Dwayneb9584
Well-known
Hello all,
I've been shooting film for a while but never developed it myself. I really want to be able to develop my own film for various reasons. Save money from having the lab do it, have a better understanding of film development, share the skill with others if interested, sense of wonder waiting for the finished product, etc. I am currently shooting with Ilford HP5 400, I found a kit by Paterson to start with that has a real, tank, and everything I need.
I am a bit concerned about the chemicals. I wanted to know if I can just pour them back into a safe container and reuse them instead of disposing of them. If so how many runs will it give me. I'm also not sure if using recycled film will effect the quality of the negative for later processing. What I plan to get so far is a Paterson kit, and changing back. I'm just not sure exactly which brand chemicals to buy. I know I'm going to need (Developer, stop bath, and Fixer). What brands would you all recommend or which route do you think I should go. I am still doing tons of research but just wanted the RFF support and take on it.
Many Thanks,
Dwayne
I've been shooting film for a while but never developed it myself. I really want to be able to develop my own film for various reasons. Save money from having the lab do it, have a better understanding of film development, share the skill with others if interested, sense of wonder waiting for the finished product, etc. I am currently shooting with Ilford HP5 400, I found a kit by Paterson to start with that has a real, tank, and everything I need.
I am a bit concerned about the chemicals. I wanted to know if I can just pour them back into a safe container and reuse them instead of disposing of them. If so how many runs will it give me. I'm also not sure if using recycled film will effect the quality of the negative for later processing. What I plan to get so far is a Paterson kit, and changing back. I'm just not sure exactly which brand chemicals to buy. I know I'm going to need (Developer, stop bath, and Fixer). What brands would you all recommend or which route do you think I should go. I am still doing tons of research but just wanted the RFF support and take on it.
Many Thanks,
Dwayne
JayGannon
Well-known
Well with the chems do you live in a big city or rural?
If in a city theres no real problem with flushing the developer. The fixer I would keep and dispose at the local dump/hazmat centre.
Most developers work best as one shot without resuse, when reusing developers you get into awkward calculations about how much time you hae to add and how the reduced strength will effect your film. When starting out use one shot it makes life easier and easier to get used to developing.
As to developers, I would go with one of the staples, Xtol, ID-11, D-76 are all easy to work with. For a stop bath ypu can use water, no actual chemical is really nessesary. And for fixer I use Ilford Rapid Fix.
Watch some of the videos on youtube and you'll get a feel for loading the film etc. I would find an old roll of really cheap film that has nothing on it yet and use it to practise loading your reels in the daylight before trying to do it in the dark. After a while it becomes muscle memory.
Above all have fun with it, I would reccomend trying to stick with one film type and one developer for a long as you can, keep a lof/spreadsheet of every roll you develop and then you can change things around to find the compination of time, agitation etc that suits you just perfect. I keep mine on a Google Spreadsheet so that I can record it wherever I am when Im not at home. Tis is what mine looks like...
Film Development Log by TheFactory21, on Flickr
Welcome to the work of developing!
If in a city theres no real problem with flushing the developer. The fixer I would keep and dispose at the local dump/hazmat centre.
Most developers work best as one shot without resuse, when reusing developers you get into awkward calculations about how much time you hae to add and how the reduced strength will effect your film. When starting out use one shot it makes life easier and easier to get used to developing.
As to developers, I would go with one of the staples, Xtol, ID-11, D-76 are all easy to work with. For a stop bath ypu can use water, no actual chemical is really nessesary. And for fixer I use Ilford Rapid Fix.
Watch some of the videos on youtube and you'll get a feel for loading the film etc. I would find an old roll of really cheap film that has nothing on it yet and use it to practise loading your reels in the daylight before trying to do it in the dark. After a while it becomes muscle memory.
Above all have fun with it, I would reccomend trying to stick with one film type and one developer for a long as you can, keep a lof/spreadsheet of every roll you develop and then you can change things around to find the compination of time, agitation etc that suits you just perfect. I keep mine on a Google Spreadsheet so that I can record it wherever I am when Im not at home. Tis is what mine looks like...
