Flattest 35mm 400 asa film?

[johannielscom]

Air humidity has a HUGE effect on film flatness. I believe it was Keith who pointed out in one of his recent 'World Trip' posts that scanning film at different times of the day made a huge difference.

Anybody remember the specifics? (Oh, wish the grey matter would also store important stuff for me to remember😉)

 

[tj01]

I can't appreciate the comments regarding tri-x. It's about the only film I use, in both 120 and 35mm.
Mine negs are flat and flush to the surface of the table. Sometimes I need long nails to lift them up. Therefore I can't understand the fuss about it.
1. After final rinse with Ilford wetting agent, leave for dry overnight.
2. Cut and sleeve in Printfile
3. File in binder on the last page, that way the weight of other negs and contact sheet will keep it flat.
4. Once I get the chance to contact print, I remove and lay them out. Flat after 2-3 days.

Perhaps sleeving them helps.
I've no experience with other films.

 

[Ezzie]

Count out TMAX400 (at least in 120) too, IME it curls quite a lot. I try to flatten it under a stack of books, but not much luck so far.

 

[M like Leica M6]

So, the same films dry flat or become curly. We hear that for almost every film available.

So it must have something to do with how the films are treated.

How do you guys dry the films?

 

[mgd711]

So it must have something to do with how the films are treated.

How do you guys dry the films?

My films are hung in the darkroom with a weighted clip on the bottom.

In the heat here the films are dry as soon as 3 hours after hanging.

I use Kodafix and films are washed in a Premier Aqua Vac and then dumped in Photoflo for 1 minute.

 

[paulfish4570]

I hang mine with clip at bottom for weight. Kodafix fixer. Is that a hardening kind? I use a 25-30 minute running water rinse. Maybe I don't need the fixer ...
My Tri-X/Arista Premium 400 has a minor longitudinal curl after sitting between books for a couple or three days. They are almost flat in the Epson 4490 film trays, and the scans look fine.
Maybe I should stop complaining.
I do think I will try an Ilford product or two. Their rebadged Kentmere 400 dried flat as a flitter for me.
And boy do I need to buy some notebook-type sleeves ...

 

[mgd711]

I hang mine with clip at bottom for weight. Kodafix fixer. Is that a hardening kind? I use a 25-30 minute running water rinse.

That’s a l o n g wash time. I give my film 7 minutes in the Aqua Vac, previously it was 10 minutes with letting the tank fill up and dump the water routine.

EDIT... I also used the Ilford washing method, took a while to find as I couldn’t remember what it was called 🙂


Kodafix is a hardening type fixer. I’ve never heard of people not using fixer but there was a post here today (the M7 in Hong Kong thread, I think) where someone said they didn’t use fixer. Somebody else will surely enlighten us...

And boy do I need to buy some notebook-type sleeves ...

For storage of cut 35mm film I use these Printfiles, get’s dam expensive by the time they are shipped over to the Philippines but there is nothing available locally.

 

[paulfish4570]

Thanks for the file tip, Mike.
As for the rinse time, I got that from some workflow data on one of the boards; I also remember that was the standard wash time 30 years ago for tri-x in the photo lab at a newspaper where I worked ...

 

[M like Leica M6]

So, we might try to find out rules when and how films of which manufacturer will dry flat or when they will curl....

I remember that when I used a drying cabinet a long time ago every film curled. The higher the temperature the worse...

Today I dry my films in a shower cubicle at room temperature, and none of them curls excessively. It works with HP5, Tri-X, Tmax, Efke 820, Foma 100, Acros 100.

 

[M like Leica M6]

Thanks for the file tip, Mike.
As for the rinse time, I got that from some workflow data on one of the boards; I also remember that was the standard wash time 30 years ago for tri-x in the photo lab at a newspaper where I worked ...

I prefer the Ilford washing method for several reasons:

#1: I keep some canisters with tap water in my darkroom, at room temperature. Developer, stop bath, fixer and rinse water have the same temperature. Especially in winter there is no risk for the films. The temperature of tap water is never constant.

