self timer arm and use that to secure down a finger grip?

I think that could be done.

 

[sepiareverb]

Use the tripod socket. I asked Sherry this same question when trying to get a grip on my M5, she said use the tripod socket.

 

[Pirate]

Just got a letter back from Youxin, thought I'd post it since I really want to make this project work.

"Chris,
It won't hurt anything. However, the longer screws must be in correct length, if they are too short, you can't screw in, if they are too long, they may scratch film. I have never heard of a hand grip attached by body screw. Hand grip shoud be attached by tripod screw on the bottom plate. If the screws are supplied with the hand grip kit, then they might be ok.
Regards,
Youxin"

I've been doing some reading through the M-body repair manual and now know what I'm looking at inside the body where these two screws go. I'm going to buy a beater body from KEH and try this grip idea on that before I use my beloved M3 or M4, and I'm going to be very careful. If it works, great, if not, no harm done, I'll put things back and just have another M-body in my cache.

Just wanted to share my ideas and hopes here with everyone.

 

[Phil_F_NM]

I correct myself, one anchors the self-timer, the other regulates the reset lever for the film counter.

Simply removing the self timer may not work as it's an integral part of the shutter mechanism in bodies in which it was supplied.

As Youxin says, you'll scratch the emulsion if the nut that you use for an anchor is too deep.

I know I'm a curmudgeon on this topic but I get hung up on details often and after failure or arriving at a point that just stops the project altogether, I see the big picture.

What you want to do is hold the camera by a grip held on the body by two fine thread machine screws that are each less than 2cm long. The width of these screws is less than the width of the graphite in a wooden pencil. If you put only an inch/pound of force or so against these screws they will bend or the body will bend.

Wouldn't just getting a Leica or GMP grip be sufficient instead of warping and rendering a perfectly fine M body holga-like with light leaks?

Again, I'm sorry but I think that Leica did a fantastic job at building the M and I personally can't stand it when a working camera becomes non-working because of ideas like this. I'm guilty of it many times over myself which is why I recommend against it.

Phil Forrest

 

[DNG]

Use the tripod socket. I asked Sherry this same question when trying to get a grip on my M5, she said use the tripod socket.

OT:
Does Sherry modify an "M" grip for the M5? or does someone make one?
I sure would like one for Bubba 🙂

 

[CSG123]

Would it not be easier just to get a proper, tripod mounted grip, Pirate?

 

[Landshark]

I seriously doubt the self timer is part of the shutter mechanism. They are usually just a small clockwork mechanism with a small arm that moves the shutter release shaft downward.
If the self timer is removed, it would give a 3-4mm hole in the body and it may be possible to mount a grip from the inside and leave the other two screws alone.

 

[Phil_F_NM]

One would think that the self-timer is just that but when my self-timer on my M4 failed, I called Sherry about it and she said that it's one of two problems. One was that I needed a new self-timer mechanism, the other was that I would need a new shutter clockwork. It was the former problem that I had. I asked her if I could just have the self timer removed or disabled further and she said "no." Separating the two is not just as simple as removing a few pieces. I've had my M4 apart down to the shutter and clockwork 9 times & can say that is absolutely the case, at least with my camera.

Phil Forrest

 

[Richard G]

Tiny screws. I agree with Phil. Don't do it.

 

[Pirate]

I won't ruin an M-body, that's for sure. I want to take one apart and really see for myself, and then maybe work on a way for this to work, so no worries about hurting anything. I just think there should be a way to make a small grip that doesn't use the tripod socket.

 

[Ronald M]

Buy an M grip from Photo Equipmant Corp and remove the grip itself from the base/tripod hole mounting with the two screws. You now have the hard part done and all that is left is to carve the grip.

I would make a mock up from Ivory soap to test finger groove debth and spacing and the slant from top to bottom. Look at Rapid Winder com for Toms grip to use as a model. His is probably perfect for his hand.

Cut out the outside dimensions with a saw, round the corners with a file, then use a half round file to make the finger grooves same as soap mock up.

Maybe modeling clay would be better or to use a pre- mock up.

Start with course files and work down to fine then sandpaper. Tung oil finish.

 

[Pirate]

That's about the way I had planned to do the build of it. I'll check out the PEC grip, I've not heard of them before. Thanks.

 

[Phil_F_NM]

You can see the depth and size of the machine screw which protrudes into the film take-up chamber by just taking the bottom plate of the camera off.
If you want to make a grip that doesn't use the tripod socket, a better way would be to use epoxy. You'd have to remove the vulcanite where the grip would be to allow the adhesive to stick to the camera.
Another option would be to find an identical M bottom plate and modify the plate itself with the grip built in. This will have a tendency to bend the plate so you'd have to reinforce it with a strip of steel.

Phil Forrest

 

[Frankie]

I want to make a finger grip from wood and mount it using longer screws at those two locations.

A simpler and far less expensive way is to use an L-bracket common in woodworking. Use one end for the tripod screw and the other end for mounting any shape hand grip. Customize the lengths of course.

I made one long ago using a stainless steel L-bracket (79 cents).