Film Development Log by TheFactory21, on Flickr
Welcome to the work of developing!
Dwayneb9584
Well-known
(JayGannon) Thanks for the helpful information. I live in the suburbs in Long Island NY and work in NYC which is about 13miles away. I'll do some research on those chemicals. The Ilford Rapid Fix was one of the chemicals on my list. I'm still doing some research for developer and I'm considering Ilford brand or Afga Rodinal. I usually shoot just two 35mm films which are Ilford HP5 400, delta 100, or neopan 400. I've been shooting lately with the Ilford HP5 as it's on sale. Creating a chart to stay organized is another great idea. Thanks much.
Lflex
Lflex
One shot inexpensive devlopers such as Rodinal or HC-110 are great for beginners. For 400 ISO I'd prefer the latter, but both are fine.
I second the suggestions to stick with one film, use plain water for stop bath, and keep notes.
I second the suggestions to stick with one film, use plain water for stop bath, and keep notes.
Dwayneb9584
Well-known
Thanks Lflex for the help. But wouldn't using stop bath give me more consistent results for my negatives. I've also read that using vinegar diluted with water can work as a stop bath. I just want to have the same results every time that's all. Also the Kodak HC-110 seem like something I can work with. Can this be poured down the train or toilet without harm? Also can stop bath be poured down the drain without harm or does this have to be recycled like fixer?
JayGannon
Well-known
Theres no difference between water and stop bath. Was tested a few years back and exactly the same results with both. Being in the city you can pour most commercially available developers as the waste water will be processed at a plant. Same for stop.
Haigh
Gary Haigh
Great advice from the above posts which I read swiftly ( back from Italy and still jet lagged but had to mention that anyway) and they contain excellent tips. I would add if it has not been mentioned: limit your variables, by which I mean keep developer temperature the same each time you process your films- stop bath and fixer temperatures are not so critical. Keep film prewash the same each time: I do very diluted Ilford wetting agent 1 drop to 300 mls (cc) 0f Ridinal and never more than a few gentlle revolutions the let tank stay stationary for 1 minute. For Rodinal which I always use, distilled water which seems necessary to avoid possible reactions with minerals in local water supply. One pint overlooked sometimes with Rodinal: makers advise using 10 mls (cc) per roll of 35mm film or 120 film ( same film area) so that in a five reel tank I only process 3 rolls of 35mm film. I put in an empty reel above the 3 loaded reels to avoid "streaming" which may give uneven processing. Sorry about the detail. I have been doing this for so long it now seems even to me to be complex which it isn't, it is just that I do it without out thinking about it. It can actually be fun, or if it isn't, it can be quite meditative. Hope this helps and I apologise for being half asleep after two long flights.
Dwayneb9584
Well-known
(Haigh) Thanks for the detailed information, I plan to get a 2 to 3 reel tank to process my negatives. Their seems to be so many techniques in processing film. I can't wait to experiment with my first test roll. I plan to do it around next week. I just want to do some more research first, figure out the right chemicals so I can use and buy them for a long time and check out some more You Tube examples.
sreed2006
Well-known
One web site that you might find useful until you finally settle in on a routine is "The Massive Dev Chart." Pick a Black and White film, a developer, and it has information on how to use the developer with the film. I've found it useful.
http://www.digitaltruth.com/devchart.php
http://www.digitaltruth.com/devchart.php
Dwayneb9584
Well-known
(sreed2006) Thanks. This is really good information here.
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gb hill
Veteran
The nice thing about HC-110 is that you can use it "one shot" IOW get a syrenge & pull enough out of the bottle to do however many rolls you plan on dev. Rodinal can be done the same way. HC110 concentrate will last for years. Powdered developers like D-76 once opened & mixed start to deteroiate quickly, but if you plan to shoot a lot then it wont matter. Any developer & stop should be poured out after one time. Fixer can be reused.
