M6 film advance tight

C

chrispiper

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I noticed it on three rolls today and on intermittent rolls in the past - as I shoot through the roll and advance the film, sometimes it gets very tight on winding, to the point where I feel like it will tear the sprockets if I keep going. I tend to just stop shooting the roll and rewind and try a fresh roll but today it happened on three straight rolls (two different types of film). It's not every roll but enough that it's starting to make me wonder if something's up. I've had the camera about a year and have had little problem with it. I doubt it's ever had a CLA and doesn't seem to need it (no light leaks, nice VF, shutter timings are all good, etc) so I'd prefer not to spend the money if it's not necessary.

Is it just the film, i.e. bad rolls that aren't rolled evenly? Something maybe I'm doing? A "M6 thing" that I don't know about yet?

Thanks,
Chris
 
Shouldn't be happening. If I were the tech, I'd check:

- is the takeup spool tight enough? It has to be tight enough to wind the film tightly, but slip enough to accommodate the increasing winding diameter. Probably better to be a bit tight, rather than loose

....Vick
 
Since it's an intermittent thing, is this worth the time/money to send it to a tech? Can they actually test something or would they just wind through a few rolls and say "seems fine to me"?
 
found this thread: http://photo.net/leica-rangefinders-forum/00TbNO?start=10

>>
The film advance becomes tighter and tighter as I get into the last half of a roll of (36 exposure) film. It is particularly noticable after frame 20. The expert at the camera store had not come across such a problem and couldn't explain it. So we sent the camera in for repair.
<<

and the reply

>>
"The expert at the camera store had not come across such a problem and couldn't explain it."
Anyone at Leica knows this problem, it is always a possibility on M4's, M6's and M7's - on any of the cameras with the offset rewind knobs. It may even be the reason why Leica went back to the slower, but more durable knurled knob of the MP - so food for thought for your next camera purchase.
If the offset rewind knob gets knocked, and it can since it sticks out a little, it can bend the shaft that fits into the top of the film cassette. Depending on how much it has bent, it can cause the jamming you speak of, usually towards the end of the roll. It is a relatively expensive repair - over $500.
<<

Does this seem to be the likely culprit?
 
You could easily run an experiment to see. Run a roll of test film and get it to become stiff. Then manually turn the rewind knob and see if the film advance suddenly becomes easier. Then, you will know that it is the rewind knob.

It isn't that complex a mechanism, and probably not that hard to remedy.

Here is a photo:

http://photo.net/leica-rangefinders-forum/00X2Z4


Vick
 
Unless the camera has suffered an impact it is most likely that the slotted washer under the rewind knob is coming loose. As it loosens it rises and presses on the rewind knob, making it tighter and can eventually make it lock up completely. If you take the rewind knob off and take a look, you can see it. A little Loctite (do not use the permanent ones, use the ones that are made to hold but can be released) applied when you tighten it will prevent this from happening again, if this is the cause.

http://web.archive.org/web/20070808...penn.edu/usr/cassidy/leicaslacker/rewind.html

Marty
 
I had a similar experience on my M6 when I got it 10 years ago. And it was only on 36 ex rolls, near the end of the roll. My solution was to roll the rewind knob backwards to make slack on the cassette and then the film would advance much easier, without feeling like you were going to tear thru the sprockets.

For some unknown reason, it fixed it self and doesn't do it anymore. I kinda chalked it up to the rolls being wound too tight. I buy my film in blocks.

Try loosening the film on the cassette and see if it doesn't do the trick.
 
Thanks for the suggestion. I'll run a test roll today and see if the cassette loosening method works before I tear into the mechanism. I'm not averse to a bit of tinkering but usually I like to leave well enough alone unless it's unavoidable.

Thanks again to all for being such a great resource. Where else could I ask such a question on a Tuesday night and have solid answers by the next morning. I resolve to try and respond more often to questions that I can offer help with.

Cheers,
Chris
 
Chris, FWIW -- you may have stopped checking this thread -- if it continues to get worse it may indicate a loosening rewind gear. I had this problem with an M6 TTL a few months back. Initially, rewind got tighter and tighter -- as you describe -- but it got worse until the point at which it jammed. The problem was fixed in a day or two by an excellent UK freelance technician at a cost of GBP75.00 including return carriage.

Whether this is the same problem described by Marty (above) I wouldn't pretend to know, but the I considered the fix relatively cheap at the price and the peace of mind and reliability well worth it.
 
Problem fixed.

First I tried the "loosening the spool" tip to no avail.

Next I took a look at the washers under the rewind knob. Turned out to be a loosened slotted washer. I tightened it up and ran a few sacrificial rolls back and forth and all is well.

Thanks to those who suggested this and a big thanks to Gus Lazzari @ TLC Repair as well. He seconded the recommendation to check the washer and even sent a link to a Photo.net thread where he helped out another M6 owner having the same problem.

As a side note, Gus did a CLA on my M3 last year and turned it from a nice camera to a stunning one. It's a jewel and a joy to shoot. Gus is first class all the way and responds quickly and with enthusiasm. Had I needed to send the M6 in, he'd have gotten the job without a second thought. If you need Leica work, Gus is the man.

Thanks to all ... now back to shooting instead of talking : )

Chris
 
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