#2: It is guaranteed that the films are really clean, and that means according to archival standards.

#3: It saves huge amounts of water.

#4: It is a no-brainer.


And here it is, the Ilford washing method for films:

- Water at 20-25° C is fine. (I keep a big canister with tap water in the darkroom)
- Fill the tank with water and empty it. Make sure that whenever you empty the tank it is really emptied and that only a minimum amount of the previous bath is left in the tank.
- Fill the tank with water and invert 5 times, then just wait 5 minutes.
- Empty the tank, fill it with water, and invert 10 times, then just wait 5 minutes.
- Empty the tank, fill it with water, and invert 20 times, then just wait 5 minutes.
- Empty the tank, you have a perfectly washed film now. Just dry it as ususal.

 

[btgc]

Paul, [how] do you flatten developed film?

 

[J. Borger]

I prefer the Ilford washing method for several reasons:
And here it is, the Ilford washing method for films:

- Water at 20-25° C is fine. (I keep a big canister with tap water in the darkroom)
- Fill the tank with water and empty it. Make sure that whenever you empty the tank it is really emptied and that only a minimum amount of the previous bath is left in the tank.
- Fill the tank with water and invert 5 times, then just wait 5 minutes.
- Empty the tank, fill it with water, and invert 10 times, then just wait 5 minutes.
- Empty the tank, fill it with water, and invert 20 times, then just wait 5 minutes.
- Empty the tank, you have a perfectly washed film now. Just dry it as ususal.

The 5 minutes waite everytime is completely is new to me.
Never read that in the Ilford instruction papers.
I do it the same way but without the 5 minutes waite.

 

[M like Leica M6]

The 5 minutes waite everytime is completely is new to me.
Never read that in the Ilford instruction papers.
I do it the same way but without the 5 minutes waite.

You know what: you are right. Forget my description, I have no idea where I heard that the 5 minutes are necessary.

I just hastily searched for Ilford's official description and found it on several websites as "ilfwash.pdf"

The offical document.

It says clearly:

Clean the tank with the film under running water and
Fill tank with fresh water, turn 5 times
refresh water, turn 10 times
refresh water, turn 20 times
and we have a film washed in archive quality ​

And:

"...the impact of temperature on the results was not as
much as I expected, I found no impact on the results in the temperature range of 20°C to 25°C."​

Now, we all learned something today. And I can now save water AND time 🙄

Thanks for that, J.

 

[btgc]

It says clearly:

Clean the tank with the film under running water and
Fill tank with fresh water, turn 5 times
refresh water, turn 10 times
refresh water, turn 20 times
and we have a film washed in archive quality ​

Sounds very easy. So far I have refilled tank 9-10 times and shaked spool up-down mixed with twirling for couple of minutes each time (I have twirl type tank).

Thanks for reminder, I also learned today!

 

[paulfish4570]

This wash method is a good one. I think I will try with my next roll tonight ...

 

[Thomas-Paris]

This wash method is a good one. I think I will try with my next roll tonight ...

I always use 5, 10, 20, 20 because I sometimes get a little bit of purple tinge left in the water from the first 20 inversions. This is using TMY and TMZ, never seen that with TMX, so maybe TX would be okay...

 

[Tim Gray]

The 5 minutes waite everytime is completely is new to me.
Never read that in the Ilford instruction papers.
I do it the same way but without the 5 minutes waite.

It's not in the Ilford instructions. But quite a bunch of knowledgeable people advise. And some others say it's not necessary. The logic is that since washing is based on diffusion, dilution AND time are key. There's been multiple discussions on this at APUG.

link 1

link 2

Personally, I've added it in because frankly it doesn't really add that much time to my processing cycle - I just go do something else for a bit. It is probably not necessary, but I've never done the tests myself and would rather err on the side of caution.

Every 35mm film I've tried has some long-axis curl when it dries. The couple rolls of 120 I've done did not. While film construction might play a part, I think a lot of it has to do with humidity and drying rates. I've tried several different drying techniques and they all come out the same. I just stick them under some books overnight and it sorts itself out.