Here is a good read for using HC-110
http://www.mironchuk.com/hc-110.html
Here is a good read for using HC-110
http://www.mironchuk.com/hc-110.html
paulfish4570
Veteran
I am still a newby at this, too. One trick I learned from one of the friendly folks here is to rewind your roll of film onto the cassette against the curl as it unrolled from the cassette, hold for a few seconds, then let unwind. This will greatly relax the original curl and make it much easier to spool. This is something you can practice in light with an old roll of negatives. If all of your lab-processed negs are cut into strips, go shoot another roll of inexpensive color, get it processed BUT UNCUT, then use this as your practice roll. Little hints like this will make your first few rolls go so much more smoothly ...
Fawley
Well-known
Why is it that Ilford still recommends a stop bath on their web site? I use a stop primarily because it prolongs the life of my fixer, which is after all more expensive than stop bath.
gb hill
Veteran
Probably so you'll buy it!
I know, pretty lame. I been using some Kodak stop bath & when it's gone i'll try using water like everyone suggest. We keep on making suggestions this poor fellow is gonna be so confused he'll never wan't to try developing his own film....just kidding...I think you will enjoy it! Looking forward to seeing the first results!tlitody
Well-known
stop bath will kill development instantly. That means you can leave tank for extended time before fix. If you use water, then you must must fix immeditely because whilst water will wash away excess developer quickly you would need an extended water wash to kill development completely. Maybe 5 minutes and not just a quick wash as is usually given.
Acid fixer also kills developer immediately.
So if you fix without delay then no problems. But if you are pratting about between dev and fix then I would use a stop bath. And if you want to reuse fix, then use a stop bath (non indicator type) otherwise acid developer carryover to fixer will change PH of fixer.
But if you use 1 shot like most people do then its not an issue.
Acid fixer also kills developer immediately.
So if you fix without delay then no problems. But if you are pratting about between dev and fix then I would use a stop bath. And if you want to reuse fix, then use a stop bath (non indicator type) otherwise acid developer carryover to fixer will change PH of fixer.
But if you use 1 shot like most people do then its not an issue.
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Dwayneb9584
Well-known
gb hill that was funny lol. I think I'm gonna go with a stop bath to prolong the life of my negatives. I sorta want to go by the book (for the lack of a better word). As I grown with my development skill and experiment I will of course do different things. I just want to make sure it's going to be done right I guess.
JayGannon
Well-known
damien.murphy
Damien
Hi Dwayne,
Good luck with your first few rolls. In addition to the above, I would add the following, based on my own personal experience:
- sacrifice a roll of unexposed film and practice loading the reel in daylight ad nauseum before attempting to do it in the changing bag
- ensure zips on changing bag are face down. I have gotten light leaks in the past when being sloppy with my changing bag routine
- make sure reels are COMPLETELY and bone dry. This will save you many torturous film-loading experiences
- Standardise on a temperature. For most people 20 degrees is best, as its closest to normal non-winter room temperature
- Strive for a development setup where time is closer to 10 minutes than 5. This aids consistency of agitation and evenness of development
- Settle on a developer, and dilution and stick to it, unless you have good reason to change.
- Do not be tempted to over-agitate. Pick an agitation routine before you develop, and stick to it.
- Water as stop is fine. I used to use several water washes after the development stage, and this worked out fine. Water will take longer to stop development than a stop bath, so naturally is more effective when your development times are longer, and the additional time taken by a water stop bath to halt development, is not as significant as at shorter development times.
- Using wetting agent in the final wash(es) after fixing proved problematic for me, and found it much better not to put wetting agent in the final wash, but rather to mix a drop or two in a spray bottle of water, which I would saturate the negs with after I hung them up to dry
- Filtered water works best, if possible, with any hardness in your water turning up as chalky water spots on your dry negs.
Consistency is king when it comes to film developing, and you should be firm with yourself that you stick to your regime.
Lastly, if you have not bought any kit yet, consider reels with bigger film guards. I find the Paterson reels quite sub-standard in this regard, but many people have long-learned how to cope with them. The film guards on my current reels are much bigger, making film-loading a doddle, and for all intents and purposes the reels themselves are the same size as the Paterson ones, and fit in the Paterson tanks.
Good luck with your first few rolls. In addition to the above, I would add the following, based on my own personal experience:
- sacrifice a roll of unexposed film and practice loading the reel in daylight ad nauseum before attempting to do it in the changing bag
- ensure zips on changing bag are face down. I have gotten light leaks in the past when being sloppy with my changing bag routine
- make sure reels are COMPLETELY and bone dry. This will save you many torturous film-loading experiences
- Standardise on a temperature. For most people 20 degrees is best, as its closest to normal non-winter room temperature
- Strive for a development setup where time is closer to 10 minutes than 5. This aids consistency of agitation and evenness of development
- Settle on a developer, and dilution and stick to it, unless you have good reason to change.
- Do not be tempted to over-agitate. Pick an agitation routine before you develop, and stick to it.
- Water as stop is fine. I used to use several water washes after the development stage, and this worked out fine. Water will take longer to stop development than a stop bath, so naturally is more effective when your development times are longer, and the additional time taken by a water stop bath to halt development, is not as significant as at shorter development times.
- Using wetting agent in the final wash(es) after fixing proved problematic for me, and found it much better not to put wetting agent in the final wash, but rather to mix a drop or two in a spray bottle of water, which I would saturate the negs with after I hung them up to dry
- Filtered water works best, if possible, with any hardness in your water turning up as chalky water spots on your dry negs.
Consistency is king when it comes to film developing, and you should be firm with yourself that you stick to your regime.
Lastly, if you have not bought any kit yet, consider reels with bigger film guards. I find the Paterson reels quite sub-standard in this regard, but many people have long-learned how to cope with them. The film guards on my current reels are much bigger, making film-loading a doddle, and for all intents and purposes the reels themselves are the same size as the Paterson ones, and fit in the Paterson tanks.
shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
Dwayne, using a stop-bath (or not) will not affect the longevity of your negatives. It will prolong the useful lifespan of the fixer. But I never re-use fixer for more than 10 rolls (equivalent 35mm) of negatives anyways. So it doesn't matter for me.
I use water because I like to get the most details in my highlights (gradual ceasing of developer activity). In general I don't like high contrast negative because it's more difficult to print in the darkroom.
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Dwayneb9584
Well-known
(damien murphy, shdowfox) you guys rock, thanks. This morning I went to B&H to talk to the rep in the chemistry department. He was very helpful as I told him what I was doing. He also recommended HC-110 and a Kodak Kodafix Solution fixer. He said using water as a stop bath was also fine. I completely forgot about wetting agent. Any recommendations for this?
As for the reels he also recommended these reels that look similar to the Paterson ones but were much bulkier and he said it's easier to install the film in. I'm pretty sure it was this http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/253369-REG/Paterson_PTP120_Auto_Load_Adjustable_Reel.html but not sure as I didn't get the name.
I didn't purchase any chemicals yet as I still want some more advice on what to get and still need to do research. But I did buy more film and a new battery for the Ikon.
So far on my list of chemicals are:
Developer: Kodak HC-110
Stop Bath: Water
Fixer: Kodak Kodafix Solution or Recommend something better or better brands
Wetting Agent: Recommend me something
As for the reels he also recommended these reels that look similar to the Paterson ones but were much bulkier and he said it's easier to install the film in. I'm pretty sure it was this http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/253369-REG/Paterson_PTP120_Auto_Load_Adjustable_Reel.html but not sure as I didn't get the name.
I didn't purchase any chemicals yet as I still want some more advice on what to get and still need to do research. But I did buy more film and a new battery for the Ikon.
So far on my list of chemicals are:
Developer: Kodak HC-110
Stop Bath: Water
Fixer: Kodak Kodafix Solution or Recommend something better or better brands
Wetting Agent: Recommend me something